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| Same-sex Marriage? |
| Yes for Same-sex Marriage |
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47% |
[ 18 ] |
| Religion out of the Gov't Civil Unions for All |
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13% |
[ 5 ] |
| Same-sex Civil Unions are Okay |
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7% |
[ 3 ] |
| No |
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31% |
[ 12 ] |
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| Total Votes : 38 |
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 Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:11 am
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:49 am
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Quote: That's why we have adoption
Adoption is not reproduction. Any couple can adopt, and same sex couples can, and have adopted. Long term studies show that children raised in same sex households grow up to be . . . ready for this. . . normal.
Quote: If our country wasn't based on Christianity then I wonder why our dollars and coins says "In God We Trust"
Because in the 1950s we adopted In God We Trust as the national motto, largely in response to the atheistic leanings of our Communist enemies in the Cold War. Previously there were large swaths of time when we did not put it on our money. We also put a pyramid on the back of the money, does that mean the US was also founded on pyramid power?
Quote: and the Ten Commandment at the courthouse
We also place in courthouses:
Statues of Athena
Depictions of Mohamed
Depictions of Hammurabi
Various Zoroastrian symbols
Many of these have taken on secular symbolism for the delivering of law to a people. However, you will also note that Alabama judge Roy Moore was removed from the bench for refusing to remove a ten commandments monument from the Alabama courthouse.
Quote: If you want your work area to be a straight environment then that's your decision
Just like if you want it to be a white only environment, men only, Christians only, native born only, or no resident aliens? Oh wait, no, each and every one of those decisions will land you a justice dept. investigation for violating the 14th Amendment, 1964 Civil Rights Act, and Equal Employment and Opportunities Act. Businesses have a lot of rules and guidelines they operate under to avoid discrimination. Currently sexuality is not a suspect class. If we are going to have suspect classes at all, it makes little sense to exclude homosexuals. Again, if you want to say we should have no suspect classes at all, that's another argument.
Quote: and you should not be mocked
Mockery is a function of the private citizen's right to free speech. Anybody should be mocked for anything.
Quote: or sued in this matter for what you want you should not be sued for wanting your company to be a certain way.
Again, comes down to employment law, and strictly speaking, it does cut both ways. I'm certain you would be fuming if a business, say in Dearborn, MI where we have a large Arab population, hung up a sign saying "Christians need not apply." You would be livid, I'm certain, if a Hispanic shop in LA hung up a sign saying "No Anglos Allowed." This is no different, save for the fact that the law has yet to define sexuality as a scrutiny class. |
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:04 am
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Lord Bitememan Quote: That's why we have adoption Adoption is not reproduction. Any couple can adopt, and same sex couples can, and have adopted. Long term studies show that children raised in same sex households grow up to be . . . ready for this. . . normal. Quote: If our country wasn't based on Christianity then I wonder why our dollars and coins says "In God We Trust" Because in the 1950s we adopted In God We Trust as the national motto, largely in response to the atheistic leanings of our Communist enemies in the Cold War. Previously there were large swaths of time when we did not put it on our money. We also put a pyramid on the back of the money, does that mean the US was also founded on pyramid power? Quote: and the Ten Commandment at the courthouse We also place in courthouses: Statues of Athena Depictions of Mohamed Depictions of Hammurabi Various Zoroastrian symbols Many of these have taken on secular symbolism for the delivering of law to a people. However, you will also note that Alabama judge Roy Moore was removed from the bench for refusing to remove a ten commandments monument from the Alabama courthouse. Quote: If you want your work area to be a straight environment then that's your decision Just like if you want it to be a white only environment, men only, Christians only, native born only, or no resident aliens? Oh wait, no, each and every one of those decisions will land you a justice dept. investigation for violating the 14th Amendment, 1964 Civil Rights Act, and Equal Employment and Opportunities Act. Businesses have a lot of rules and guidelines they operate under to avoid discrimination. Currently sexuality is not a suspect class. If we are going to have suspect classes at all, it makes little sense to exclude homosexuals. Again, if you want to say we should have no suspect classes at all, that's another argument. Quote: and you should not be mocked Mockery is a function of the private citizen's right to free speech. Anybody should be mocked for anything. Quote: or sued in this matter for what you want you should not be sued for wanting your company to be a certain way. Again, comes down to employment law, and strictly speaking, it does cut both ways. I'm certain you would be fuming if a business, say in Dearborn, MI where we have a large Arab population, hung up a sign saying "Christians need not apply." You would be livid, I'm certain, if a Hispanic shop in LA hung up a sign saying "No Anglos Allowed." This is no different, save for the fact that the law has yet to define sexuality as a scrutiny class.
Look buddy I have coins that were made in the 30's and they still say in God we trust so don't use the cold war as an example our country was based on Christianity and founded by Christian and you seemed to have avoided my other statemnts |
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:10 am
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Drarksupersaiyan I have read, that you have read all the versions of the bible and yet you still disagree on keeping marriage between a man and a woman.
That's because I have studied the bible for years on end, and would like to show you the misconceptions.
Drark Leviticus 18:22 says 22 “ Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."
Many laws from Leviticus are no longer used. Such as not mixing crops, nor hybrid animals, nor eating meat, which is common practice by Christians today (Leviticus 19:19, 19:27, 19:29.) We also know that the Old Testament laws no longer apply under the New Covenant. Even though the punishment may be death, there were also other sins that called for death; one such being killing the people who raise their children to another deity, even though they are not Israelites (Leviticus 20:1-2.)
Galations 2:21
"I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”
Colossians 2:13-15
"13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross."
Romans 7:6
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
Drark Roman 1:26-27 says 26 " Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. "
Now, looking at the verse we first see 'exchanged natural relations' to lead us to believe it's homosexuality. However, is homosexuality truly unnatural? This verse very well could be referring to members in that will be gay for a purpose other than love, as one might find in the prison system. There are many psychological cases where MSM and FSF occur for various reasons against their natural sexuality.
Drark 1 Corinthians 6:9 says 9 " Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders "
Corinthians brings up a very good point against why homosexuals inherit the kingdom of God. However, they are also very debatable for a number of reasons.
Corinth was part of the Roman Empire and followed the traditional values of the Greeks. There are many traditions that these verses could be talking about. First of all, it was a very common practice among the military that a member of the military would be raped by a higher ranking officer.
The one I most believe is that this verse was in fact judging homosexuality, however, it was not the homosexuality that we know today. In Greek Culture it was common practice for a man to give an apprenticeship to a boy between the ages of 12-17, the terms used were Erastes and Eromenos. These relationships lasted until the boy became a man. These men were also married, often with children, but still committed sexual acts with children. After the boy became a man he was more than likely required to leave, and the man would find another boy to apprentice.
Both of the acts mentioned were either *****, rape, or adultery or a combination. Therefore it is reason enough to see why God would condemn such acts. These acts were also not relationships that were built to last through a holy matrimony, just another way to outlet sexual desires.
A specific problem to the First Letter of Paul to the Corinthians is that the word where homosexual fits in is rarely translated the same among the different version of the Bible. It is a lost word, and is loosely translated. This word is arsenokoitai.
Arsenokoitai is the unknown word. One knows from roots that arsen means 'man,' and o is a linking Greek letter, but the rest is unknown. The word arsenokoitais is located in the bible as well, but is often translated differently (1st Timothy 1:9-10.)
Quote: KJVCorinthians – abusers of themselves with mankind Timothy – them that defile themselves with mankind RSVCorinthians – sexual perverts Timothy – Sodomites** NIVCorinthians – homosexual offenders Timothy – perverts NASBCorinthians – homosexuals Timothy – homosexuals NABCorinthians – Sodomites** Timothy – Sodomites** NEBCorinthians – those guilty of homosexual perversion Timothy – perverts Luther*Corinthians – Child Abuser Timothy – Child Abuser (knabenschaender)
*Luther was a revolutionary man that believed the Catholic Church was corrupt during his time. He believed that the people should be able to read the bible without learning Latin, so he translated the bible into German.
**Sodomites is a term referring to those who participate in sodomy. This term comes from the belief that God destroyed Sodom for being homosexual. However, this is not right. God wanted to destroy the city (Genesis 18:16,) before the angels that were going to be raped came (Genesis 19.) Even if it were the reason, one has no solid evidence to say so, as this would also have been rape and most likely adultery. With two sins dangling there, and one debatable sin, one can not use it as information against homosexuality. This term, however, does not necessarily refer to homosexuals alone, as it could be heterosexuals who partake in sodomy, if this were the correct use of the term.
With all those different translations it's easy to see how unknown the word actually is. Some of the terms apply both to homosexuals and heterosexuals. Adding to the fact that the word homosexual was not created until the mid-1800's, it becomes even more to see as to why the word is unclear.
A continued argument for those who find that the word might not be homosexual use the word effeminate (from the KJV,) as a way to go against homosexual practices. These people claim that homosexuality promotes effeminate males. However, even so, not all homosexuals are effeminate, nor do all promote the use of blending gender roles. Society is the general way to define gender roles, and Christians are not part of the world, just in it. Another argument against this is yet another possible mistranslation. The word effeminate is from the Greek word malakoi, meaning soft; some people believe that this is not a derogatory term referring to effeminacy. The early churches translated the word as masturbation, androgyny, but not effeminate; more common bibles use prostitutes. Others believe that the word is referring to moral softness; for example, questioning one's faith.
Lastly, there are many other verses in Corinthians that are not commonly used in most church practices. An example of such is a verse that asks women to wear something over their heads while in the church. For example
1 Corinthians 11:4-6
4Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.
So, in other words, woman have to wear viels in church during prayer, and men cannot wear anything. Typically no one wears anything on their head.
1 Corinthians 14:34-35
34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
What does this mean? No women pastors? No speaking in church if you're a girl? Clearly few churches follow this.
Drark Try and talk your way out of that.By the way God created us to have a freewill but warns us if we use this freewill to disobey him and not truly ask for forgiveness before we die we will go to hell
Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight.
1 Corinthian 5:12-13
12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside.
What business is it of yours to judge those outside the church? What business is it yours to say who goes to hell, and who does not? Does not only God have the wisdom to say who will, and who will not?
Matthew 7:1-5 (NIV)
1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
You have your own sins to judge, and these are the words of Jesus, not of Paul. Jesus is more right than Paul is, therefor, I suggest you takes Jesus' word and not judge until you yourself become perfect! Most letters of Paul are to the leaders of churches, not to the members and laity.
Matthew 22:34-40 (NIV)
34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus replied: “ 'Love the Lord you God with all you heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 All the Law and Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
All the law and prophets hang on these two commandments. Tell me then, how does a homosexual violate either of these two?
Salvation is the basic doctrine of most religions. It is the belief of who gets saved by (insert deity/ies here.) In the Christian religion it deals with the followers of Christ and those who don't follow. The most important verse in the bible dealing with how one gets saved.
Romans 10:9-13 (NIV)
9 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11 As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile —the same Lord Is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
A Christian that one must say that 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe that God raised Jesus from the dead. However, it is not as simple as that. This is just a requirement as a Christian to take your first step towards achieving salvation.
John 3:16-18 (NIV)
16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever so believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."
John 3:16 is one of the most used verses in the bible that I have heard in my experience. All this verse speaks of believing being salvation. But believing is so much more than salvation, it is faith.
Hebrews 11:1 (NIV)
1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
By believing in God a Christian is knowing that God is real, even though we may not see him. This is the mystery of religions, humans putting their trust in something that they cannot see, nor know for sure is real.
Romans 1:17 (NIV)
17 For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written, “The righteous will live by faith.”
Now speaking in terms before Jesus Christ, the law was a set of commandments. No, not the 10 commandments one learns in Sunday school given to Moses, no, try hundreds spanning across the book of Exodus and Leviticus. Everyone was stuck obeying these laws, if Jewish, and if they did not, they would have to face the consequences that follow.
We're very gracious to be given the Son, Jesus Christ. With him, those laws no longer apply to us as Christians. Jesus' death on the cross was the last sacrifice.
Galatians 2:21 (NIV)
21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing
Colossians 2:13-15 (NIV)
13 When you were dead in you sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers of authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
Romans 7:6 (NIV)
6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
This was valuable for our humankind. We were brought out of the old covenant. Jesus was made our new high priest to lead our ways. The book of Hebrews through the verses in 7-8 speak of Jesus becoming our new high priest.
Hebrews 7:12 (NIV)
12 For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.
Hebrews 7:18 (NIV)
18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless
Hebrews 7:22 (NIV)
22 Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.
Jesus brought forth our new covenant by dying on the cross. But, without laws, it would be possible to have a chaotic religion. Jesus, in the gospels gives us two very important laws, the only ones we have to obey as followers of Christ.
Romans 13:9-10 (NIV)
9 The commandments, “Do not murder,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Jesus, in Matthew, proves that he creates this fulfillment in Matthew.
Matthew 5:17 (NIV)
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them.”
1st John 3:11-24 is a great place to read if you're still confused about what loving your neighbor is.
Going back to the beginning, those who have faith follow the law (Romans 1:17,) we know that those who truly believe in God, and Jesus, will follow those two great commandments that Jesus set before us. In fact, those are the only two commandments he set before us. Other rules that he stated can all be summed into those two.
One may then come to the conclusion that those who follow these two laws are righteous.
James 2:8 (NIV)
8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right.
Romans 1:17 (NIV)
17 For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”
Romans 3:22-24 (NIV)
22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference 22 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
From all these verses we can gather a definition of the Christian salvation. This salvation is obtained through the believing Jesus Christ as the Messiah, and the belief that he was, in fact, raised from the dead and returned to heaven. Jesus became the new high priest and installed a new system with two basic laws. Those who live righteously will live by this two laws.
With our basic knowledge on what salvation is, what is it that makes homosexuals not obey the two laws given to us by the Lord, Jesus Christ? Can not a married, homosexual couple engage in sexual activity with each other, and still love God, and their neighbor just as equally as a heterosexual couple? Of course they can, there's nothing different between a heterosexual relationship and a homosexual relationship other than the partner being of the same sex in the homosexual relationship.
Many opinions on the church and homosexuality vary. Even some churches that might agree that homosexuality is a sin, but cannot be changed, claim that homosexuals should stay celibate. However, the bible is clear about why this doctrine would not make sense.
Same-sex marriage is very acceptable, and should be performed by any Christian church.
1st Corinthians 7:8-9 (NIV)
8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
Homosexuals still burn with passion, it's just not for someone of the opposite sex, rather, someone for the same sex. Therefore, there is not a reason that someone striving for a relationship for a mature, human adult should be prevented from marrying, as he or she will still have a passion.
What is love?
1st Corinthians 13:4-7 (NIV)
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Homosexuals are very able to have this kind of love between each other. Unfortunately, some people allow the promiscuous members of the homosexual community to stick out and show that they are incapable of producing such relations. However, the same faulty relationships are seen in heterosexuality as well. There is a vast amount of homosexuals looking for a lasting relationship rather than a one-night stand.
1st John 4:15-17 (NIV)
15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. 17 In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him.
However, it is up for the leader of the parish to perform the marriage. It would be a horrible thing for a church to be forced against their right to interpret the bible freely to give a 'controversial' marriage. The church has it's 1st amendment right to choose it's religion, as long as they are not harming people then they are in line with the law.
2nd Corinthians 3:9 (NIV)
9 If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!
Let me tell you a few things, I have been part of churches since I was three, studying history, theology, and Christianity in itself from many different viewpoints.
Heres some verses for you to reconsider your ways.
Romans 1:1
"You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things."
1 John 3:15
"Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him."
1 Corinthians 4:4-6
"4My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God."
Luke 6:37-38
37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
James 4:11-12
"11Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?"
Quote: If the majority wants a straight environment, shouldn't they be able to have it!
If we're going to be filled with the Spirit on this one, Jesus didn't eat with the Pharisees, he ate with the tax-collectors and prostitutes. |
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Rainbowfied Mouse Vice Captain
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Rainbowfied Mouse Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:17 pm
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Drark Look buddy I have coins that were made in the 30's and they still say in God we trust so don't use the cold war as an example our country was based on Christianity and founded by Christian and you seemed to have avoided my other statemnts
I do see the "In God We Trust" on the front. But this is because LB had a slight confusion in what he meant. In 1864 is when we placed the term on our coins, but in 1956 is when Congress officially adopted the motto. But, 1864 does not equal 1776, and neither does 1956 equal 1776, so this proves nothing about us being a "Christian Nation!"
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. "
Let's quote the important stuff "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
So, issues that are dealt with in law, should not have church involved with them! The benefits, churches don't get taxed. For years "religiously free" Americans have been governed in a pseudo-democracy, where theocratic leaders are voted in. Society has made changes before churches have, and slowly the churches follow.
Burning Witches, a common practice before the USA <-- "Though Shalt Not Suffer a Witch To Live"
Marriage of Interfaith <-- obviously unjust... I'm unsure where a verse is for this, but it was a religious argument
Marriage of Interracial <-- same as above
More than just issues of marriage are involved. Anything can be involved. What went on in your bedroom thirty years ago was governed by "Sodomy Laws", which for centuries existed after Thomas Aquinas found writings from Greek Stoics that said "anything pleasurable is sinful" which went to Puritan beliefs that banned dancing and fun! All of these were backed by "Bible verses" proving them to be just, and should be used in law.
I realize that most the issues I present to you are from before the US Constitution. But a majority of things today are just in the past 20years being overturned by those who actually understand the constitutions "Freedom of Religion." This statement also implies "Freedom from Religion." With all religions in the world, variances of differing sects, there are going to be thousands of differing doctrines, if a government were to support one religion, then it would seem that the minority religions have had their equal area in this world taken out.
Few people tend to look back into our history, and it's writer. The 1700s was a progressive movement of science and reason. A deist (what a few of our Founding Fathers were) is arguably Universal Unitarians. They argued; if a just God existed, he would not condemn disbelievers. How is it that one could throw those to hell that disbelieve in them? It's hard to produce evidence for or against, and naturally a kind God would not condemn them. (Their argument, not mine.) The phrases involved are not the phrases used by Judea-Christians of the 1700s, and the signers of the DoI were hesitant to sign at first because of such.
This, favorably disproves tons of arguments used by churches of the past that our founding fathers were "Christian Men", when really they were the Agnostic, Atheists, and Unitarians of a forced-Christian world. Arguments about teaching: Evolution, interracial tolerance, interfaith tolerance, etc. etc. etc. in public education! Let me tell you folks, the absence of tolerance is bigotry! As far as Evolution goes, that's another argument in itself, but Charles Darwin (along with Da Vinci, Newton, and many other people) dwelled in a "Christian" society where views such as the Earth revolving around the Sun, gravity, and "today's" evolution resulted in church pressures to quiet them *in some cases to the point of threatening execution for 'Heresy' and undermining the Church*. Little fact for you, the Catholic Church didn't admit the Earth revolved around the sun until the 90s, and only today have churches took off a box on God's power claiming evolution was a possibility. (Lord Bitememan has more to add I'm sure x: )
If we're going to use a currency motto as reason for us to believe our nation was something, the latin phrase "E Pluribus Unum" was approved in 1782 as our nation motto, the term means "out of many, one" which is our diverse people in one nation. LGBTs are part of our diverse nation! |
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:30 pm
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:32 pm
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:09 pm
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Rainbowfied Mouse Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:31 pm
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Rainbowfied Mouse Drarksupersaiyan I'm just gonna end this debate over gay rights. Back to Soddom and Gomorrah if you read the bible like you say you do when the town was surrounded by the young and old MEN they called out to Lot where are the MEN so we know them carnally. This is the straw that broke the camels back. You studied the bible for so many years apparently and yet you missed when all the homosexuals said to Lot "where are the MEN so we know them carnally". And by the way if you going to use something very holy use it right and not just include the things that make a point look good. P.S. I have made my point and when judgment come we will see what happens but I have warned you that it will not be a pretty sight. Apparently you haven't touched a read on my thread. Read it, it might teach you some valuable lessons. It's not a debate if you don't cross-examine my ideas. So either you're completely shocked and cannot argue, so you revert to an argument I already examined, or you just don't care to review the ideas presented. I already argued Sodom and Gomorrah! You may also want to consider not everyone is Christian, so some people do not give a crap about the Bible, why oppress the atheists with your rulings?
Who said I am pushing this down atheist throats, I don't even know an atheist. I'm using Soddom and Gomorrah as my closing statements and if I didn't read them how would I know that you I said you studied the bible? Stop stating things about me that aren't true. Finally I'm done so don't message me with this the stuff I have ALREADY READ.I'm done with this debate but like I said when the time comes we will see who was right. |
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:37 pm
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Drarksupersaiyan Rainbowfied Mouse Drarksupersaiyan I'm just gonna end this debate over gay rights. Back to Soddom and Gomorrah if you read the bible like you say you do when the town was surrounded by the young and old MEN they called out to Lot where are the MEN so we know them carnally. This is the straw that broke the camels back. You studied the bible for so many years apparently and yet you missed when all the homosexuals said to Lot "where are the MEN so we know them carnally". And by the way if you going to use something very holy use it right and not just include the things that make a point look good. P.S. I have made my point and when judgment come we will see what happens but I have warned you that it will not be a pretty sight. Apparently you haven't touched a read on my thread. Read it, it might teach you some valuable lessons. It's not a debate if you don't cross-examine my ideas. So either you're completely shocked and cannot argue, so you revert to an argument I already examined, or you just don't care to review the ideas presented. I already argued Sodom and Gomorrah! You may also want to consider not everyone is Christian, so some people do not give a crap about the Bible, why oppress the atheists with your rulings? Who said I am pushing this down atheist throats, I don't even know an atheist. I'm using Soddom and Gomorrah as my closing statements and if I didn't read them how would I know that you I said you studied the bible? Stop stating things about me that aren't true. Finally I'm done so don't message me with this the stuff I have ALREADY READ.I'm done with this debate but like I said when the time comes we will see who was right.
You are stating in a political thread many religious ideas! Religion and Politics are separate (Amendment 1.)
If you read my statement, you would have seen the Sodom and Gomorrah section, especially for you!!! biggrin |
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Rainbowfied Mouse Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:40 pm
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:47 pm
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Lord Bitememan Quote: P.S. I have made my point and when judgment come we will see what happens but I have warned you that it will not be a pretty sight. Perhaps. Of course, when that time comes it will be between a divine authority and a man, not man and a state. It is not the business of the state to become a divine judge, nor does the state possess the resources to be an adequate one. In as much, enforcing divine law on earth makes little sense as a function of state. It is the business of state, instead, to enforce those laws that better preserve the conditions needed to maintain society. Much of the Bible deals with self-imposed moral conduct of the individual, not macro-political paradigms on which to base a society. In as much, we should make laws that make sense for society, not those designed to bring you into compliance with the personal dictates from the Bible.
I not talking about that rolleyes , I'm talking about when the God who created the heavens and the earth comes back and take the people who have done like they were supposed to will return with him and after a thousand years the earth will burn hotter then anything anyone has ever known and he will come back and create a new land for his followers. |
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:53 pm
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:57 pm
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