Girl Power

[SYFFER]

Something I've noticed in Tolkien's works is how some females recieve greater importance than their male companions.

Varda, for example, receives more praise and respect than Manwe, who happens to be the King of the Elder Gods. She is the one the Elves pray to and answers their prayers with generosity and care. While Manwe holds incredible worth, he is undermined by the greatness of Varda.

Galadriel is another significant female that far out-ranks her lord Celeborn. While she shares royal power with Celeborn, she is far greater. She is the keeper of the Elven ring of water which grants her amazing power. She is the keeper of the mirror with wich she is able to see different significant images in time. If all that was not enough, she is the daughter of Finarfin, kin to Thingol, and grandmother to Arwen. Celeborn is comparably insignificant.

Arwen's heritage is perhaps her greatest significance. She is the daughter of Elrond, lord of Rivendell, son of Earendil the savior of both Elves and Men, and brother to Elros the first king of Numenore. The fact that she has the blood of Elven kings, Maiar, and great kings of Men qualifies her as one of the most important figures in Middle-earth. She holds much greater significance than Aragorn in terms of lineage.

Melian is definitely more powerful than Thingol. Not only is she a Maia, and the only one to pass on the divine blood into the blood of Men and Elves, she also protected her kingdom with her enchanted girdle. Melian was a great figure considering she was the ancestor of most of the heros and saviors of Middle-earth. Thingol was merely an Elf with significant heritage and was as powerful and weak as most of the other Elven kings of old.

There are several other examples of this pattern in Tolkien's works. My question is, why did Tolkien choose to give these specific females such great significance while their spouses held less? Was this a method used to portray the importance of females in Middle-earth or was it simply a way to balance out power to prevent discrimination?  

[Hironaur]

I voted Luthien. Alot of my reasoning is that she was based off his wife. And, everyone knows of her. I don't have much reasoning tonight, it's midnight and I think I'm going to bed now. I'll probably be back tomorrow to explain better. Nice topic though!

:EDIT: I'm back this morning, and wow, that sounds so stupid. I was really tired. Anyway, I'd say she beats Arwen because she and Arwen did pretty much the same thing, but Luthien was first. Man, the more I think about it, I can't really decide. Galadriel was also very significant what with coming to Middle-earth and all. Eowyn helped to defeat the Witchking, but didn't do it all by herself. Now what I meant last night about Luthien being based off of Tolkien's wife. Even if she wasn't the most significant to the story, she was probably the most significant to Tolkien. I know if I based a character after someone I knew and loved, I'd make them important.

Meh, I don't know.  

[SYFFER]

Hironaur

I voted Luthien. Alot of my reasoning is that she was based off his wife. And, everyone knows of her. I don't have much reasoning tonight, it's midnight and I think I'm going to bed now. I'll probably be back tomorrow to explain better. Nice topic though!

Interesting. Why would that make her the most significant to Middle-earth?  

[Rhaella]

SYFFER, you left out "sister of Finrod" in your praises of Galadriel. xd

I also voted Luthien; my choice was basically between her and Idril, who as the mother of Earendil was pretty important. That Luthien was able to defeat Morgoth, if only for a while (something that none of the male characters managed) clearly displays her importance.

Perhaps Melian should be added to your list as well; like Galadriel she was significantly more powerful than her husband, and she was very influential in the First Age.

It's interesting, as you said, how much more powerful some of these women seem than their male counterparts. Perhaps it is to counterbalance with the much greater number of powerful male figures?  

[SYFFER]

Ofocurse! How could I forget Melian! stressed Thank you.  

[Falathrim]

Well, Luthien is described as the greatest of the Eldar at some point or other.

...then again, so is Feanor and Thingol. confused

Tolkien isn't the sort of author to give woman important roles just so he can balance out gender importance. He writes for a reason, not to avoid cries of SEXIST and RACIST.

This post sucks.  

[Ithilvalan]

Yeah. Like Fala said, in those days, there wouldn't exactly be an outcry raised about sexism.

The females listed, aside from Varda, were all more powerful than their spouses. But it is said in the Sils that Morgoth fears Varda more than any other of the Vala. Which makes me wonder.....why?

Galadriel is another one of the described 'mighty' of the Noldor.

Erm...so basically this is me contributing nothing to the idea...  

[Rhaella]

Yoh-ko Rapper Ithilvalan

The females listed, aside from Varda, were all more powerful than their spouses. But it is said in the Sils that Morgoth fears Varda more than any other of the Vala. Which makes me wonder.....why?

Morgoth fears a couple of people more than anyone else. And quite a few Elves are the "fairest" of the Eldar, or the Noldor, or whatever. Quite amusing. xd

About Varda, an interesting quote from Myths Transformed, pg380:

"To Varda Iluvatar said: 'I will give unto thee a parting gift. Thou shalt take into Ea a light that is holy, coming new from Me, unsullied by the thought and lust of Melkor, and with thee it shall enter into Ea, and be in Ea, but not of Ea.' Wherefore Varda is the most holy and revered of all the Valar, and those that name the light of Varda name the love of Ea that Eru has, and they are afraid, less only to name the One."

That probably has something to do with the fear Morgoth has for Varda.

Then again, if we're simply comparing spouses, it's really no wonder. If Iwere Melkor, there's no way I'd be afraid of Manwe.  

[Falathrim]

Lindelea

Then again, if we're simply comparing spouses, it's really no wonder. If Iwere Melkor, there's no way I'd be afraid of Manwe.

xp

Sadly, the light that Varda was given lives on only in the Silmarils.

Varda used the light to kindle the Sun. Morgoth sullied that light; but not before the Two Trees were able to grow in Valinor. Then Ungoliant destroyed that light; but not before Feanor crafted the Silmarils.

This concludes today's off-topic history lesson for those who haven't read Myths Transformed.  

[SYFFER]

Considering the fact Tolkien wrote most of his works before the emergence of women's movements may indicate that he did not give the females such importance in fear of being prosecuted or rejected, but genuinely wanted to give females the significance they deserve. Therefore, Tolkien is definitely not sexist 3nodding  

[Rudhe]

There are also plenty of major males roles though aka Aragorn (pretty obvious there), Gilgalad, Gandalf, Elrond etc. Also notice that your female example are either goddesses or elves. Perhaps its showing that only humans have gender discrimination.  

[churrlo]

I think it was more of a balance... to show that not only males can do great things. There are plenty of females who can achieve great things, it doesn't have to be a man. I think maybe that's what he wanted to do.  

[Rudhe]

hmmm, what year was the book written in? do you know? For him to write on with something about the gender issues in society...rather insightful. Although the fellowship was all male...and I don't remember seeing any females in the secret council.  

[churrlo]

Hmm... wasn't it around one of the world wars? I'm not sure which one or if I'm even right whee  

[Rudhe]

Wow that was a really long time ago.....must have a look at his biography sometime....

I wish we were studying him at school, but my English teacher is only interested in teaching us stuff from Australia....