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 Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:48 am
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Please leave comments!
The topic here “Men vs Women” motivated me to make this post. Please read all of it, especially if you plan to leave a comment.
I want to share my views on gender with everyone here, since it’s a view I've put a lot of thought into and strongly believe needs to be more commonly adopted. You hear people say "we're all human" a lot but just saying that really isn't all that helpful, we need to develop a better understanding of it.
Sorry in advance for any spelling/grammatical errors since this is going to be long and I probably won't catch them all.
Let me start off by explaining my problem with feminists and many other activist organizations.
One of the worst and most blatant sexist injustices enforced by the USA on its citizens is the Selective Services… yet you rarely ever hear about it. Women’s rights organizations came out in a heartbeat against David Letterman for making a six second joke about Sarah Palin’s daughter… (never mind how many jokes have been made about young boys being molested by Michael Jackson...) but they’re oddly silent about either abolishing the Selective Services, making it completely volunteer, or also forcing women to join up. Of course there can be individual reasons for people that would prevent them from being drafted, which should then include pregnancy or recent childbirth for women. However, there is no reason for women to be exempt. There are male organizations that do the same thing, people need to fight for true gender equality not fight things they dislike only because it effects their gender, while ignoring the other side... which in itself is sexist.
Everyone is an individual and you should never buy into the gender roles society has placed for us. Obviously there are biological differences between men and women but there are biological differences between everyone. You should always avoid generalizations, and try to reject the sociological perspective, which seems to train the mind to make assumptions about people before you even know them.
Generalizations are one of the worst things we can do, even if it is true “on average” then you should always make sure to include “on average” in your comment. Here are a few common ones. “Men are better than women at math” or “Women are better at multi-tasking than men” Everyone probably has heard these at some point in their lives, and it should annoy every single person even if its in favor of your own gender. When you word things like that, even though people are usually aware it is just an average, it still suggests someone is going to be better at something else just because of their gender... which is of course completely untrue.
Stereotypes and assumptions are another big issue. For instance, how many people have heard that men think about sex every 30 seconds? (There are several versions of that with different times) How many of you are aware that there is absolutely no scientific data to back that statement up? In fact there have been anonymous surveys that show this is completely untrue. The surveys show that on average younger men think about sex about twice a day, and this decreases as men age to the point they think about sex once every 2 days or more. But it is widely considered a fact that men are pretty much constantly thinking about sex. There are many stereotypes/generalizations/urban myths etc for both genders that people need to question the authenticity, as well as try to catch themselves when they think it.
This is the point where people’s image of me starts to include a tinfoil hat…
I believe in as little gender categorizations as possible.
I am a strong advocate for unisex everything. I think all bathrooms and dressing rooms should be unisex, the thought of this may make people uncomfortable (what if you have to poop!) but the reality of the matter is, this is one of those things where once the walls come down it probably won’t be an issue. After all, there are homosexuals… and it doesn’t seem to be an issue. Also, this would make life a lot easier for anyone who is transgender.
Our language (all languages) seriously must be changed, although this would definitely not be an easy task, especially because of literature. But think about it, when you hear someone talking about someone else on the phone usually within seconds you’ll know what the gender of that person is.
“he” “she” “him” “her” “waiter” “waitress” and yes… even words like “mom” “dad” “brother” “sister” “wife” “husband” etc etc all of these need to be abolished from our language (and replaced with unisex words obviously) if we can ever hope for men and women to truly be equal in society. “Separate but equal” doesn’t work. If this were attempted today then it would likely be an impossible task, but for the sake of equality this must eventually be done.
Edit: I should have explained this better. Any psychologist will tell you that the way we speak largely influences the way we think. By constantly differentiating between gender when we speak it essentially trains our thoughts to place more importance on gender than necessary. I'm sorry I didn't make that clear.
There is a lot more I would like to add to this but it’s very long already, so I’m going to end with this. (it’s another tinfoil hat moment)
I believe once people understand that we are a very rough form of what we could be, then a lot of our negative views towards differences will start to fade away, since people will realize that they are only temporary and it is our goal to get rid of them. I don’t think it is unreasonable to think that one day there could be no differences between someone born male or born female. I believe in the future, with the progression of science and increased work towards things like transhumanism, then it will be possible to transfer someone from one body to another. Meaning, in theory, a man and a woman could both have themselves (self awareness) transferred to the exact same model of body/mind/whatever that would then become their host.
It may sound crazy, but again, I don’t think the possibility is unreasonable.
I don't know, maybe its just me... but when I think about it like that it really makes me realize how irrelevant gender and most other biological differences really are.
I hope at the very least this has caused some people to think about their own views. I'm extremely sorry if anyone feels I wasted their time. Thanks for reading, and let me know what you guys think.
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Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:58 pm
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Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:24 am
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Well, that's very well thought out. I don't happen to agree with you on all points. I agree that sexism is completely stupid. I like the unisex bathrooms idea, I'd be fine with that, it would make people MORE comfortable with their bodies.
I, however, completely disagree with the abolition of words like "he" and "she", because I happen to like there being separate genders. It is part of my identity, my gender identity. I like being classified as female. I wouldn't want it any other way. Also, getting rid of words like Mom and Dad, just makes me a little sad. Because I don't want to have a child one day that will call me Karen. I want her to call me Mommy.
Transgender, androgyne and intersex people will love this idea. It would make the world fit to their standards. However, most people would be opposed to it. Most of them violently so. I just think this plan would need a lot more work before even being considered to be put into motion.
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Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:01 am
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Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:53 am
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MissDemeter Well, that's very well thought out. I don't happen to agree with you on all points. I agree that sexism is completely stupid. I like the unisex bathrooms idea, I'd be fine with that, it would make people MORE comfortable with their bodies. I, however, completely disagree with the abolition of words like "he" and "she", because I happen to like there being separate genders. It is part of my identity, my gender identity. I like being classified as female. I wouldn't want it any other way. Also, getting rid of words like Mom and Dad, just makes me a little sad. Because I don't want to have a child one day that will call me Karen. I want her to call me Mommy. Transgender, androgyne and intersex people will love this idea. It would make the world fit to their standards. However, most people would be opposed to it. Most of them violently so. I just think this plan would need a lot more work before even being considered to be put into motion.
Agreed, I don't think its a realistic possibility, in fact we will probably figure out how to manipulate humans to the point where gender doesn't matter before we completely change our language, which would then making changing the language rather moot. However any psychologist will tell you language has a large impact on how we think, so when we are constantly differentiating between gender when we speak we're essentially making us more separate than we otherwise would be. |
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Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:57 am
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XWraith_LordX I disagree with you on revising the language part. Words like "he" and "she" and "waiter" and "waitress" are necessary distinctions (at least for English....) so that people can better understand eachother, it makes communication more precise. I see what you're saying but if English were to get rid of those gender distinction words, things could become more complicated and frustrating when trying to talk/write and English would probably have to evolve something to compensate for that loss. If you want to complain about a language where gender matters waaayyy more than in English, go after the Romance languages or some Semitic languages. razz I don't think that it's the actual word that you have the problem with, but the conotations that it's carried for centuries and what it builds on and what it reminds us of. But if everyone does become effectively unisex in identity and all that othe great stuff, then that distinction might not be needed anymore. Is that what you're getting at? *I'm tired too...it's 3 in the morning here.*
I have a problem with words differentiating because by constantly differentiating between gender when we speak we're placing more importance on gender than their should be.
Also, I don't think it would pose too much of a problem for writing/speaking since people talk about two or more members of the same gender all the time with no issue. |
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Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:36 pm
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Oh no, I'm conservative on this issue! I must speak my piece and then everyone will be in disagreement with me.
Well, first of all I wonder about unisex bathrooms. If all bathrooms were unisexed would urinals have stalls built around them? Because I would feel uncomfortable seeing guys and their parts. And those poor guys that get uncomfortable going in front of other guys would probably feel that girls were assessing the size their p***s on their way to the stall. I'm sure it's something that people could get used to after a while but it would be pretty awkward.
Seriously though, why degender people? I'm a woman and I don't feel I am inferior in any way to men, nor do I feel discriminated against. I think that we understand that there is a definite difference between males and females. Women can have babies, men tend to have more muscle mass, women have better vocabularies and think faster, men uh... can focus more, I guess. Of course this is not always true from individual to individual, but we should recognize that there is certainly a difference.
I think the same thing could be said about race, or sexual orientation. We should be able to recognize that a person is a certain ethnicity, or orientation and accept them as the individual they are. If you have a friend who is gay you do not pretend that they aren't, or that he or she is not different. You recognize them as being gay, and accept them as they are. I have a lesbian sister, and used to have a lesbian roommate. My best friend is black, and I recognize that these differences affect who they are. My age, race, orientation, religion, sex and so on affect me, how people treat me and my view on the world. However what defines me the most is my own personality and what I have achieved in my life. We should be able to recognize and accept our difference, but it should be the person, their personality, their character, their achievements that define them.
Please call me a she, and once you know who I am call me by my name.
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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:23 am
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Athena_Ritashe Oh no, I'm conservative on this issue! I must speak my piece and then everyone will be in disagreement with me. Well, first of all I wonder about unisex bathrooms. If all bathrooms were unisexed would urinals have stalls built around them? Because I would feel uncomfortable seeing guys and their parts. And those poor guys that get uncomfortable going in front of other guys would probably feel that girls were assessing the size their p***s on their way to the stall. I'm sure it's something that people could get used to after a while but it would be pretty awkward. Seriously though, why degender people? I'm a woman and I don't feel I am inferior in any way to men, nor do I feel discriminated against. I think that we understand that there is a definite difference between males and females. Women can have babies, men tend to have more muscle mass, women have better vocabularies and think faster, men uh... can focus more, I guess. Of course this is not always true from individual to individual, but we should recognize that there is certainly a difference. I think the same thing could be said about race, or sexual orientation. We should be able to recognize that a person is a certain ethnicity, or orientation and accept them as the individual they are. If you have a friend who is gay you do not pretend that they aren't, or that he or she is not different. You recognize them as being gay, and accept them as they are. I have a lesbian sister, and used to have a lesbian roommate. My best friend is black, and I recognize that these differences affect who they are. My age, race, orientation, religion, sex and so on affect me, how people treat me and my view on the world. However what defines me the most is my own personality and what I have achieved in my life. We should be able to recognize and accept our difference, but it should be the person, their personality, their character, their achievements that define them. Please call me a she, and once you know who I am call me by my name.
Okay, well yes I do disagree with you. First of all, I've never heard that females think faster than males on average, nor can I find any evidence for that via Google, so I think you're mistaken/were given false information. However, the male brain can do more than just "focus better" on average, as can the female brain do more than what you stated. Sorry, but the way you worded that was rather annoying especially since you added the "uh..." and "I guess" I strongly suggest you better educate yourself on the differences between male and female minds since your understanding of it seems to be a little biased...
I am well are there are differences between men and women and I'm not saying everyone should ignore them. What I am advocating is for people to not put so much importance on them since there's (what I think to be) a reasonable possibility we'll be able to overcome them.
I am not saying we should de-gender people. Just like how Bill Maher suggested in Religulous that the belief the world is coming to an end makes people care less what happens to it, I am suggesting the knowledge that gender differences could come to an end makes people care less about them.
As for the bathroom issue, I believe if we all grew up that way then it wouldn't be much of an issue. There are unisex bathrooms with multiple stalls, not common, but they exist and they work just fine. Also there are many homosexuals and bisexuals and it doesn't seem to be a hot button topic for them. Also, its not uncommon for urinals to have dividers between them which makes it difficult to view someone's p***s unless you're being obvious about it. I think you're forgetting how much of the things we think/do/feel are learned. There are tribes/nudists all over the world where people just let it all hang out with no shame.
Note: You cannot assess the size of someone's p***s when they're peeing since the size increase from flaccid to erect largely varies from person to person. In fact, larger flaccid penises often won't increase in size hardly at all when erect since there are two common types of penises; ones that are small when flaccid and largely increase in size when erect, and those that are large when flaccid but hardly increase at all when erect. Although true, that's not going to stop people from worrying about it or people from possibly doing it. |
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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:47 am
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Secular Swarm Okay, well yes I do disagree with you. First of all, I've never heard that females think faster than males on average, nor can I find any evidence for that via Google, so I think you're mistaken/were given false information. However, the male brain can do more than just "focus better" on average, as can the female brain do more than what you stated. Sorry, but the way you worded that was rather annoying especially since you added the "uh..." and "I guess" I strongly suggest you better educate yourself on the differences between male and female minds since your understanding of it seems to be a little biased...
Actually according to studies I am correct on this one, perhaps my phrasing of it was wrong however. Basically women are better at assessing and integrating information while men can process more logical information (or as the article said: "men tend to excel in tasks requiring more local processing (like mathematics)") This is because while both sexes have the same intelligence women have greater connectivity between the right/left hemispheres of the brain.
Sources:
White matter vs. Gray matter brain study
Human Hardware: Men and women
Secular Swarm am not saying we should de-gender people. Just like how Bill Maher suggested in Religulous that the belief the world is coming to an end makes people care less what happens to it, I am suggesting the knowledge that gender differences could come to an end makes people care less about them.
I agree with you in principal that emphasizing gender differences have no place in the modern world, however I think this whole subject is a non-issue. While people do recognize the difference between male and female and some make judgement calls based on it the trend in post industrial nations is equalizing the sexes. With contraceptives, equal access to employment and education, and the ability to vote, etc power is becoming more evenly distributed between both sexes. Yes, there is still prejudice and inequality out there, but we are naturally trending towards gender being a non issue.
I don't think we need to push this issue, what is important is to make sure that we keep the ball rolling. We need to advocate for women's rights, and the rights of the LGBT, the right for women to choose, and to keep the religious conservatives who feel that a women's place is to be at home having children at the fringe instead of playing a decisive role in these issues.
What is far more important is what is going on in women's rights in third world countries. In Pakistan, and Afghanistan schools for girls are routinely torn down. In China and India female fetuses are aborted because of the burden their inferior status places on their family. Around the world women have little or no freedom to determine their own fate, and are under the possession of their husbands or fathers. Women's rights in third world countries are one of the most vital issues in the world. Overpopulation is perhaps the greatest threat to our planet, and when women have no control over how many children they will have this problem only increases.
So if we are to be concerned about gender issues the most concern should be women in third world countries, they are the ones that are experiencing the worst of this evil.
Secular Swarm for the bathroom issue, I believe if we all grew up that way then it wouldn't be much of an issue. There are unisex bathrooms with multiple stalls, not common, but they exist and they work just fine. Also there are many homosexuals and bisexuals and it doesn't seem to be a hot button topic for them. Also, its not uncommon for urinals to have dividers between them which makes it difficult to view someone's p***s unless you're being obvious about it. I think you're forgetting how much of the things we think/do/feel are learned. There are tribes/nudists all over the world where people just let it all hang out with no shame. Note: You cannot assess the size of someone's p***s when they're peeing since the size increase from flaccid to erect largely varies from person to person. In fact, larger flaccid penises often won't increase in size hardly at all when erect since there are two common types of penises; ones that are small when flaccid and largely increase in size when erect, and those that are large when flaccid but hardly increase at all when erect. Although true, that's not going to stop people from worrying about it or people from possibly doing it.
I don't think I would have much of an issue if every bathroom was suddenly made to be a unisex bathroom. It would just feel a bit awkward to me and a lot of other people at first. |
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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:15 am
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First and foremost, since language is a big issue for me, I must approach this idea of changing language. I've heard many such ideas for many reasons. For political correctness, for better representation of pronunciation, for whatever reason, especially if it isn't really language related - I find a big problem in this general idea.
Something about trying to change the way people see things through language doesn't seem too right to me. It's a very powerful tool, but it opens the door to many difficulties, in all aspects of life, because language is at the base of every human action.
It will be much easier in English, but in many other languages, maybe even in most languages, the entire structure of verbs and nouns would have to be changed completely - in English, gender is hardly represented. I don't know if you know this, but in many languages, very common, spread-out languages like French, German or Arabic, even objects have "gender". In many languages the actual verb is isn't the same for each gender. It's not going to be that easy. You're almost making up new languages here. Just imagine what that's going to take.
Leaving the difficulty of pulling this through behind, I don't believe this should be the solution. People should believe in an idea because they have a strong way to back it up. Changing the language is like trying to trick their mind or something, convincing them there in fact are no differences between men and women. There are obviously some difference. What we would want to have, is people knowing that and allowing both genders equal rights, along with equal duties.
In my opinion, I'm not sure if we know exactly which behavioral differences really are caused by society's expectations of gender roles, and which by physical tendencies. I'm not sure what the truth is in this case. I've never seen a study that could ever convince me either way, so I'm not really sure what to say here. I'd be thrilled to see anything scientifically proven and backed-up on this.
I've tried to keep this post free of embarrassing phrasing errors but I get the feeling I didn't make it really, if it came out confusing I'd be happy to explain again, sorry. ^^
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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:58 pm
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Athena_Ritashe Secular Swarm Okay, well yes I do disagree with you. First of all, I've never heard that females think faster than males on average, nor can I find any evidence for that via Google, so I think you're mistaken/were given false information. However, the male brain can do more than just "focus better" on average, as can the female brain do more than what you stated. Sorry, but the way you worded that was rather annoying especially since you added the "uh..." and "I guess" I strongly suggest you better educate yourself on the differences between male and female minds since your understanding of it seems to be a little biased... Actually according to studies I am correct on this one, perhaps my phrasing of it was wrong however. Basically women are better at assessing and integrating information while men can process more logical information (or as the article said: "men tend to excel in tasks requiring more local processing (like mathematics)") This is because while both sexes have the same intelligence women have greater connectivity between the right/left hemispheres of the brain. Sources: White matter vs. Gray matter brain study Human Hardware: Men and women Secular Swarm am not saying we should de-gender people. Just like how Bill Maher suggested in Religulous that the belief the world is coming to an end makes people care less what happens to it, I am suggesting the knowledge that gender differences could come to an end makes people care less about them. I agree with you in principal that emphasizing gender differences have no place in the modern world, however I think this whole subject is a non-issue. While people do recognize the difference between male and female and some make judgement calls based on it the trend in post industrial nations is equalizing the sexes. With contraceptives, equal access to employment and education, and the ability to vote, etc power is becoming more evenly distributed between both sexes. Yes, there is still prejudice and inequality out there, but we are naturally trending towards gender being a non issue. I don't think we need to push this issue, what is important is to make sure that we keep the ball rolling. We need to advocate for women's rights, and the rights of the LGBT, the right for women to choose, and to keep the religious conservatives who feel that a women's place is to be at home having children at the fringe instead of playing a decisive role in these issues. What is far more important is what is going on in women's rights in third world countries. In Pakistan, and Afghanistan schools for girls are routinely torn down. In China and India female fetuses are aborted because of the burden their inferior status places on their family. Around the world women have little or no freedom to determine their own fate, and are under the possession of their husbands or fathers. Women's rights in third world countries are one of the most vital issues in the world. Overpopulation is perhaps the greatest threat to our planet, and when women have no control over how many children they will have this problem only increases. So if we are to be concerned about gender issues the most concern should be women in third world countries, they are the ones that are experiencing the worst of this evil. Secular Swarm for the bathroom issue, I believe if we all grew up that way then it wouldn't be much of an issue. There are unisex bathrooms with multiple stalls, not common, but they exist and they work just fine. Also there are many homosexuals and bisexuals and it doesn't seem to be a hot button topic for them. Also, its not uncommon for urinals to have dividers between them which makes it difficult to view someone's p***s unless you're being obvious about it. I think you're forgetting how much of the things we think/do/feel are learned. There are tribes/nudists all over the world where people just let it all hang out with no shame. Note: You cannot assess the size of someone's p***s when they're peeing since the size increase from flaccid to erect largely varies from person to person. In fact, larger flaccid penises often won't increase in size hardly at all when erect since there are two common types of penises; ones that are small when flaccid and largely increase in size when erect, and those that are large when flaccid but hardly increase at all when erect. Although true, that's not going to stop people from worrying about it or people from possibly doing it. I don't think I would have much of an issue if every bathroom was suddenly made to be a unisex bathroom. It would just feel a bit awkward to me and a lot of other people at first.
Yes, I completely agree with you and I've already read the article on white/grey matter you linked. However your wording there was poor, since better connectivity between both hemispheres of the brain in no way means someone thinks quicker, it simply changes the way they think about it. |
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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:28 pm
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Im A Little Pea First and foremost, since language is a big issue for me, I must approach this idea of changing language. I've heard many such ideas for many reasons. For political correctness, for better representation of pronunciation, for whatever reason, especially if it isn't really language related - I find a big problem in this general idea. Something about trying to change the way people see things through language doesn't seem too right to me. It's a very powerful tool, but it opens the door to many difficulties, in all aspects of life, because language is at the base of every human action. It will be much easier in English, but in many other languages, maybe even in most languages, the entire structure of verbs and nouns would have to be changed completely - in English, gender is hardly represented. I don't know if you know this, but in many languages, very common, spread-out languages like French, German or Arabic, even objects have "gender". In many languages the actual verb is isn't the same for each gender. It's not going to be that easy. You're almost making up new languages here. Just imagine what that's going to take. Leaving the difficulty of pulling this through behind, I don't believe this should be the solution. People should believe in an idea because they have a strong way to back it up. Changing the language is like trying to trick their mind or something, convincing them there in fact are no differences between men and women. There are obviously some difference. What we would want to have, is people knowing that and allowing both genders equal rights, along with equal duties. In my opinion, I'm not sure if we know exactly which behavioral differences really are caused by society's expectations of gender roles, and which by physical tendencies. I'm not sure what the truth is in this case. I've never seen a study that could ever convince me either way, so I'm not really sure what to say here. I'd be thrilled to see anything scientifically proven and backed-up on this. I've tried to keep this post free of embarrassing phrasing errors but I get the feeling I didn't make it really, if it came out confusing I'd be happy to explain again, sorry. ^^
Little Pea, thank you very much for this post, this is exactly the kind of contribution I wanted to this thread.
I do not think differences that are the result of gender should be ignored, and I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear. Obviously that would cause huge issues for things like medicine, sports, etc. What I am trying to say is that we should get rid of all unnecessary differentiating between gender. I wrote this post late at night when I was really tired since I wanted to just write it and open discussion, unfortunately that resulted in some poor wording and improper explanations of things.
However, its generally an accepted fact that a lot of the roles we have in society are the result of nurture, not nature. The subject does seem to be under researched. It is probably difficult to research since I'd in order to get the best understanding of how large a role nurture plays you'd have to take out all the variables... which would likely mean isolating children.... which no government in their right mind would allow.
As for the language, I think that the genetics/transhumanism bit I was talking about will probably happen before our language ever changes. At that point all the differentiating between gender will become less necessary and language might change on its own. I still think it should be changed though.
Thanks again for your post. |
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:35 am
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Secular Swarm Little Pea, thank you very much for this post, this is exactly the kind of contribution I wanted to this thread. I do not think differences that are the result of gender should be ignored, and I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear. Obviously that would cause huge issues for things like medicine, sports, etc. What I am trying to say is that we should get rid of all unnecessary differentiating between gender. I wrote this post late at night when I was really tired since I wanted to just write it and open discussion, unfortunately that resulted in some poor wording and improper explanations of things. However, its generally an accepted fact that a lot of the roles we have in society are the result of nurture, not nature. The subject does seem to be under researched. It is probably difficult to research since I'd in order to get the best understanding of how large a role nurture plays you'd have to take out all the variables... which would likely mean isolating children.... which no government in their right mind would allow. As for the language, I think that the genetics/transhumanism bit I was talking about will probably happen before our language ever changes. At that point all the differentiating between gender will become less necessary and language might change on its own. I still think it should be changed though. Thanks again for your post.
Generally, I think everyone should get equal opportunities. For example, there are some jobs where men are, generally much better at than women, mostly those that require physical strength. However, there are some women who are able to perform them. They should be given that chance.
This is just an example, but I suppose you get the idea.
This is already happening in most places. Today you can find women in professions that were before considered "masculine" or "men only", and vice versa. In most cases, there aren't many jobs that don't allow workers of some gender.
The issue is, many people follow those "gender roles", also career-wise, not because they can not do anything else, but simply just... because. I'll take my brothers and I as an example - we grew up at the same home, with the same parents, but for some reason, one of them is studying computer programming, the other is in engineering, while I'm taking linguistics. I can't help but wonder if this was the case if I were a guy. It's not like I can't do what they are doing, right? That's just what I like. But that's what people get from their surroundings.
Most odds are, that when you were growing up, your kindergarten teacher was a woman, and your family doctor was a man. This might not be the case of course, I happen to know a male kindergarten teacher, and a big bunch of female doctors, but that's mostly how it goes. You can't argue with people's wants, right?
So, anyhow - it's very complicated. |
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Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:25 am
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