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| Same-sex Marriage? |
| Yes for Same-sex Marriage |
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47% |
[ 18 ] |
| Religion out of the Gov't Civil Unions for All |
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13% |
[ 5 ] |
| Same-sex Civil Unions are Okay |
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7% |
[ 3 ] |
| No |
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31% |
[ 12 ] |
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| Total Votes : 38 |
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 Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:36 pm
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Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:57 am
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Rainbowfied Mouse Vice Captain
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Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:58 pm
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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:32 pm
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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:39 pm
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:38 am
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Rainbowfied Mouse Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:04 am
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Drarksupersaiyan RenFlower First off, are you insinuating that homosexuals aren't allowed to be christians, and that any religion that accepts them must be wierd? Plus, are you saying that we shouldn't demand rights for people? Doesn't that go against the whole constitution. That people should say what they believe is right? Are you saying that we shouldn't be fighting to end sexism and racism because we shouldn't ask for more rights? Should people not stand up for their rights when they are wrongly treated? If anything, this puts us on the road to a BETTER democracy, where everyone really is treated equal. He might not be but I am. God is disgusted with homosexuality PERIOD. He sent fire and brimstone destory them because they were going to far. Even though we have proof of God destorying the cities, homo's still deny it. http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee23/atlantis_2025/Sodom_and_Gomorrah.jpg
Let me tell you the story of Sodom and Gomorrah...
Sodomites is a term referring to those who participate in sodomy. This term comes from the belief that God destroyed Sodom for being homosexually perverted. However, this is not right. God wanted to destroy the city (Genesis 18:16,) before the angels that were going to be raped came (Genesis 19.) Even if it were the reason, one has no solid evidence to say so, as this would also have been rape and most likely adultery. With two sins dangling there, and one debatable sin, one can not use it as information against homosexuality. This term, however, does not necessarily refer to homosexuals alone, as it could be heterosexuals who partake in sodomy, if this were the correct use of the term.
If we go back centuries ago between the 1700s and 1800s sodomy referred to nearly any form of sex that was not heterosexual and vaginal in the missionary position with the intention of procreation and not sensation. Slowly, the world threw out some of the terms and now there are only two left, homosexuality, and bestiality. As the majority of the world is heterosexual it's not any wonder than the rest were thrown out.
If we then look at linguistics we'd know that Hebrew does not have a third-gender term. Him can refer to a boy or a girl, none, or both. So the angels that came down, were not necessarily boys or girls, but could be described as "him" because him is an "catch" term referring to all genders, and one at the same time.
Second, who are you to cast condemnation?
Matthew 7:1-5 1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
In other words, don't judge people.
And, my last argument as towards your religious persecution of homosexuality
1st Corinthians 5:12-13 12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”
So, you are not to say all homosexuals are bad [just the ones in church.] Why? Because they are not Christian, so just shrug it off. Which leads to a political position of "They're not all Christians, so I shouldn't make laws banning them because who am I to say they go to hell?"
Collosians 4:5 Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity.
In other words, be kind to those who aren't christian. Casting judgment and saying you'll burn in hell, and Jesus destroyed your people... not the best way for God to see you... he wants people to feel welcomed into His house.
Quote: Well, hate to tell you this, but Satan did do it. He works on temptations and likes to get into people's heads and screw them up. That is why we have homosexuals, bisexuals and whatever the heck pansexuals are. adn how would that make love evil? what gays have isn't love, it's evil and their lost.
Pansexuals are people that are attracted to people regardless of gender.
If you want to go bible, you might want to read Corinthians again and get a clear definition of love (which is provided) and then come back and prove homosexuals do not have that (which they do, and have been proven to have so.) So don't talk about love, when you can't even find a definition that will separate heterosexuals from homosexuals unless it involves procreation (which will end up leading to an infertile couple argument.)
@Both - You certainly have the right to your opinion, but your religious beliefs do not belong in law in a country where we can freely choose our religion. |
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:36 am
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Drarksupersaiyan RenFlower First off, are you insinuating that homosexuals aren't allowed to be christians, and that any religion that accepts them must be wierd? Plus, are you saying that we shouldn't demand rights for people? Doesn't that go against the whole constitution. That people should say what they believe is right? Are you saying that we shouldn't be fighting to end sexism and racism because we shouldn't ask for more rights? Should people not stand up for their rights when they are wrongly treated? If anything, this puts us on the road to a BETTER democracy, where everyone really is treated equal. He might not be but I am. God is disgusted with homosexuality PERIOD. He sent fire and brimstone destory them because they were going to far. Even though we have proof of God destorying the cities, homo's still deny it. http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee23/atlantis_2025/Sodom_and_Gomorrah.jpg
cherrydarlin999 RenFlower If god doesn't like homosexuals, then why the hell did he make them? Please don't give me that free-will crap. People have no control over those hormones at all. Is is really a sin to love? A sin to be attracted to someone? If that someone happens to be of the same sex? Don't say Satan did it, either. That would mean that love is evil. And that goes against the whole frickin' bible. obviously i'm an athiest, but i don't mean to piss anyone off. Well, hate to tell you this, but Satan did do it. He works on temptations and likes to get into people's heads and screw them up. That is why we have homosexuals, bisexuals and whatever the heck pansexuals are. adn how would that make love evil? what gays have isn't love, it's evil and their lost.
And maintaining these personal opinions is certainly a right granted by the 1st Amendment. We have no law stipulating that everyone has to like everyone else, and thank goodness because it would be a frightful tyranny if government had the power to tell us we had to, and even more frightening if they policed it. What concerns me much more is the degree to which you think your religious interpretation ought to be reflected in public policy, particularly as it would come at the detriment of other religious interpretations of the matter, some of them Christian. |
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:44 pm
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Rainbowfied Mouse Drarksupersaiyan RenFlower First off, are you insinuating that homosexuals aren't allowed to be christians, and that any religion that accepts them must be wierd? Plus, are you saying that we shouldn't demand rights for people? Doesn't that go against the whole constitution. That people should say what they believe is right? Are you saying that we shouldn't be fighting to end sexism and racism because we shouldn't ask for more rights? Should people not stand up for their rights when they are wrongly treated? If anything, this puts us on the road to a BETTER democracy, where everyone really is treated equal. He might not be but I am. God is disgusted with homosexuality PERIOD. He sent fire and brimstone destory them because they were going to far. Even though we have proof of God destorying the cities, homo's still deny it. http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee23/atlantis_2025/Sodom_and_Gomorrah.jpg Let me tell you the story of Sodom and Gomorrah... Sodomites is a term referring to those who participate in sodomy. This term comes from the belief that God destroyed Sodom for being homosexually perverted. However, this is not right. God wanted to destroy the city (Genesis 18:16,) before the angels that were going to be raped came (Genesis 19.) Even if it were the reason, one has no solid evidence to say so, as this would also have been rape and most likely adultery. With two sins dangling there, and one debatable sin, one can not use it as information against homosexuality. This term, however, does not necessarily refer to homosexuals alone, as it could be heterosexuals who partake in sodomy, if this were the correct use of the term. If we go back centuries ago between the 1700s and 1800s sodomy referred to nearly any form of sex that was not heterosexual and vaginal in the missionary position with the intention of procreation and not sensation. Slowly, the world threw out some of the terms and now there are only two left, homosexuality, and bestiality. As the majority of the world is heterosexual it's not any wonder than the rest were thrown out. If we then look at linguistics we'd know that Hebrew does not have a third-gender term. Him can refer to a boy or a girl, none, or both. So the angels that came down, were not necessarily boys or girls, but could be described as "him" because him is an "catch" term referring to all genders, and one at the same time. Second, who are you to cast condemnation? Matthew 7:1-5 1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. In other words, don't judge people. And, my last argument as towards your religious persecution of homosexuality 1st Corinthians 5:12-13 12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.” So, you are not to say all homosexuals are bad [just the ones in church.] Why? Because they are not Christian, so just shrug it off. Which leads to a political position of "They're not all Christians, so I shouldn't make laws banning them because who am I to say they go to hell?" Collosians 4:5 Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. In other words, be kind to those who aren't christian. Casting judgment and saying you'll burn in hell, and Jesus destroyed your people... not the best way for God to see you... he wants people to feel welcomed into His house. Quote: Well, hate to tell you this, but Satan did do it. He works on temptations and likes to get into people's heads and screw them up. That is why we have homosexuals, bisexuals and whatever the heck pansexuals are. adn how would that make love evil? what gays have isn't love, it's evil and their lost. Pansexuals are people that are attracted to people regardless of gender. If you want to go bible, you might want to read Corinthians again and get a clear definition of love (which is provided) and then come back and prove homosexuals do not have that (which they do, and have been proven to have so.) So don't talk about love, when you can't even find a definition that will separate heterosexuals from homosexuals unless it involves procreation (which will end up leading to an infertile couple argument.) @Both - You certainly have the right to your opinion, but your religious beliefs do not belong in law in a country where we can freely choose our religion.
I have to admit that you know your facts and for some reason feel respect towards you, but God wants us to warn homosexuals or anyone that is living a life of sin that if their actions continue they will end up in hell. Another thing is that rape is rape and there is no covering it so why should there be any difference. Also what about people who think that homosexuality is wrong? Don't they deserve just as much rights as gays, that they should be able to vote against it to live in a non gay environment instead of having to let things that the majortiy of people think is wrong flood our televisions and society?
I'd also like to ask why should gay's be allowed to sue people for not wanting a gay person to work for them. Why not respect the people who prefer workers of the natural way of love? |
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:51 pm
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:58 pm
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:01 am
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Quote: Also what about people who think that homosexuality is wrong?
They're entitled to their opinion, same as people who don't like salad, blacks, capitalism, or taxes. The same right governs each, the 1st Amendment.
Quote: Don't they deserve just as much rights as gays
Yes, everyone in the US is entitled to equal rights, and your equal rights have been defined and spelled out in numerous laws and fundamental charter documents in the US. . .
Quote: that they should be able to vote against it to live in a non gay environment instead of having to let things that the majortiy of people think is wrong flood our televisions and society?
. . . and that isn't one of them. Your right to self determination ends at telling your neighbors what they have to be. That's when you stop asserting your rights and start infringing on the rights of others. Furthermore, do you know why anything gets on television? That's because people find it entertaining enough to watch, programs that get watched are good grounds for selling advertising, advertisers buy up the time to attract customers, and so customers, informed of the product, shop and make the advertisers money. If the consumer was really so offended by homosexuality, as you say, they would boycott the advertisers, the advertisers would pull ads from the shows, and the shows on TV featuring homosexuality would disappear. This, in and of itself, is market proof that homosexuality is not the reviled issue you insist it is. But, even if you want to go to numbers on the issue, your statement that the majority of people think homosexuality is wrong is factually false. Gallup conducts attitude surveys on this annually, and their most recent findings are that 57% of the public feels homosexuality is an acceptable alternative lifestyle:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/1651/gay-lesbian-rights.aspx
Quote: I'd also like to ask why should gay's be allowed to sue people for not wanting a gay person to work for them.
For the same reason blacks and women should be allowed to sue people for not wanting blacks and women to work with them, employment discrimination. If you wanted to argue that ALL employment discrimination law opens up dangerous doors of litigious harassment and degrades the quality of the working environment, you would have a case. But just because you hate gays doesn't mean they aren't entitled to the same rights and protections accorded every citizen.
Quote: Why not respect the people who prefer workers of the natural way of love?
Again, for the same reason we don't respect employers who prefer workers from the master race or superior gender. The market should be dictated by market considerations, like output and productivity, not irrelevant out of work considerations that have no bearing on working professionalism.
Quote: I'd like to mention a christian orginization traveled the country trying to prove that most of America was gay.
That is the biggest strawman argument I have ever seen in my life. Nobody is arguing that the majority of America is gay. The most liberal estimates of America's gay population place the figure at about 10%, with the modal data set being 5%. That's scientific polling and study data there advancing that claim, not agenda-driven organizations.
Quote: The results shocked the gay community to their bones, not even a percent was gay.
I'm sure that's what this group claimed the reaction was. The truth is, most gays probably didn't give a crap. The organization you cited obviously has a systematic bias in its goals and probably applied unscientific methods to achieve its results.
Quote: This was only a few years ago so don't me that their are many gays in America and that heterosexuals are becoming less and less common.
1. Nobody is making that argument. Please familiarize yourself with this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
2. Five percent of the American population amounts to 15,000,000. That's a lot. |
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Rainbowfied Mouse Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:26 am
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Drarksupersaiyan I have to admit that you know your facts and for some reason feel respect towards you, but God wants us to warn homosexuals or anyone that is living a life of sin that if their actions continue they will end up in hell.
Actually, this is also wrong. God does not us want to warn
Matthew 23:15 Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
God doesn't teach us to tell people about their condemnation, rather to tell them the glories of heaven. Again, I say that Jesus told us not to judge those outside of the church. God will judge them when the time comes... and we will have to see how that goes for ourselves, not tell them before such actions arise.
Quote: Another thing is that rape is rape and there is no covering it so why should there be any difference.
I don't get what you're talking about. MSM and FSF usually are two consenting adults.
Quote: Also what about people who think that homosexuality is wrong?
They're entitled to their opinion. But religious morals are not part of a democracy. Majority in America rules. We have our first amendment right to "Freedom of Religion" if gay people go to a gay-friendly church, shouldn't their church have the right to marry them to their beliefs. This argument was also used as a way for interracial marriage, until a legislation ruled that churches have their independent rights to marry people based on their creed. Churches will not be forced to marry people, just as they aren't required to marry interracial marriages.
Quote: Don't they deserve just as much rights as gays, that they should be able to vote against it to live in a non gay environment instead of having to let things that the majortiy of people think is wrong flood our televisions and society?
They also have the right to not look at gay people. Only 10% (is predicted) to be gay. The chances of someone on your block being gay is 10/100. So there will not be many "gay environments"
Quote: I'd also like to ask why should gay's be allowed to sue people for not wanting a gay person to work for them. Why not respect the people who prefer workers of the natural way of love?
Actually, there is currently not any law like this. The gay people who sue are because they are fired for being gay. They have a right to choose their lifestyle, according to your views, so why should people be able to fire them for choosing that lifestyle. People do not have to go to church... nor do they have to be Christian. God gave us freewill, if someone wants to eat the apple, kudos to them, but for those who decide not to eat the apple, kudos as well... that's why we have freewill.
Quote: I'd like to mention a christian orginization traveled the country trying to prove that most of America was gay. The results shocked the gay community to their bones, not even a percent was gay. This was only a few years ago so don't me that their are many gays in America and that heterosexuals are becoming less and less common.
A non-political/non-religious organization did something similar and found that 10-15% of the nation is openly gay.
I'd also like to ask you, what verses you believe say that homosexuals will burn in hell? |
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:02 pm
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Rainbowfied Mouse Drarksupersaiyan I have to admit that you know your facts and for some reason feel respect towards you, but God wants us to warn homosexuals or anyone that is living a life of sin that if their actions continue they will end up in hell. Actually, this is also wrong. God does not us want to warn Matthew 23:15 Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. God doesn't teach us to tell people about their condemnation, rather to tell them the glories of heaven. Again, I say that Jesus told us not to judge those outside of the church. God will judge them when the time comes... and we will have to see how that goes for ourselves, not tell them before such actions arise. Quote: Another thing is that rape is rape and there is no covering it so why should there be any difference. I don't get what you're talking about. MSM and FSF usually are two consenting adults. Quote: Also what about people who think that homosexuality is wrong? They're entitled to their opinion. But religious morals are not part of a democracy. Majority in America rules. We have our first amendment right to "Freedom of Religion" if gay people go to a gay-friendly church, shouldn't their church have the right to marry them to their beliefs. This argument was also used as a way for interracial marriage, until a legislation ruled that churches have their independent rights to marry people based on their creed. Churches will not be forced to marry people, just as they aren't required to marry interracial marriages. Quote: Don't they deserve just as much rights as gays, that they should be able to vote against it to live in a non gay environment instead of having to let things that the majortiy of people think is wrong flood our televisions and society? They also have the right to not look at gay people. Only 10% (is predicted) to be gay. The chances of someone on your block being gay is 10/100. So there will not be many "gay environments" Quote: I'd also like to ask why should gay's be allowed to sue people for not wanting a gay person to work for them. Why not respect the people who prefer workers of the natural way of love? Actually, there is currently not any law like this. The gay people who sue are because they are fired for being gay. They have a right to choose their lifestyle, according to your views, so why should people be able to fire them for choosing that lifestyle. People do not have to go to church... nor do they have to be Christian. God gave us freewill, if someone wants to eat the apple, kudos to them, but for those who decide not to eat the apple, kudos as well... that's why we have freewill. Quote: I'd like to mention a christian orginization traveled the country trying to prove that most of America was gay. The results shocked the gay community to their bones, not even a percent was gay. This was only a few years ago so don't me that their are many gays in America and that heterosexuals are becoming less and less common. A non-political/non-religious organization did something similar and found that 10-15% of the nation is openly gay. I'd also like to ask you, what verses you believe say that homosexuals will burn in hell?
I have read, that you have read all the versions of the bible and yet you still disagree on keeping marriage between a man and a woman.
Leviticus 18:22 says 22 “ Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."
Roman 1:26-27 says 26 " Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. "
1 Corinthians 6:9 says 9 " Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders "
Romans 1:18-32 says 18 " The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion 28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them
Try and talk your way out of that.By the way God created us to have a freewill but warns us if we use this freewill to disobey him and not truly ask for forgiveness before we die we will go to hell |
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:16 am
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Reply
