If Wesker died properly....

[Canas Renvall]

It's not a crystal. It's a device, like every other shiny lab tool. That red thing isn't a gem, it's a liquid. But I suppose you wouldn't know that. razz

In essence, like most of the new-old RE debates, it's subjective. I agree, Las Plagas were among some of the dumbest ideas known to man, but Jill's mind control is not just "where it came from". It has all the science behind it and such, where Las Plagas was just like "Oh lol, I'm hundreds of years old. Hi!"  

[Biohazard EXTREME]

It doesn't matter. They turned Jill into a Stepford Wife. Literally. She's blonde. And she's being controlled by a man. Now, I don't know this for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if Wesker had a little remote control for her too.
It's a horrible decision. Period.

Also, where have I heard it before?

A man in a black coat... Takes control of a blonde girly person... Wait, did RE5 have Black Materia in it?  

[ElenaMason]

As stupid as Las Plagas is view here, as we all know Resident Evil is originally titled Bio Hazard. "A" bio-hazard could consist of any material that is destructive, acidic, or yes, even parasitic. Maybe the transformations of the Las Plagas were ridiculously extreme, but the idea of it really shouldn't come to any surprise. This was what I was trying to get at when I first entered into the guild. I was going to jump on this very point, but I didn't see any "point" at the time because there are some clear opposing views against RE 4 or RE 5 in here. But because this is a fantasy based game, why SHOULDN'T it be possible in the plot line? Neither of us own the game, Capcom does. If they want to take it in the direction that they're going then that's their call, not ours.

Canas- on a second thought, I loved your scenarios you came up with. it was an enjoyable read. smile  

[Biohazard EXTREME]

But it's NOT a fantasy based game... Well, it didn't used to be. RE1, 2 and 3 are pure science fiction. It's a lot more plausible than fantasy.
Yes, if you start out with RE4, I can see how you might think it's a fantasy game, since it's got castles and LOTR ripoffs. But that's exactly the problem. They crossed from Science Fiction into Fantasy. It's like giving Batman actual super powers. That's not what the character is about.
Resident Evil wasn't about fantasy, it was science fiction. Hard science fiction that could theoretically be plausible. But they just kept making it softer, and softer and softer, until eventually they said, "Screw it. Let's just throw a castle and a cave troll in there and make it fantasy."
It totally deviates from what Resident Evil is.  

[ElenaMason]

Biohazard EXTREME

But it's NOT a fantasy based game... Well, it didn't used to be. RE1, 2 and 3 are pure science fiction. It's a lot more plausible than fantasy.
Yes, if you start out with RE4, I can see how you might think it's a fantasy game, since it's got castles and LOTR ripoffs. But that's exactly the problem. They crossed from Science Fiction into Fantasy. It's like giving Batman actual super powers. That's not what the character is about.
Resident Evil wasn't about fantasy, it was science fiction. Hard science fiction that could theoretically be plausible. But they just kept making it softer, and softer and softer, until eventually they said, "Screw it. Let's just throw a castle and a cave troll in there and make it fantasy."
It totally deviates from what Resident Evil is.

im not saying the genre of it is fantasy. im saying the entire "thing" is a fantasy. a non existing world. oh in short. "its just a video game".  

[Biohazard EXTREME]

Yeah, but just because it's a fictional world, doesn't mean ANYTHING GOES. I mean, Lord of the Rings is a fictional world too. Imagine if in the middle of the final book, they introduced futuristic robots with laser guns. How ridiculous would that be? Every game can't be Final Fantasy, where they just make up anything, guns, swords, ninjas, monsters, aliens, zombies, whatever! It might work for Final Fantasy, but if EVERY game was Final Fantasy... Well, then you'd only need one game, wouldn't you?  

[ElenaMason]

Biohazard EXTREME

Yeah, but just because it's a fictional world, doesn't mean ANYTHING GOES. I mean, Lord of the Rings is a fictional world too. Imagine if in the middle of the final book, they introduced futuristic robots with laser guns. How ridiculous would that be? Every game can't be Final Fantasy, where they just make up anything, guns, swords, ninjas, monsters, aliens, zombies, whatever! It might work for Final Fantasy, but if EVERY game was Final Fantasy... Well, then you'd only need one game, wouldn't you?

no no, i get what your saying. dont get me wrong here. i totally get that. but with that very same logic, parasites DO exist.....and they HAVE been around for thousands of years just like viruses. its not something they just randomly pulled out of their a**.

yes the trolls in the game i find rather stupid. i totally agree with you on that 100%. on a random note, trolls have been around in fairy tales, mainly norweigian fairy tales WAY before LOTR ever came around. but anyway, no i dont find them to fit in the game.

one could argue however the gigantic alligators and spiders in the RE series, I don't though. I also accept those well to an extent. they dont look very zombish aside from the zombie ridden dogs. they sorta seemed randomly placed there. but prehistoric alligators used to be pretty big like that....at least i think. only reason i accept that in the games. but im getting off track here.

the overdone, over sized mutations/transformations caused by the las plagas are retarded. i totally agree. but the parasites themself, the idea of them for the game.....its not retarded. its a "bio hazard". it totally fits.

[EDIT] to be fair here to you guys, I will play devils advocate on my own reasoning. I don't know the entire history of cap com games. the only games i ever played from them was maybe street fighter. and that was years ago. but then devil may cry came along. DMC is the most prime example I can think of to go against my argument. their DMC series is great EXCEPT for Devil May Cry 2. that piece of s**t just does not fit at ALL in the entire series. the timeline of it is off and so is the story. the gameplay is boring and the graphic atmosphere is too generic. the only thing i like about that game is the costume designs for Dante and Lucia. Thats it. in this particular case, i have no idea what the hell Capcom was even thinking, but they redeemed them self with the third and 4th game.

Using that same "devil advocate" reasoning, then yes I could agree with you on some factors of RE 4 and 5 that it felt like they just....completely overdone or botched up what used to be very very cool and literally pulled it out of their a**, Wesker is a prime example of that.

The only advantage I found to fighting really big monsters that are insanely huge...it makes it for an amusing fight. Thats my personal take on it.

[DOUBLE EDIT] Here's another thought though. Whether its come to your mind or not, I have no idea. But Capcom is a japanese company right? yes they have american workers in it, but its mainly japanese. and their culture is completely different from ours. so there is always the possibility that the over cliche speech of leon in RE 4 they based on the popular antics of hollywood movies of the cliche "hero" role. they have to appeal to OUR culture aside from just their own so it might not be entirely their fault. they also have to work with the demands of the trade. i can't tell you how many stories of heard of developers making an absolutely fantastic game, but demands of majority rule on what the public wants for that particular game is going to determine what goes in the game to make profit. so in short? their fantastic game was FORCED to be crapified because of popular demand of whatever is demanded by the industry itself. their culture is going to affect their perception and opinion of American culture.

unfortunately because of the demands of the industry wanting to make money versus producing a fantastic game, us people who want the main story to stick to what it originally was is going to suffer in the long run for it. in that regard they can only work with so much to go by while trying to justify their changes in the game, which i think are 80% legit.  

[Biohazard EXTREME]

SaintChaos

no no, i get what your saying. dont get me wrong here. i totally get that. but with that very same logic, parasites DO exist.....and they HAVE been around for thousands of years just like viruses. its not something they just randomly pulled out of their a**.

the overdone, over sized mutations/transformations caused by the las plagas are retarded. i totally agree. but the parasites themself, the idea of them for the game.....its not retarded. its a "bio hazard". it totally fits.

Yes, but T-Virus was created in a lab. If they said, "We took a [Insert a REAL existing parasite here] and did a bunch of genetic modification on it. And called it Las Plagas." it would be a different story. But T-Virus wasn't just randomly discovered on a zombie corpse recovered from Alaskan permafrost. It was engineered in a lab. So That's where the monsters and zombies in RE come from. Technically they're all manmade. But to have a parasite as powerful as the plagas just sitting there for hundreds of years. That's not what RE is about.

SaintChaos

one could argue however the gigantic alligators and spiders in the RE series, I don't though. I also accept those well to an extent. they dont look very zombish aside from the zombie ridden dogs. they sorta seemed randomly placed there. but prehistoric alligators used to be pretty big like that....at least i think. only reason i accept that in the games. but im getting off track here.

Yeah, but that Alligator, whether well fitting or not, they're not passing it off as "Just something someone flushed down." It's another creature affected by the virus. Which affects different animals differently. It might zombify mammals. But Spiders and Insects aren't Mammals, so it might just affect them differently, and make them big and aggressive. It's a bit of a stretch, and frankly, that's another thing I liked about the movies, no giant insects. But they're still nowhere as bad as Las Plagas. Besides, again, you create an artificial universe, you establish its rules. And the giant insects have been around since the very first game. At which point you just go, "Oh look, giant insects. Scary. That's cool."
See, if there were no big insects in RE at all, and then suddenly after like, 4 games, they say, "Okay, now T-Virus also creates big insects." That would've been a very stupid move that would've made me just as angry as Las Plagas. But since they were there from the beginning, it's what's been established from the start. It's easier to accept.

SaintChaos

Here's another thought though. Whether its come to your mind or not, I have no idea. But Capcom is a japanese company right? yes they have american workers in it, but its mainly japanese. and their culture is completely different from ours. so there is always the possibility that the over cliche speech of leon in RE 4 they based on the popular antics of hollywood movies of the cliche "hero" role. they have to appeal to OUR culture aside from just their own so it might not be entirely their fault. they also have to work with the demands of the trade. i can't tell you how many stories of heard of developers making an absolutely fantastic game, but demands of majority rule on what the public wants for that particular game is going to determine what goes in the game to make profit. so in short? their fantastic game was FORCED to be crapified because of popular demand of whatever is demanded by the industry itself. their culture is going to affect their perception and opinion of American culture.

I don't know if you know this, but even in Japan, the dialogue for RE games (or at least the first few, I can't speak for 4 and 5) is in English. In Japan, playing RE1, RE2, 3, etc. The cinematics are all in English with subtitles. Resident Evil was made to be like an american movie. But where at first, it was trying to be like the George Romero zombie movies, you know, a fair budget horror B movie... That's what RE was.
Now, RE is more like a big budget Hollywood flick. And yes, it reflects our culture. But that's like... Imagine you have.... Silence of the Lambs, and it's got refined characters like Hannibal Lecter... And then, they make a sequel, about Hannibal, and it's full of car chases and the main protagonist who's hunting Hannibal keeps pulling off cheesy one liners. Hannibal is running away, the hero jumps from a 30 foot tall bridge, lands on Hannibal, doesn't get a scratch on himself, and then says, "Sorry to DROP IN!"

SaintChaos

unfortunately because of the demands of the industry wanting to make money versus producing a fantastic game, us people who want the main story to stick to what it originally was is going to suffer in the long run for it. in that regard they can only work with so much to go by while trying to justify their changes in the game, which i think are 80% legit.

Well, maybe that's partially true. But if your franchise gets stale, END it. Reboot it. But don't rape it. If Resident Evil 4 was its own stand alone game with absolutely no tie ins to the rest of the series, it would be a whole different story.  

[ElenaMason]

Biohazard EXTREME

SaintChaos

no no, i get what your saying. dont get me wrong here. i totally get that. but with that very same logic, parasites DO exist.....and they HAVE been around for thousands of years just like viruses. its not something they just randomly pulled out of their a**.

the overdone, over sized mutations/transformations caused by the las plagas are retarded. i totally agree. but the parasites themself, the idea of them for the game.....its not retarded. its a "bio hazard". it totally fits.

Yes, but T-Virus was created in a lab. If they said, "We took a [Insert a REAL existing parasite here] and did a bunch of genetic modification on it. And called it Las Plagas." it would be a different story. But T-Virus wasn't just randomly discovered on a zombie corpse recovered from Alaskan permafrost. It was engineered in a lab. So That's where the monsters and zombies in RE come from. Technically they're all manmade. But to have a parasite as powerful as the plagas just sitting there for hundreds of years. That's not what RE is about.

SaintChaos

one could argue however the gigantic alligators and spiders in the RE series, I don't though. I also accept those well to an extent. they dont look very zombish aside from the zombie ridden dogs. they sorta seemed randomly placed there. but prehistoric alligators used to be pretty big like that....at least i think. only reason i accept that in the games. but im getting off track here.

Yeah, but that Alligator, whether well fitting or not, they're not passing it off as "Just something someone flushed down." It's another creature affected by the virus. Which affects different animals differently. It might zombify mammals. But Spiders and Insects aren't Mammals, so it might just affect them differently, and make them big and aggressive. It's a bit of a stretch, and frankly, that's another thing I liked about the movies, no giant insects. But they're still nowhere as bad as Las Plagas. Besides, again, you create an artificial universe, you establish its rules. And the giant insects have been around since the very first game. At which point you just go, "Oh look, giant insects. Scary. That's cool."
See, if there were no big insects in RE at all, and then suddenly after like, 4 games, they say, "Okay, now T-Virus also creates big insects." That would've been a very stupid move that would've made me just as angry as Las Plagas. But since they were there from the beginning, it's what's been established from the start. It's easier to accept.

SaintChaos

Here's another thought though. Whether its come to your mind or not, I have no idea. But Capcom is a japanese company right? yes they have american workers in it, but its mainly japanese. and their culture is completely different from ours. so there is always the possibility that the over cliche speech of leon in RE 4 they based on the popular antics of hollywood movies of the cliche "hero" role. they have to appeal to OUR culture aside from just their own so it might not be entirely their fault. they also have to work with the demands of the trade. i can't tell you how many stories of heard of developers making an absolutely fantastic game, but demands of majority rule on what the public wants for that particular game is going to determine what goes in the game to make profit. so in short? their fantastic game was FORCED to be crapified because of popular demand of whatever is demanded by the industry itself. their culture is going to affect their perception and opinion of American culture.

I don't know if you know this, but even in Japan, the dialogue for RE games (or at least the first few, I can't speak for 4 and 5) is in English. In Japan, playing RE1, RE2, 3, etc. The cinematics are all in English with subtitles. Resident Evil was made to be like an american movie. But where at first, it was trying to be like the George Romero zombie movies, you know, a fair budget horror B movie... That's what RE was.
Now, RE is more like a big budget Hollywood flick. And yes, it reflects our culture. But that's like... Imagine you have.... Silence of the Lambs, and it's got refined characters like Hannibal Lecter... And then, they make a sequel, about Hannibal, and it's full of car chases and the main protagonist who's hunting Hannibal keeps pulling off cheesy one liners. Hannibal is running away, the hero jumps from a 30 foot tall bridge, lands on Hannibal, doesn't get a scratch on himself, and then says, "Sorry to DROP IN!"

SaintChaos

unfortunately because of the demands of the industry wanting to make money versus producing a fantastic game, us people who want the main story to stick to what it originally was is going to suffer in the long run for it. in that regard they can only work with so much to go by while trying to justify their changes in the game, which i think are 80% legit.

Well, maybe that's partially true. But if your franchise gets stale, END it. Reboot it. But don't rape it. If Resident Evil 4 was its own stand alone game with absolutely no tie ins to the rest of the series, it would be a whole different story.

hmmm you do make legitimate points. hmmm hmmm lol i don't have much more to say cuz i think everythings been boiled down to what i wanted to finish on starting when i first entered the guild. but i get where your coming from. as far as RE 5 goes, if they dont make an RE 6 to continue from RE 5 i have a small hunch that they just might actually reboot the series. if they do, thats would explain why the ended RE 5 the way they did. thats the only legitimate reason i can think of to give them the benefit of the doubt.

so i guess this begs the question then.....dear mr. bio. lol if the series got rebooted, how would you personally like it rebooted?

for me personally...however they reboot the series, if they do, they better ******** have wesker in it. lol cuz they really had something going with that character and i would hate to think he wouldnt be in a reboot of a series.  

[ElenaMason]

Thee Stranger

Woosh. Well, this is a fun thread.

Well, firstly, I've always been a proponent of the idea that Wesker should have stayed dead when the Tyrant gutted him in RE1. At the time (original PSone), Wesker's "death" was probably the goriest death sequence in videogame history. See, I liked Wesker's original character. That being he was a double agent and a company man, in it mostly for the money. He made a fatal mistake by releasing the Tyrant and it (and karma) came back and bit him in the a**. End of story.

When they brought him back, I was happy to see him again, but I thought it was a pretty silly plot twist. I mean, really... injecting an experimental virus beforehand and planning to get gutted by the Tyrant, then somehow being able to escape the mansion before it blew? Doesn't make too much sense me. But the Code Veronica Wesker is the Wesker I think most people fell in love with. Because now he was back, uber powerful, out for revenge, and with a mysterious new organization out to overthrow Umbrella and take over. It set up Wesker as the kind of behind the scenes Boba Fett guy of the series. That's also where the arch rivalry with Chris was established.

It's because of the events of Code Veronica that Chris just had to be the guy to kill Wesker. Although Barry definitely had a personal vendetta against Wesker as well, so it would also have been very appropriate to see Barry put the final bullet in him too (I like that idea, Bio). Really, all the remaining S.T.A.R.S. members would have had a grudge against Wesker for what he did in RE1. So my ideal death for Wesker would have been Chris, with the help of Jill and Barry, battling and delivering the final coup de grace. First it would be a gun fight/fist fight, and I like the idea introduced in RE5 that Wesker had to take injections to keep his virus in check, and if you overloaded his intake, it would become unstable. But his transformation would have had to have been slow, and it would have to slowly kill any intelligence or humanity he had (a la William Birkin). End it with the traditional rocker launcher and escape the lab before it explodes scenerio, and there ya go. And this scenerio would have happened in my ideal RE4, where all the past characters returned to take down Umbrella HQ, and you got to play just about all of them at some point.

As far as Las Plagas, pretty much what Bio said. Yeah, it's still a biohazard, but it's a prehistoric creature. All the monsters before RE4 were created in a lab by Umbrella scientists. Had the Plaga been created by Umbrella as a bioweapon, the whole deal would have been a lot easier to swallow, although zombies are still a million times better. Umbrella was always the main enemy. RE4 dumped the main enemy that the series always revolved around since the very beginning right off the bat and made it all about prehistoric parasites and LOTR cave trolls and castles with little stupid midget Salazar guys talking to you on the codec all Metal Gear Solid wannabe style. confused Doesn't fit in with anything that came before it. They should have just made an entirely new series out of it like they did with DMC (which was originally being developed as RE4, they realized it was nothing like RE, and thus DMC was born). And they made Leon more even more tough than Chris! And they made him the knife guy, too. Chris was always supposed to be the knife guy, what the ********, not surprising since they almost completly changed what Chris's character was supposed to be with REmake. But I'm rambling.

And RE5 is definitely far from perfect, but yeah, it still beats any of those shitbomb Anderson movies. By far.

that ive got to say was a very enjoyable read. i was hoping you'd post actually so thank you. i think im finally getting to understand what you guys are getting at in fact, i think im finally converting to a more proper appreciation for what resident evil should be.

see? now what did i tell you guys before? i came here to get a better understanding of the games from what they started as from the views of true veteran fans that were there before me. this is the point i was trying to get myself at, despite the obvious um....disagreements? of course ill still have my own personal views, but this is definitely starting to make a lot more sense now. im so glad i posted this thread xD thank you guys. and thanks for being patient. i know its annoying to deal with fairly new people to the series. trust me ive been there. *stretches and cracks spine joints* oh yeah....definitely going to sleep satisfied.

anyway, but yeah Stranger, i like the idea of your scenario too. i think i lean a little bit more on bio's but yeah the code veronica wesker was awesome. *yawns* oh boy time to go inside and go eat something. again thanks for posting guys. heart heart heart heart heart heart

any more inputs? story ideas? and yeah bio, when you get a chance if the series rebooted, how would you want it rebooted? you too stranger. how would you want it rebooted. or is your response here your answer to that question?  

[Biohazard EXTREME]

Maybe that should be a thread in itself. In fact, I'll create it right now.  

[Shy_Music_Angel]

I would want Ada to finish him off. but then again i think wesker is too bad a** to die.  

[Elaineybrainey]

Biohazard EXTREME

Yeah, I actually really enjoyed the movies. They aren't perfect, but then nothing is. Even Remake could've been improved if a certain voice actor had voiced Wesker. *coughRichardWaugh*

Now, if the movies said, "This is actually happening parallel to the games. And Alice was in the games universe the whole time, you just didn't see her, cause she was sneaky." Then yeah, I'd call bullshit and want nothing to do with the movies. But since they're doing a nice job of keeping to themselves, and not letting any of that RE4ness seep into them, I'm happy. Like I said, I'm just hoping that Afterlife won't have any RE4/5ness in it. At all.

But yeah, back on topic. Wesker...
As an alternate D scenario... Wesker doesn't die at all. He kills Chris and Jill, and establishes a new company to take Umbrella's place as bio weapon developers. The world is doomed. The series ends. Have a nice day.

I also call BS on the movies. Because A. Jill never went to any school to save any frikkin Angela Ashford. and B. WHY THE F*** DOES CARLOS HAVE A BRITISH-LIKE ACCENT?? they totally screwed the frikkin storyline.

and about wesker, if you look closely went Chris and Sheva are rocket-launching him, the rockets completely miss his head. so hopefully he was able to crawl out somehow. he IS Wesker.  

[Twili-Chan]

I don't think Wesker really died. For one, I believe that the only way Wesker can die is if Chris did it on his own. The end fight with him during RE5 in my opinion doesn't count because of Sheva and all of her distracting glory.
If Capcom is going to finish him off, it should be done with a fight between only chris and wesker in which some ridiculous epic scene goes down, and chris probably ends up shooting him.

It's not how Wesker dies is what really bothers me, it's who kills him. I just don't think that he should have died by the hands of both Chris and Sheva. It should be Chris alone, otherwise I don't think it counts.