|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:57 am
 |
|
|
 |
This is a very long read, but please don't turn away or skip.
Personally, I am shocked that a thread like this doesn't even exist in this guild. (To my knowledge) So bear with me as I make it...for a while it will sound like a personal journal of my religious history.
I'm 17, my mother's side of the family believes in god. (I do not know of my dad's stance or anything on his side) My siblings and I went to and finished CCD, communion, and confirmation. I was too young to comprehend anything about CCD and communion. I just thought it was something I was supposed to do and did it without question. Simple -enough, it was how I was brought up. Young and impressionable, I still believed in Santa, the Tooth Fairy, and therefore "my" faith. I never questioned any of it.
Then as I got older, I was expected to make confirmation after I had finished my CCD classes. I was unenthusiastic and barely knew anything, but the same went for a very large majority of the other kids my age too, so its not like I was acting different.
At this time, as it was just over a year ago, I was well able to comprehend all that was going on.
Honestly, I can't pinpoint the exact moment I "became" an atheist. It's probably true for many of you. I never chose to lose "my" faith. It was just a very gradual realization through logic and acceptance of knowledge. I'm a very good student at school, so comprehending facts, my intelligence, and maturity is a part of me outside of school. And because of this, religion, as Santa, monsters in the closet, and the Toothfairy, became impossible ideals. I found myself questioning the faith I was brought up in. It didn't make sense, the god seemed selfish and "evil", and whenever my mother quoted one of those online daily 'faith quote of the day' things she seemed like, I hate to say it about her, but a little fool. sweatdrop As if she was talking like a six year old child about something imaginary. The same went for any other time I heard someone of faith talk about their god.
My prayers were never answered, I was talking to myself in bed. (I never talked aloud, but recited in my head.) That's when I was slightly younger, until I learned about a remarkable truth about life. My earliest account of it was in 8th grade science class, learning about Charles Darwin and evolution for the first time. I was still learning, so my novice thoughts of evolution were flawed. But that was quickly corrected within a week of in school study. I even remember telling my mom what I had learned that day.
I remember though, when I was still learning about evolution and still not questioning the faith I was brought up in, that I was completely appauled by the thought of someone questioning evolution! Not to mention a group of people. This may have been a turning point, realizing what "idiots" the people were for not accepting a truth. To me at the time, it was like having a group of people not accepting the laws of gravity, rules of math, the earth revolving around the sun, simple facts and truths! Evolution was one of them, so of course I found it funny that people didn't accept it. Again, it was like someone saying they didn't believe in the sun being the center of the solar system when the truth is so plain and clear, physically plain and clear too!
I was not once given a choice to going through with my confirmation by anyone. No one at the church, classes, or family. I made my confirmation when I was a sophomore in school, now I'm a senior in September. I reluctantly went ahead with it.
*-I knew I was lying. I knew I didn't believe in God.
*-But I don't feel I have the right to call myself an atheist yet. So for now I'm an atheist leaning agnostic. sad
*-Why?
-*-Because my family doesn't know.
When I say family, I mean my mother and her side of the family, as I don't know my dad's beliefs and I don't think he'd care, my siblings never asked thought my sister probably knows my doubts, and I'm not in a close relationship with my fathers side. (His mother died when he was young so I have no grandmother on that side, and his sister/my aunt I don't see very much) My mother's side concerns me the most. They aren't "god-warriors" or anything, my immediate family doesn't attend church every week, we haven't since I confirmed actually. But my mother doesn't like my dad/me/my sister say "omg/oh my god/ jesus christ/ goddamn" etc. Though my mom says "oh my god" all the time, and only scolds when she's angry at someone and just wants another reason to be angry. My nanna (my mom's mom), always says "good night god bless" as a goodbye every time I/my family depart.
--------------------------------------
*-So, I guess after all this, my point is, I'm scared of what they'll think of me, how they'll react, and what they'll do. When they find out I don't believe in God. I don't want to disappoint them...
As an honors student, I strive to please others and hate to dissapoint, its just who I am. So please don't tell me I have to "please myself/make myself proud" because that won't help me. I can't do that, it'll just isolate me and make their (what I'm assuming) opposition worse, and I don't want that.
Believe me though, I'm no pushover as what I just typed comes out to be! Yes I aim to please, but I'm true to myself and do many things just for me. (For example, my mom wanted me to go into nursing, she talked about how she' love to brag how I was a nurse in the future, but I said no, it wasn't for me. A perfect example of me not being a pushover, see?)
I talk about evolution and my parents know I want to go into evolutionary biology. They knew my 22 page term paper was evolution vs. creationism. They know my love/obsession of Charles Darwin, and fascination of evolution. It's just that the religion part of it has never been discussed.
I've been reading "The God Delusion" in secret. Hiding it from my mom. I'm not close to reading it partly because of this reason. (And busy with other things)
*-I'm just hoping that my love of evolution has hinted toward, mainly my mother, my views.
*-My biggest fear is picturing someone crying, or even me crying because that would show I am "ashamed".
I fear them being angry, treating me different, and thinking less of me.
*-My biggest wish is for my mom not to overreact, to not get offended, but hear me out. For her to accept me and to know I'm not the way I am out of spite. I never chose to not believe in God. It just happened, all I did was realize that I didn't.
-----------------------------
(The only reaction to atheism I have ever seen with my mom was one time at dinner, but I was at the kitchen sink while my mom, dad, and brother were at the table. The news was on and it was talking about something to do with religion/intelligent design or whatever (i forget) but I only remember my mom giving a disgusted look and saying "Well, some people don't...believe in God." She said "some people" in a disgusted tone and it seemed hard and as if those people were stupid in the pause between: "Don't....believe in God".
I turned around to take in what I saw, and picked out faintly my dad saying something along the lines of "Well theres Santa and..." As if he was opposing my mom, mentioning how Santa/Toothfairy/God are superstitious things. I may be wrong about what my dad meant, but that's what I thought he meant.)
----------------
*-I know its a long read... sad
But I need people....to relate to, to help me out, to tell me they are, or was, in the same exact situation.
*-My plan isn't to go up to my mom and say "I'm an atheist." But maybe rather her ask me, or even better, just ask my my views without her questioning if I'm an atheist or not right off the bat.
*-I don't have the luxury of being brought up in a neutral or atheist family. So you there that are/were in my situation. Please, read this, relate, help, whatever you can.
Thank you. heart
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:06 am
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:37 am
|
|
|
|
JDS, I want to first say that the emotional and psychological struggle you are going through is perfectly normal. I doubt that will make you any less ashamed at times as you try to unlearn some of the programming you have received via your parents and peers in the religion to which your family belongs. However, I hope that someday you will be ready to understand and accept that your struggles and feelings and angst is all quite normal, and you are still a perfectly normal person for struggling through it all.
As to coming out to your parents, to your peers, or to anyone else, I would put forward that a lot has to do with what you intend to do with your life and how. Do you wish to lean towards idealism, realism, pragmatism, or some other guiding principle? That may tell you much about what you want to do in regards to declaring your atheism.
For example, if you live comfortably at home and that is more important to you than forcing your parents to acknowledge your atheism, you may just keep it to yourself while enjoying the comforts of being cared for. I know that sounds incredibly self-serving, but would it not be your parents responsibility and duty to not hold care of you over your head as a means to coerce your beliefs? It is not necessarily your job to fuel your parents potential bigotry, especially when it may be turned against you.
On the other hand, living with such a secret can cause you to fall into depression. Also, by living secretly as atheists, I think we do more to embolden and encourage religious bigotry. So, if you think yourself prepared to accept the consequences of coming out to your parents and peers, then by all means do so. Just realize that if things turn sour, it may be the price you have to pay for honesty and intellectual freedom.
As to how you come out if you choose to do so, I recommend that you study, think, study, think, study, think . . . and only then make sweeping claims. Healthy atheism is derived from scientific inquiry, rationalism, and skepticism. Thus, it would be terribly hypocritical to assert as infallibly true that which we do not actually know about. For example, I am much stronger on the theories surrounding evolution (I am an anthropologist) than I am on cosmology. Therefore, I do feel comfortable engaging in discourse about evolutionary biology, but not so much about the Big Bang (which is not to say I don't discuss it at all). But, understand that if your stand as an atheist is challenged, your best tool will be knowledge and reason.
In as much as you should hold yourself to a high standard of learning and reason, expect the same from others who you may be coming out to and who may be challenging you. If a question does not have an immediate answer, do not be afraid to tell a person that you will have to look into it further before commenting. Furthermore, don't allow people to get away with stating the illogical, irrational, and unsupportable as true. If they can't back up their arguments, then their arguments are not a valid challenge of your position as an atheist.
Finally, be patient, both with yourself and with others. You aren't going to make your family change overnight, and you aren't going to necessarily understand yourself and all of what you are feeling and thinking overnight either. There will be good days, and there will be bad days. But, unless you live in even more repressive parts of the world, life will go on. Take deep breaths, take things a day at a time, and accept that becoming who you want to be and sorting out the relationship you will have with your parents and your peers is going to be an effort made over time.
I do wish you the best, and, of course, you are always welcome to come seek solace and refuge with your fellow atheists.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:43 am
|
|
|
|
Well, I'd say lie. Personally, I don't atheism as part of my identity, so I rarely feel the need to bring up any subject about it or any other religion. I will occasionally go to church with friends, just to be part of their "god group" despite not actually believing. I've told my parents about how I liked The God Delusion, but I never got around to saying "I'm atheistic" They know, though.
If you absolutely must get it off your chest and let the world know you don't believe in the Tooth Fairy, Santa, or God, then do it in an uncombative way. Let people know gradually. Mention Dawkins in passing, share your passion for science, or speak about some of the good people you know or heard of that are atheists. You may have to stand up and firmly say you're an atheist, but only if there aren't any other choices.
Then again, you know your family better than anyone else, so you should know best how to deal with them.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:35 am
|
|
|
|
I'll keep this brief, so you can make the considerations on your own.
Honestly, the best course of action would be to bite the bullet and admit to your family and close friends that you have converted (for lack of a better term) to Atheism. If they truly care about you, that won't matter to them. If they become disrespectful or hostile towards you because of it, then frankly, they weren't worth knowing in the first place. You haven't done anything wrong - it's not your fault if they choose to ostracize you for it.
Although all of that may be excessive, and it may seem best to take the path of least resistance, I can say with confidence it is all worth it. Living a lie and hiding your true self is worse than any bulling or discrimination anyone else could throw at you.
In addition, remind them that family is obligated to unconditional love, and has been since your birth. Discriminating against you for your religion (or lack thereof) is one of the most lazy and cowardly acts one can commit, because it says, "I love you only if you're exactly what I want you to be. Otherwise, I hate you because I don't care about you enough to love you no matter what."
If I crossed the line in the aforementioned advice, I apologize. However, that's my advice to you - best of luck!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:59 am
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:34 am
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:39 am
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:16 am
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:07 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:31 pm
|
|
|
|
ProjectOmicron88 If you honestly don't believe your father has an opinion on the issue, I would confide in him first and ask for advice. Even if your relationship with his side is not that strong, you're still young (hell, we all are), and have plenty of time to improve upon that. A great start is showing that you have confidence enough in him to keep a secret, which any loving parent would do for a child. I think you should be sure he's indifferent towards atheism before you talk to him about it, though, because, as with anything in life, it never hurts to be too certain.
I've been thinking the same things. Asking him his stance on evolution and stuff and a start, since he knows how passionate I am about it. :} |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:34 pm
|
|
|
|
banryuu Well you've gotten alot of good advice. Keep your head down till you are ready to move out or test the waters before coming out in the open. What ever you do be sure to let them know that... 1) this is not a new delvelopment, but a part of who you are. 2) you respect their belifes even if they are not your own. 3) Being athist does not change your morals and values that your loving family has instilled in you. I'm reminded of a term from public speaking class... Every person has their own Frame of Referance. It is the way they see the world based on their; belifes, morals, code of ethics, or experiances. No two people see the world the same. So few people interpert things in the same manner. You seem smart, calm, and logical. You have a good head on your sholders. I know you fear the loss of closeness with your family. I wish you the best luck and hope that they (atlest your emidiate family) can and will except you for who you are. (P.S The one person who said Lie... bad choice... that always hurts both sides more.)
Yes, the three points you said I have been thinking about as well. I want them to know I've been this way for over five years, so obviously nothing is changing except for the fact that they know.
I'm content keeping my head down and keeping to myself. But of course, as always, it would be a lot easier if they knew! xd |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:45 pm
|
|
|
|
Let me state some sound advice from the christian sides of things.
First off....I'm not going to sugar coat or pretend that I know what you're going through because I'm not atheist. However....
What I CAN relate to is the situation of either presenting yourself the way people WANT to see you vs presenting yourself as who you ARE and not what people want you to be.
As I'm sure thousands of other outsiders have dealt with in middle school years is the verbal or physical abuse of little pieces of s**t who call themselves kids. They couldn't except me for who I was and I'll never forgive them for etc etc reason.
However, no matter what they said or did to me, I was ado mint on being myself, to NEVER conform. I was too stubborn too, even if it hurt me and led me to making the biggest mistake in my life thus far.......I was true to myself.
True to thine own self....and overlooked statement by a great man we know as Shakespeare....he also quoted how we are but puppets on the stage called life, and we must but play the game or we'll lose.
To point to all this babbling? And this is coming from a CORRECT christian stand point, if you're parents or at least you're mom is a TRUE christian, she will love you regardless of who you are. God loves everyone and teaches us one of the commandments as love thy neighbor, or to treat others as you would be treated...the famous golden rule. If she is the REAL type of christian she should be, she'll accept you for who you are, for you are a gift from God to HER whether you believe in God or not. He brought you into this world and she bore you from her wound...if she loves you, then you shouldn't fear telling you who you really are.
However.....in MOST cases...in EVERY case I've heard, either being gay or atheist, when its time to "come out" most cases I've heard is the parents retaliating. Why? Because you're "their baby". And most of you're typical parent-child stories I've heard through the years is them having problems with their parents. This is something I also can't relate in because I've never had these problems with my dad, whom I've lived with the most since the divorce in 95. I've never had rebellion problems or being grounded or what not because my dad treated me like an adult, showed my opinion MATTERED and that he loves me no matter what I was.
The point to THAT babbling.......look at it this way. Be true to thine own self but you have to consider who YOU are. And what I mean by that is, what you can mentally handle. Out of all the advice given in this thread thus far, its all sound advice, but you also have to take into consideration that all of us are giving you advice from how WE see things, from what WE experienced.
Just because we can handle X situation this or X situation that, doesn't mean you'll be able to do the same. I'm not trying to berate you or anything, but consider the consequences. If you TRULY FEEL that you won't be able to handle what you're mom might do or say if she found out you're atheist....then keep it a secret...at least for as long as you can.
If you DO feel you can handle it no matter how tough it gets, then by all means tell her. But if you can't...."when in doubt stay OUT", thats what my father always said to me.
Ask yourself these questions before proceeding with anything....assuming you haven't said anything by the time you read this:
1) How well can you handle stress? (this is no joke...CONSIDER this carefully) If you can't handle stress well and you feel people will retaliate because you KNOW how Christians can be....I KNOW how conservative arrogant Christians can be and trust me its not pretty.
2)Do you truly care about what others think of you're beliefs (just asking in general, not trying to berate you're mom or anything) but if you do...then maybe its sound to keep quiet if you can. If not then tell them.
3)How much does you're home environment mean to you? This ties in with the amount of stress you can handle because think of it this way, if you have to deal with crap in the world, the only sanctuary is usually you're home. But if there's crap at home and crap in the world you have to deal with.....then you might be dealing with more than you can handle.
Out of all of this in a nutshell, I know its a long post and I might be making this a bigger deal for you to consider than it really is, but out of the 21 years of my life, I've learned to pay attention to detail and really THINK about making a decision before I make it.
Conservative christian families, especially catholics, are not as forgiving as Christians SHOULD be. They like to twist the words of the bible to their own beliefs and misrepresent the bible to their own view and thus creating stress, havoc, and chaos. EXAMPLE: days of burning witches, protests against gays...etc...etc
I don't know you're family or relatives or friends so I'm giving you sound advice thats coming from all angles of this situation, and it would be logically wise to at least consider what I've said before you proceed forward. But you have already done so then well....guess this will be good sound advice for anyone who ends up in this situation.
lol i hope at least most of that made sense and it helps at all. heart heart good luck bro
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:21 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:17 pm
|
|
|
|
We do have a topic on this. It's located here. I'll share with you what I said there.
Theophrastus Well, my tale may not seem one of encouragement, but it is. If you check my introduction thread you can find the details of it. Short version is this: at the beginning of the day I felt I could safely say I had 30 or more close, trustworthy friends and a caring grandparent. My friends, all of whom were made through the same church, were fine with me being an Atheist, but rejected me upon my admission of bisexuality. My grandparent could accept my bisexuality but was appalled that I denied God. The end result was that I was reduced to two timid friends and no home by the end of that night. Interestingly enough, before that I needed all those people to constantly tell me its okay, I'm right, this is the correct lifestyle (being a heterosexual Christian), yet I was full of doubt. Yet, with none of those people in my life, now, I'm more sure than ever that I'm living a great life, and can sleep peacefully and look myself in the mirror and smile. If knowing and accepting yourself, seeing through the tricks of charlatans and understanding the magnificence of the universe without the intoxication of hate-fueled tribal doctrines would be described as a "wasting" my life, then I shudder to think what an applied life might be. My support is here for any of you who are worried about "coming out" and finding confidence in your Atheism, please don't hesitate to PM me.
I'll add to this that I was raised in a Christian Conservative culture in small-town Texas, so I'm very familiar with the lashes and blades of societal rejection. I wasn't ready to leave everyone, but after being effectively disowned I had nothing to stay for. The people who rejected me are an extreme example and the same may not happen to you (I truly hope it doesn't), but ultimately you don't have to prepare yourself for love and acceptance, but for the worst circumstance.
I'd say that if you feel the time is coming close to when you have to come out as an Atheist, you'd do well to prepare some arguments for how atheists can be moral, good people without religion. The number one argument I hear against Atheism is, "Atheists have no morals/hope because they don't have religion."
There are tons of great arguments for Atheists with morals, and I suggest you browse the treads here and at Atheistnation.net for more info. Particularly this post in a thread at AN. Beware, the tactics used by my friend Mike are rather combative and blunt, but no less valid because of it.
PM me any time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
