Same-Sex Marriage

[goodshot911SNK]

fmkrit

I'm against it.
I'm an observent Greek Orthodox Christian, and it was the way I was taught and raised, and I completely agree. It's not the way God intended it.
Go ahead and say I'm wrong, but there's no point because it won't change my opinion.

see i believe you are right but NOT everyone is your religion thy cam make a church of the gays and do whatever they want and there is nothing you could do because we are A FREE PEOPLE  

[Semiremis]

Lord Bitememan

Semiremis

Lord Bitememan

haydenhearts

but the other churches will be pressured into it.... u do realize this right....

Pressured by whom? Their believers? That sounds just fine to me. Other than that organizations in the US have a long and firm tradition of defending their independence and internal practices, and I doubt highly that they will cave to pressures from outside groups.

I don't think that's what most of those who present that type of argument are worried about. I'm guessing it has more to do with financial pressures, where state funding intertwines with religiously based institutions.

And those are the fleas that come with the dog of taking public money. You are expected to use that money in a manner consistent with the laws and protections of the land. Just as we would expect to deny funds to a Nation of Islam charity that refused to provide services to whites, so too does the public have a right to expect that public funds used by religious institutions will not discriminate against citizens on the basis of sexual orientation. Churches, more than any other group, can opt out of this by declining public money and relying on their own donor base.

Discrimination against white people isn't a part of the Islamic faith as far as I know. Homosexuality (usually just sexual acts) are wrong according to the interpretations of the bible that the majority of Christians go bye and agree with. We need to protect religious freedoms and we don't need to impose the view of the state onto them. Many Christians would lay off of the gay marriage issue if they knew that their right to their own religious beliefs were protected.

Most of the objections to reasonable arguments are based in fear, I think thats the case with many who are against gay marriage. The opposing side thus far have only reacted in ways that would increase that fear(s). Best to go to the root and find out what it is and address those concerns. Losing their rights seems to be a big one. I think when it comes to money and when it comes policies involving the education of their children, I've also heard a lot of concern over a loss of freedom of speech (and then they reference Canada).  

[Lord Bitememan]

Semiremis

Lord Bitememan

Semiremis

Lord Bitememan

haydenhearts

but the other churches will be pressured into it.... u do realize this right....

Pressured by whom? Their believers? That sounds just fine to me. Other than that organizations in the US have a long and firm tradition of defending their independence and internal practices, and I doubt highly that they will cave to pressures from outside groups.

I don't think that's what most of those who present that type of argument are worried about. I'm guessing it has more to do with financial pressures, where state funding intertwines with religiously based institutions.

And those are the fleas that come with the dog of taking public money. You are expected to use that money in a manner consistent with the laws and protections of the land. Just as we would expect to deny funds to a Nation of Islam charity that refused to provide services to whites, so too does the public have a right to expect that public funds used by religious institutions will not discriminate against citizens on the basis of sexual orientation. Churches, more than any other group, can opt out of this by declining public money and relying on their own donor base.

Discrimination against white people isn't a part of the Islamic faith as far as I know. Homosexuality (usually just sexual acts) are wrong according to the interpretations of the bible that the majority of Christians go bye and agree with. We need to protect religious freedoms and we don't need to impose the view of the state onto them. Many Christians would lay off of the gay marriage issue if they knew that their right to their own religious beliefs were protected.

Most of the objections to reasonable arguments are based in fear, I think thats the case with many who are against gay marriage. The opposing side thus far have only reacted in ways that would increase that fear(s). Best to go to the root and find out what it is and address those concerns. Losing their rights seems to be a big one. I think when it comes to money and when it comes policies involving the education of their children, I've also heard a lot of concern over a loss of freedom of speech (and then they reference Canada).

You are confusing mainstream Islam with the Nation of Islam. I specified the Nation of Islam. You can learn more about the NOI here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam

I refer you to these quotes about them:

Quote:

Mainstream Muslims consider the group as a heretic sect of Islam due to the differing beliefs of the concept of God, race, prophecy, and many others.

Quote:

As of 2005, the N.O.I. has been included in the Southern Poverty Law Center's list of active hate groups in the United States.

So based on the NOI's religious interpretations, they might choose to deny a charitable program to whites. This is not inconsistent with their readings of their religion, it is inconsistent with other denominational interpretations of Islam.

As to your assessment of "majority" among Christianity, you have to be VERY careful with the use of that term. Major denominations of Christianity have recently openly accepted gay clergy and even same sex unions. These include the Episcopal Church and the Evangelical Lutheran Council of America. To say that the stance among even Christian groups on the gay marriage subject approaches consensus is a gross oversight of recent developments.

As to the concerns for religious freedom among Christians, you haven't addressed how the freedom of belief and worship would be impinged upon if the state legalized gay marriage. The only matter you pointed to had to do with the direction of public funds. Again, I default to the out on that. If the church feels so strongly in its beliefs that it could not dispense with public money in a manner consistent with public policy, it simply doesn't need to take public money. It's not like this money goes to enable religious worship. Churches get money solely as an underwrite to faith-based charities. This has nothing to do with the actual worship, which is run at private expense by the church. That is not infringed on, and the public has no say as to how that will be conducted. In other words, if the Catholic Church wants to take a million taxpayer dollars to run a support program for widows, it can't bar the widow of a lesbian wedding from a taxpayer funded program (assuming the legalization of same sex unions). During services, they are free to deny her communion all they want, and the government can't force them to. See the difference?  

[Ruyashie]

Well, my religion says its not good. So I would say no, I dont think they should be wed or recognized.

If I wasn't a Catholic, Id still be against it. Studies in the Netherlands(who supported gay marriage before it the study started) have shown that even after allowing Gay Marriage, the rate of suicides, drug abuse, and gay rapes stay the same. Now for all you Pro's, I am not saying this is how it is in every country, but a example of how not all country will react positively to the allowance of Gay Marriage.  

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

Ruyashie

Well, my religion says its not good. So I would say no, I dont think they should be wed or recognized.

If I wasn't a Catholic, Id still be against it. Studies in the Netherlands(who supported gay marriage before it the study started) have shown that even after allowing Gay Marriage, the rate of suicides, drug abuse, and gay rapes stay the same. Now for all you Pro's, I am not saying this is how it is in every country, but a example of how not all country will react positively to the allowance of Gay Marriage.

Link to evidence?

From what I heard divorce went down [ x ] [ x ]  

[Lord Bitememan]

Quote:

Studies in the Netherlands(who supported gay marriage before it the study started) have shown that even after allowing Gay Marriage, the rate of suicides, drug abuse, and gay rapes stay the same.

In other words, there's no correlation between homosexuality and suicide, drug abuse, and rape.  

[Ruyashie]

Lord Bitememan

Quote:

Studies in the Netherlands(who supported gay marriage before it the study started) have shown that even after allowing Gay Marriage, the rate of suicides, drug abuse, and gay rapes stay the same.

In other words, there's no correlation between homosexuality and suicide, drug abuse, and rape.

From what I read they wanted to see if it would decrease those rates and it didn't.  

[Lord Bitememan]

So what? If anyone is making the argument of legalizing gay marriage to reduce negative behaviors it is a very small minority of that campaign. Most people stake out civil libertarian positions on the matter.  

[Ruyashie]

Lord Bitememan

So what? If anyone is making the argument of legalizing gay marriage to reduce negative behaviors it is a very small minority of that campaign. Most people stake out civil libertarian positions on the matter.

Proof?  

[Lord Bitememan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage

Quote:

Support for same-sex marriage is often based upon what is regarded as a universal human rights issue, equality before the law,[3] and the goal of normalizing LGBT relationships.[4][5][6]

 

[Ruyashie]

Lord Bitememan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage

Quote:

Support for same-sex marriage is often based upon what is regarded as a universal human rights issue, equality before the law,[3] and the goal of normalizing LGBT relationships.[4][5][6]

Didnt we just agree that Wikipedia is not the best reference site?  

[Lord Bitememan]

You and Mouse have that agreement. I never took shots at Wiki.  

[Ruyashie]

Lord Bitememan

You and Mouse have that agreement. I never took shots at Wiki.

What do mean by shots?  

[Lord Bitememan]

Ruyashie

Lord Bitememan

You and Mouse have that agreement. I never took shots at Wiki.

What do mean by shots?

I mean I never attacked the credibility of Wikipedia as a source. That was you and Mouse.  

[Ruyashie]

Lord Bitememan

Ruyashie

Lord Bitememan

You and Mouse have that agreement. I never took shots at Wiki.

What do mean by shots?

I mean I never attacked the credibility of Wikipedia as a source. That was you and Mouse.

Oh, thanks for clarifying.