Well, I absolutely hate religion.

[Aaron Lee Morrison]

Avoir Le Retour...

Now, this is not to say that I hate religious people, because I do not. But I hate religion. Before, I looked at religion as a mediocrity, and a bit of a nuisance, but I didn't hate it. Now? I hate it. Religion is the biggest separation of humanity, it causes the bulk of all wars, it leads people to illogical thoughts and/or even to insanity, and what good has it honestly done for people? Given them hope? Maybe. What more?

Discuss

...Les Adieux

 

[Tenth Speed Writer]

Religion is the effect, not the cause.  

[Kharybuce]

I agree with Tenth. Religion is man made, so it's a representation of an aspect of humanity. When you say you hate religion, what you're really saying is you hate man's desire to control people by enforcing a philosophy with mythic consequences. Illogicality, bigotry, insanity: these all already existed. Whether they were justified by novels, films, video games, race movements, or religion, they are still out there and would find a way to surface one way or another.


But then again, I have my days when I just feel like I hate religion too.  

[Absolute_Chaos56]

The only reason someone could hate religion, And I mean really hate it, is if they personally had a bad expirience with it.
Someone has used the bible or something to control you personally. To an extent.
Whereas religion gives people hope to do the things that they believe they can do, We cannot hate that. Everyone has to respect eachother or wars will start anyway regardless of whether anybody in it is religous.
I agree that religion is the main cause of wars. But not all.

Some people need their lease in life. If that lease is religion, then I'm not going to stand in their way and they have to accept the cause and effect of their judgement. If they want to live their lives in fear of the apocolypse. Then so be it, but I'm going to enjoy my life seen as its the only one I'm getting.

EDIT: Sorry I realised I mispelled religion loads of times in this post >.<  

[Aaron Lee Morrison]

Avoir Le Retour...

Well, I suppose I should have said more of 'I hate what religion does to people', because that is what I meant. Sorry for not elaborating.

...Les Adieux

 

[Tenth Speed Writer]

And like I said... it's just the fruition of flaws we already have.  

[[x] Natasha [x]]

That scared me a bit....only 'cause you sounded EXACTLY like my boyfriend just then.


.....scary.

 

[Aaron Lee Morrison]

Tenth Speed Writer

Religion is the effect, not the cause.

Avoir Le Retour...

In a way, true. Religion is the effect of humanity's urge to control and dominate, etc.,etc.; and yet, separation, hate, murder, and brainwashing is the effect of religion.

...Les Adieux

 

[Kharybuce]

Les Adieux

Tenth Speed Writer

Religion is the effect, not the cause.

Avoir Le Retour...

In a way, true. Religion is the effect of humanity's urge to control and dominate, etc.,etc.; and yet, separation, hate, murder, and brainwashing is the effect of religion.

...Les Adieux

Well, once again, I think the point he and I were trying to make is that even if there was no religion, people would seperate, hate, murder, and brainwash for any other reason. I mean, we do it now. People seperate, hate, muder, and brainwash through race, morals, nationality, even social status, and in some extreme cases hair color, and month of birth. The point is, all that evil already exists, it's just that religion is a convenient medium through wich to enact such desires. Even in a world devoid of religion, you're still gonna have all those things, they'll just be supported by different ideals.  

[fhbnfghnbfgbsnbg]

Well, religion is good in some areas because it binds people together.
And it can help communitites. Example, a lot of people probably wouldn't kill, steal, etc. because the Bible tells them not to.
I agree that in most cases, it screws things up, but it can be helpful.
It creates tight communities. Church communities. You meet people there, and generally they're nice.
It gives people something to do with their lives. Something to look forward to. If life sucks here on earth, wouldn't you be happier if you had something to look forward to in the afterlife?
If no one loved you here on earth, then you could, I suppose, acknowlege that Jesus is always there for you.

Of course, I don't believe in any of it, but it does bring many together. I mean, your average Christian church is not going to go out and wage war upon the Islamic community nearby, is it?  

[AnonymouZ]

Tenth Speed Writer

And like I said... it's just the fruition of flaws we already have.

Ahh, i see i'm not the ONLY one trolling other people's topics with 1-2 sentences in my posts that try to impose my opinion as absolute. Tee hee hee, i guess i'm not alone! heart

But back to the topic, which, i will try to DISCUSS.

I hate religion too. Religious people included, but then again, i hate people in general, so it's not an exclusive kind of thing.

While it may be true what you have said Dathu, (aka Kharybuce-aka what's your real name?) I slightly disagree with you.

Yes. We are almost hateful towards anything that symbolizes our opposite in society. Or... not just the opposite... but those that might deviate a little from what we would call "perfect life" or other words... living in harmony with OUR idea of living in harmony.

BUT. This new version of religion, with a savior and loving god that would love it if you taught those heathens whose god-version is the real one... has got to be the most retarded YET.

It teaches people to give into being poor, because they are going to be rewarded in heaven anyway.

It teaches them that being obedient without reason is the best you could do.

Its archbishops burn condoms in the continent with the highest levels of HIV.

It inspires people to occupy (illegally or otherwise) land that didn't belong to them. (not talking about Iraq here)

And it inspires to fight those that oppress them by blowing themselves up, among the other things in what we know HAS to be a grander and elegant list.

AND it's almost like you guys are JUSTIFYING all this. Yes, we created this bullshit to begin with, but with no religious argument THEN order, justice and "peace" might find a faster way to get to these places that need it.

Of course, they will find a way to tear themselves apart again. We always do and always will, but that doesn't mean that WE should still justify (or wallow in our "helplessness" while we stare at) this petty, retarded philosophy that rules the lives of all those people.

It's like looking a person holding on to a crutch for dear life, even tho we all know his feet are perfectly able to hold him and getting him to places. No crutch needed. Are you telling me that if i just grew up attached to my blankey i should hold on to it for the rest of my life? Even tho i outgrew it?

C'mon, now. stare

We are talking about RELIGION here. Not the human nature that inspired it.  

[Kharybuce]

Oh no, no, no! I'd never justify religion. Far from it. I am just explaining that it is an aspect of human nauture. Firstly, I think hate's a harsh word, and it's usually fuled by ignorance (btw, I mean the litteral deffinition of "ignorance", not the as the more common missused version as a synonym for "stupid"), not that I'm calling anyone that, since I think we can all agree we're simply debating opinion, and with the best intentions in mind. smile Anyway, as I said, I feel religion is a part of the human condition, and therefore to hate religion is to hate that part of the human condition. Now if you're just talking about Christianity and Christian like religions, then I would agree that they are amoung the most foolish, but that only shows how foolish people in general can be. We're all human, and as such, just as much a part of the problem as the solution.

What I am saying is that I don't see his point about religion being to blame, and I have said that there are days when I too say that I hate religion, but that's always in the heat of the moment. In the end, I am of the opinion that to hate anything is the result of ignorance which is a lack of understanding of what it is that you find intolerable. And that doesn't just apply to religion, I think it applies to everything. I am simply an Atheist, not an anti-theist.


Now, I don't post expecting anyone to agree with me. I'm just stating my two-cents for the sake of debate. So I'm sorry if I seemed like I was trying to impose my way of thinking. And I do see where you're commin' from too.  

[AnonymouZ]

Kharybuce

Oh no, no, no! I'd never justify religion. Far from it. I am just explaining that it is an aspect of human nauture. Firstly, I think hate's a harsh word, and it's usually fuled by ignorance (btw, I mean the litteral deffinition of "ignorance", not the as the more common missused version as a synonym for "stupid"), not that I'm calling anyone that, since I think we can all agree we're simply debating opinion, and with the best intentions in mind. smile Anyway, as I said, I feel religion is a part of the human condition, and therefore to hate religion is to hate that part of the human condition. Now if you're just talking about Christianity and Christian like religions, then I would agree that they are amoung the most foolish, but that only shows how foolish people in general can be. We're all human, and as such, just as much a part of the problem as the solution.

What I am saying is that I don't see his point about religion being to blame, and I have said that there are days when I too say that I hate religion, but that's always in the heat of the moment. In the end, I am of the opinion that to hate anything is the result of ignorance which is a lack of understanding of what it is that you find intolerable. And that doesn't just apply to religion, I think it applies to everything. I am simply an Atheist, not an anti-theist.


Now, I don't post expecting anyone to agree with me. I'm just stating my two-cents for the sake of debate. So I'm sorry if I seemed like I was trying to impose my way of thinking. And I do see where you're commin' from too.

It wasn't you who i was referring in my first sentences. You clearly seem to be eager to explain your point, not just force it with a dogmatic kind of sentence in a single post. But nevermind that.

Yes, it's human nature that gets us to believe in AND create religions. But just because we created the monster, it doesn't mean that WE should get blamed for it.

Who are we to blame if we think that by ridding ourselves of this mind-virus that we would be better off? I think that's why the use of the word "hate" comes into play. At least in my opinion, since i can't talk for the topic's starter.

When i say i hate it, i could be saying that without it, the world would be far better than what it is now. And before anyone comes up with the "but people NEED religion" argument, let me slap you ahead of time. *SLAP!*

Yes, people that has been taught (or brainwashed, depending on how you think this religion-idea spreads) to LIVE with religion would not be able to exist in a world without it, which is why in a world without religion there WOULDN'T be that kind of people to begin with. domokun  

[Kharybuce]

Okay. sorry if I put words in your mouth. I see what you mean, but I don't think the world would be better without religion. I know I'd personally like the world better without religion, but I think it would be more like this: Having religion is like living in a room with only one window, only bread to eat, in a constantly cold temperature, and with black walls. You say "Goddamnit, I hate these black walls! This room would be so much nicer with a btter color." So then you remove religion and the walls become a light blue. Now, although true the room doesn't look as dismal, but you're still stuck in a room with only one window, bread to eat, and are constantly cold. I mean, I would like to live in a place with no religion, cause I think it's a nicer environment, but the world would be the same. You'd still have biggots, racists, sexists, rapists, idiots, and assholes. I just don't think it would be much different, just deviod of the one thing that bugs us. But ya never know, until we can actually try this theory, it might. I just doubt it. confused

Edit: Oh yeah, I'm prolly eager cause it has been a LONG time since I've been in a debate. I like to debate. ninja  

[Sanguvixen]

I read through the different posts, and I guess I'll put my two cents in here for what it is worth.

Hate is a strong word. Hate, you can't hate without having a good reason, you know? For instance, I tend to say that I hate my dad, stupid b*****d that he is. I like to think that I have good reason for it.

When I stop to think about it, as a person he is not that bad. It is parts of him, that I hate. The way he is, controlling, illogical, cruel, and mean. Sometimes though, he does show some good. Sometimes good does come through. He really does care about me, to a point, but there are other parts of him that get in the way. He loves me, but he also loves to control people, so he wants to be able to control me. It's why I don't live with him.

That is the way it is with religion I guess. It's a relationship not too different than the one I have with my dad.

Religion is an aspect of humanity that was dreamed up by people in order to make sense of thier world. In the beginning, it does not seem that war and religion were to go together hand in hand. That was the time of Polytheism, where everyone believed in the possibility of multiple gods. If you already believe in a whole pantheon, it is all to easy to not let religion become something that seperates you. If you come across a strange god from a different religion, adopt it, into your pantheon. Borrowing of gods happened quite frequently back then. When war was fought it was fought for better reasons, I suppose. No so much about beliefs, but about territory, money, and land.

When Monotheism came into our world, and grew strong, it was the end of the golden age of religion. When you only believe in one god, you reject all others, and so it becomes all to easy to turn it into a thing that seperates people, and all too easy to turn it into a thing that controls people.

It is the part of Monotheism that I think many of us despise. That part of it that reject all that is different. That part that can be used to control people and make them commit illogical fallacies, and atrocities in the name of a single god.

Look at the Crusades. The first three were about religion. After that it was about money and wealth. Yet the soldiers thought it was a religious cause they were fighting. You know that battle, of the Crusades has never ended. Christianity and Islam still sort of fight, sometimes violently today.

You cannot really hate religion for how people use it. Religion only ever became a bad thing used for horrible things when Monotheism came about. It has become a cruel, mean, controlling force just like my father. However, just like my father, sometimes good does manage to peek it's head out, and warm the hearts of those nearby.

I cannot hate religion, or even really hate religious people. I simply strongly have an aversion to the things about modern religion that is so much like my father. I distance myself becuase it is the only way I can life, just as I distance myself with my father.

I think that is important to remember before deciding you hate religion. You are only really hating certain mechanics that are prominent in the monotheism today. Religion wasn't always that way, and didn't even start that way.