Same-Sex Marriage

[Garrett31212]

Okay, neither of us know what the cause of homosexuality is. It can be argued either way.

If the cause is genetic, then like I said, it could be treated as a GID as homosexuals have feelings for the same sex and tend to be prone to effeminate behavior for gays and masculine behavior for lesbians.

If the cause is cultural, then our culture has problems.

Regardless, it does not matter. If significant research were done on it to prove it to be either cause, then I would oppose it either way. I do not consider it to be a proper lifestyle.  

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

Rainbowfied Mouse

Garett

As I've already explained, normal individuals are different than homosexuals. Lesbians tend to be masculine and gays tend to be effeminate. Whereas in most cases males are masculine and females are feminine, this is a automatic difference. They are not entirely the same.

You're going by a stereotype on society. I guess we should also make it a requirement for guys to not like clothes, watch sports, and drive big gas guzzlers, and woman should stay at home and raise children. And, not every homosexual is effeminate, nor is every lesbian masculine, again a stereotype on the group as a whole. Aside from that you're judgments are correlating with your morals rather than the morals of the people who support, as I recall we have a first amendment right to our own churches that support our right to marriage, by imposing such doctrines you are excluding a church it's right to perform a marriage according to it's beliefs.

Lord Bitememan

No, that arguement was settled in 1973 when the American Psychiatric Association removed sexual orientation from the list of mental disorders. You're conflating it with gender identity disorders, which are involved in those who seek sex reassignment surgery. Most homosexuals are quite satisfied with there plumbing and the use they put it to.

Rainbowfied Mouse

GID

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Gender identity disorder (GID) is the formal diagnosis used by psychologists and physicians to describe persons who experience significant gender dysphoria (discontent with the biological sex they were born with).

I'm perfectly content with being a male [answering Lord Bitememan's question.] I don't want to be a girl... that would make me a transvestite/transsexual (I forget which one is the correct term,) and I have no such intentions of sexual replacement. Therefore, I do not have GID, and, btw, my Dad, who has your beliefs, sent me to a therapist who agrees that I do not have GID.

You keep repeating previous arguments... but do not give factual evidence when I cross-examination you.

Garrett31212

Okay, neither of us know what the cause of homosexuality is. It can be argued either way.

But nature seems to be having a higher vantage point in this matter, and new discoveries are constantly made in favor.

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If the cause is genetic, then like I said, it could be treated as a GID as homosexuals have feelings for the same sex and tend to be prone to effeminate behavior for gays and masculine behavior for lesbians.

Again, that's a stereotype. Not all gay men are effeminate, not all lesbians are masculine. And, again, as stated above, both the WHO and APA took homosexuality off of any mental disorder lists. I want evidence as to how two well renowned organizations are incorrect in their studies showing that homosexuality is not GID.

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If the cause is cultural, then our culture has problems.

By who's morals?! I don't recollect seeing any evidence of this being immoral nor unethical other than the effeminate men and masculine woman, which I've only seen one bible verse, which has been mistranslated according to many theologians. Again, I appeal to the law in stating that we are free to choose our religion.

Wait, wait, wait. Let's look at a past thing you said

Garrett31212

Yes, I know not every straight man is masculine and I know every straight woman is not feminine. I also know that every gay is not effeminate, nor is every lesbian masculine. However, most turn out that way in every single society so there must be more to it than societal influences.

So is it socio-cultural influences or not?!

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Regardless, it does not matter. If significant research were done on it to prove it to be either cause, then I would oppose it either way. I do not consider it to be a proper lifestyle.

In this case you are appealing a logical fallacy "False Consensus Effect." The belief that you are right, no matter what evidence there is against you. And, once again, by what morals?! I don't recall any evidence from your argument, other than what I stated already was wrong, that shows homosexuality as immoral or unethical.

Before you can say that the cause should be 'fixed' the ethics need to be argued before that. Which it seems that you don't really argue, rather you just state that effeminacy in males, and masculinity in females is unethical, and refuse to back it up with evidence, nor do you refute any of my [or Lord Bitememan's] arguments. No offense, but if this were a real debate your side is seeming really weak and full of fallacies.

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APA

Is homosexuality a mental disorder?

No, lesbian, gay, and bisexual orientations are not disorders. Research has found no inherent association between any of these sexual orientations and psychopathology. Both heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Both have been documented in many different cultures and historical eras. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. Lesbian, gay, and bisexual relationships are normal forms of human bonding. Therefore, these mainstream organizations long ago abandoned classifications of homosexuality as a mental disorder.
http://www.apa.org/topics/sorientation.html

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Is being transgender a mental disorder?

A psychological condition is considered a mental disorder only if it causes distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their transgender feelings and traits to be distressing or disabling, which implies that being transgender does not constitute a mental disorder per se. For these people, the significant problem is finding the resources, such as hormone treatment, surgery, and the social support they need, in order to express their gender identity and minimize discrimination. However, some transgender people do find their transgender feelings to be distressing or disabling. This is particularly true of transsexuals, who experience their gender identity as incongruent with their birth sex or with the gender role associated with that sex. This distressing feeling of incongruity is called gender dysphoria.

According to the diagnostic standards of American psychiatry, as set forth in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, people who experience intense, persistent gender dysphoria can be given the diagnosis of Gender Identity Disorder. This diagnosis is highly controversial among some mental health professionals and transgender people. Some contend that the diagnosis inappropriately pathologizes gender variance and should be eliminated. Others argue that, because the health care system in the United States requires a diagnosis to justify medical or psychological treatment, it is essential to retain the diagnosis to ensure access to care.
http://www.apa.org/topics/transgender.html#isbeing
http://www.apa.org/releases/genderC08.html

 

[Rezal_Zioun]

I am bisexual and i do think i feel differnt. I never have a feeling like i need to fight. I CAN LOSE and its be no big deal. I know i must have lower lvls of testosterone (there are many more reasons). For me i think that might have to do with it alitttle. I love my girlfriend with all my heart. I am really mixed up inside sexually. I really dont know y i am the way i am, but i would not trade it for the world. I used to hate being bi, i mean i wanted to be str8. I even ask my church for help. But i just could never get it out. ended up dating a few guys. And i could never feel good about my self. Nikki really accept me for who i am. She has made my whole world. But i still am not sure y i am like this. rolleyes  

[Lord Bitememan]

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Okay, neither of us know what the cause of homosexuality is. It can be argued either way.

No, you can't argue the culture notion. Now, if you want to talk nature vs. nurture vs. both, then it can be debated either way. But I'll prove to you right now that culture doesn't cause homosexuality. If our entire culture, tomorrow, went gay, would you sleep with other men? Something tells me you wouldn't. Would you raise your kids to be gay? Something tells me you wouldn't. Assuming culture were the cause and not biology, do you think your kids, having been raised by you in a gay culture, would themselves turn out to be gay despite your best attempts at parenting? I get the distinct impression you don't think so. Implicit in that you would acknowledge that your personal preferences and family influences do more to shape you than the impact of culture on the development of your personality.

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If the cause is genetic, then like I said, it could be treated as a GID as homosexuals have feelings for the same sex and tend to be prone to effeminate behavior for gays and masculine behavior for lesbians.

For the third time, homosexuality is not a gender identity disorder. Nobody with a medical degree that wasn't issued by an ecclesiastical institution thinks this. Rather than try and defend this point with expert sources, you regurgitate it. It wasn't right the first two times you said it, it isn't right now.

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If the cause is cultural, then our culture has problems.

By what metric? Last time I checked America is still standing, despite growing acceptence nationwide of homosexuality. By even the most liberal estimates only 10% of the country's population is homosexual. Since we're maintaining a 2.1 fertility rate now, we're not going to go extinct. In fact, the fertility rate has risen in recent years, and demographers estimate this is due to a larger volume of overall births, not simply an immigrant driven phenomenon. So, it seems our culture is doing just fine even with a sizeable homosexual minority.

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I do not consider it to be a proper lifestyle.

And that's your opinion. It's the extent to which you would like to enact your opinion as policy that I would seek to work against it's more pernicious effects.  

[SnoopyLovesYou]

I'm against it because it just doesn't make sense to me.
Why would God make people that naturally are attracted to those of the opposite sex, who cannot naturally reproduce? How would that help our race in any way?
All of the homosexuals I know claim to be that way, but then turn around and date people of the opposite sex. I believe homosexuals are that way for attention. It's all psychological. I hate it when people say "love is love" because it's much easier to say, but much less valid than, "it is not logical for the human race (or some of the human race) to be attracted to the same sex, which doesn't allow for reproduction and doesn't produce further people of race, therefore not allowing it to thrive."

 

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

SnoopyLovesYou

I'm against it because it just doesn't make sense to me.
Why would God make people that naturally are attracted to those of the opposite sex, who cannot naturally reproduce? How would that help our race in any way?

God isn't Government. I love God, God loves me. However, our Constitution gives us Freedom of Religion, so if we're Atheist, than why would this apply?

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All of the homosexuals I know claim to be that way, but then turn around and date people of the opposite sex.

I've only dated the opposite sex because I didn't want to be homosexual, and thought they were feelings that would go away with time.

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I believe homosexuals are that way for attention. It's all psychological.

The APA (American Psychological Association), WHO (World Health Organization), British Psychological Community (unsure exact name,) and many many other recognized organizations do not define homosexuality as psychological, and in fact state that is the same as being straight, and works just as a straight relationship would. I trust psychologists that have secure, scientific, empirical information. Homosexuals have been proven to have similar brain activity to the opposite sex, meaning a gay man has similar activities as a straight female, and even is attracted to the same pheromones. And I am not homosexual for attention, I hate attention, and I would have come out of the closet long ago had I wanted the attention.

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I hate it when people say "love is love" because it's much easier to say, but much less valid than, "it is not logical for the human race (or some of the human race) to be attracted to the same sex, which doesn't allow for reproduction and doesn't produce further people of race, therefore not allowing it to thrive."

The case of reproduction as an argument is invalid, we have a big world, it is not our duty to have it multiplied, we should according to Genesis, the first book in the bible. But Jesus set only two laws Love God, Love your Neighbor as Yourself... all the law follow under these. Even the Catholic church agrees that God created homosexuals homosexual, so if God created them this way, what would God's reasoning be for not allowing them to have relationships with eachother?  

[stop drop and listen]

If somebody loves another, they should be able to get married, regardless of whether or not they're the same gender.  

[The Lost Desperado]

Why I believe in Pro-Same Sex Marriage:
1. I think all are equal and on a religious basis, I was taught never to judge anyone and personally the book of Leviticus is well irrelevant to Christianity.
2. I love all and personally the oppression is similar to Racism and Slavery but that is considered wrong?
3. Homosexuality is the exact same thing as Heterosexuality except same sex.. Still has love between two people.  

[Twizzle Dizzle Red]

RenFlower

If god doesn't like homosexuals, then why the hell did he make them? Please don't give me that free-will crap. People have no control over those hormones at all. Is is really a sin to love? A sin to be attracted to someone? If that someone happens to be of the same sex? Don't say Satan did it, either. That would mean that love is evil. And that goes against the whole frickin' bible. obviously i'm an athiest, but i don't mean to piss anyone off.

I don't think God made homosexuals. I don't believe that people are born that way. The bible which is the christian religions says that marriage is between a man and a woman. This is what christians believe. Our nation was founded on christian values and morals the bible teaches. I suppose if your not a christian then anything goes. But this is the reason the weirdness of homosexuality and other forms of strange sex are not accepted in this society. There are five states which you can move to now which do accept it as legal and recognize same sex marriage, but the majority of the states do not. Another thing I have a problem with is kids. Now if kids are made by a man and a woman, being of the christian faith and the goodness of the message of the bible, then I think that homosexuals should not be entitled to the privilege of being able to adopt kids or raise kids because I think kids born of a normal couple should be raised with those beliefs and values. If homosexuals want kids then they should live a normal life and not spread the idea that this is some type of ok way of life. I don't believe that they should be entitled to other things as well which are created by normal people. Which is most things in life. Homosexuals know that this type behaviour is not socially acceptable. This is why many of them still hide the fact that they are this way. So they can stay on their side of the fence and I will stay on mine.  

[drewcrew9675]

I dont think their should be same -sex marrage its just wrong and the liberals are incouraging kids in their teens to be gay,bi,lesbian  

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

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I don't think God made homosexuals.

There are more than 1500 species with homosexual behavior reported

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I don't believe that people are born that way.

Evidence points that it is more than likely it is prenatal and genetic than anything.

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The bible which is the christian religions says that marriage is between a man and a woman. This is what christians believe. Our nation was founded on christian values and morals the bible teaches.

Our nation was also founded Religious Freedom. Saying your religion is right, and mine is wrong is okay individually, but the government cannot favor a certain religion. So by saying that because your religion says something and another's doesn't does not justify why it should not be legal/

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I suppose if your not a christian then anything goes.

I am Christian, and not everything goes!

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But this is the reason the weirdness of homosexuality and other forms of strange sex are not accepted in this society.

The American Psychological Association and World Health Organization along with hundreds of other organizations would disagree that homosexuality is "weird" and a "form of strange sex" and would say something more along the lines of it being natural! Now, as to your comment that ties with this "I suppose if you're not..." let's look at historical viewpoints of Christianity not accepted today

I was born king, therefore I get to do what I want by "God's will"
You are an inferior race according to God's scriptures, therefore you can be my slave.
You are not Christian therefore I should kill you.
You are not my race therefore I can own you.
You cannot marry a person of another race.
You cannot have electricity, it is made by the devil.
You cannot listen to Rock music, it is of the devil.
You cannot read a book, it is of the devil.
You cannot watch TV, it is of the devil.

Along with hundreds and hundreds of more. This argument is a logical fallacy!

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There are five states which you can move to now which do accept it as legal and recognize same sex marriage, but the majority of the states do not.

But many are working on legalizing it! I expect that all 50 will be legal within the next two decades.

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Another thing I have a problem with is kids. Now if kids are made by a man and a woman, being of the christian faith and the goodness of the message of the bible, then I think that homosexuals should not be entitled to the privilege of being able to adopt kids or raise kids because I think kids born of a normal couple should be raised with those beliefs and values.

Many of these Christian values are taught by homosexual couples. There are lots of churches that support Gay marriage. Psychology has also shown us that homosexuals live the same lifestyle as a heterosexual couple, other than their sexuality. Children will come out the same way as any other child. I suppose then if a family is infertile, and their religion is Wiccan they cannot raise a child, therefore they cannot adopt, I mean, they can't possibly teach your "Christian" values right? Before you go off stereotyping homosexuals like this you should do some research, dear.

For those who do not know love, do not know God ~ 1st John 4:8

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If homosexuals want kids then they should live a normal life and not spread the idea that this is some type of ok way of life.

Freedom of speech. Homosexuals are less a citizen because of an unpreventable, unchangeable, natural thing?

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I don't believe that they should be entitled to other things as well which are created by normal people. Which is most things in life. Homosexuals know that this type behaviour is not socially acceptable. This is why many of them still hide the fact that they are this way. So they can stay on their side of the fence and I will stay on mine.

Actually, they don't. I believe you have the wrong idea. A freedom is Freedom of Religion, and Freedom of Speech. You are saying that because someone is different they should not have rights, how is this American in any way at all? Take away rights of those that don't believe in what we do! It's what was done to Americans, it's why we revolted. Massachusetts was founded by the religiously persecuted Puritans, Pennsylvania by the Quakers. So, if Hitler got into office, it's justified, because that's what his beliefs, and many of the German's at the time believed was right?

Most homosexuals don't come out because of people like you! They are afraid they will be hated and mistreated, and called a blasphemous person. Interracial couples did not start coming out until the 50s, I suppose they knew they were wrong then too?  

[Raidoactive Kitty]

DEMONKILLER571

I dont think their should be same -sex marrage its just wrong and the liberals are incouraging kids in their teens to be gay,bi,lesbian

How so? Unless you have been overly sheltered we watch the same things. Never once have I seem homosexuality Glamorized. As for it being seen as okay. We still live in a world where you will get attacked for being openly homosexual. And as for you liberals promoting ideas. Remember they also are the ones that had the crazy idea that women are equal and should be able to vote.  

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

Raidoactive Kitty

DEMONKILLER571

I dont think their should be same -sex marrage its just wrong and the liberals are incouraging kids in their teens to be gay,bi,lesbian

How so? Unless you have been overly sheltered we watch the same things. Never once have I seem homosexuality Glamorized. As for it being seen as okay. We still live in a world where you will get attacked for being openly homosexual. And as for you liberals promoting ideas. Remember they also are the ones that had the crazy idea that women are equal and should be able to vote.

Exactly.

Remember DemonKillers571-- Psychological experiments have PROVEN that just because the parents of children are homosexual/bisexual does not mean the children will turn out that way. If that were the case, why are homosexuals coming from heterosexual parents?!  

[Lord Bitememan]

DEMONKILLER571

I dont think their should be same -sex marrage its just wrong and the liberals are incouraging kids in their teens to be gay,bi,lesbian

Do you, personally, feel pressured to be a homosexual? If so, do you feel this pressure is in any way working on you?  

[Lord Bitememan]

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Our nation was founded on christian values and morals the bible teaches.

It was not. Our Constitution was designed based on the principles of an English economist who postulated on how a society ought to best be structured in the context of social contract theory. Social contract theory, in the understanding of the colonies, was a mish-mash of John Locke and Thomas Hobbes, both of whom wrote about the purposes for which man forms society and the tradeoffs that occur to sustain it. Both made mention of God in their writing, but Biblical principle was tangential to anything they actually discussed. The high and mighty rhetoric of "no taxation without representation" drew from the influence of English journalist John Wilkes and his long career campaigning for voting representation in the immediate runup to the Revolution. The founding fathers generally omitted religious references in the founding documents, making mention in the Constitution only in outlining the oath of office. The Constitution then went on to directly stiplulate that Congress would establish no official religion of the United States. See, the Founding Fathers believed in religious freedom above all, as many diverse groups had come to the US seeking the same. Puritans, Anglicans, Catholics, and even Jews had all come to the US in significant number and rather than establish a theological underpinning for the country, the founders chose an Enlightenment path.