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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:28 pm
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:36 pm
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Quote: Do You Think That Obama is Legally President?
5:13 p.m. EST, Nov 17 '08 President Full results ยป 365 53% 66,882,230 173 46% 58,343,671
In a word, yes.
Quote: I don't think that Obama was Born in Hawaii
Do you have proof, not skepticism about the veracity of his Hawaiian birth, but actual proof that he was born in another country? If you do not, Hawaii is very much claiming that he was born there.
It doesn't matter anyways. Obama's mother is a US citizen (Ann Dunham was born in Kansas), and the law stipulates that if you are born to a US citizen who maintains their US citizenship, you are a citizen of the US. McCain, for example, was born in the Panama Canal Zone, and George Romney, who once pondered a presidential bid, was born in Mexico. Neither of their candidacies were seriously contested on the citizenship grounds even though both were born outside US soil. So, legally, even if you had proof-positive that Obama was born outside the US, he's still legally a citizen by birthright and still legally can occupy the presidency.
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Rainbowfied Mouse Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:36 pm
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:47 pm
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Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:58 am
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Quote: What's the point of that law anyways
It comes from the Constitution, the following passage:
Quote: No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President
There's actually scant record of why this phrase was included in the Constitution. The only existing hints that seem to suggest why come from a letter from John Jay to George Washington, the gist of which was that they wanted to discourage people with foreign loyalties from holding high office, and placed the greatest requirement on the man who would be vested with the powers of commander in chief of the entire US military. Other than that, most of the records with regard to the wording of that provision were submitted without comment. It may indicate far older roots to the thinking in attitudes that have since changed. All the way back to ancient Rome and Athens, government offices always had a very strong birthright citizenship requirement. Knowledge of the governance of republics, both ancient and contemporary, were not lost in the slightest, and were indeed discussed by such writers as Machiavelli during the Renaissance. Furthermore, there's also a strong possibility that the attitude that citizens and other certain in-groups should be the primary contenders for public office is something intrinsic, and didn't pass with Rome's fall. So, it may be that the idea was so basically and fundamentally agreed upon that it was just taken for granted and not really discussed very much.
In any respect it's probably a bit outdated. Obviously some sort of standard of longevity and assimilation into our culture is needed to ensure that our president would act in our best interest and not that of a foreign interest. However, I highly doubt that a president Schwarzenegger would declare America a protectorate of Austria, nor would a president Granholm turn us into a subsidiary of Canada. So, the law could do with some much less restrictive standards and open the door to some of our naturalized citizens, particularly those who have been here for a long time.
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Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:21 am
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Rainbowfied Mouse Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:19 pm
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Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:27 pm
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Rainbowfied Mouse Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:04 pm
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Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:54 pm
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Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:28 pm
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Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:10 pm
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Rainbowfied Mouse Vice Captain
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:33 am
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:16 pm
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Rainbowfied Mouse Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:10 pm
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Lord Bitememan Quote: What's the point of that law anyways It comes from the Constitution, the following passage: Quote: No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President There's actually scant record of why this phrase was included in the Constitution. The only existing hints that seem to suggest why come from a letter from John Jay to George Washington, the gist of which was that they wanted to discourage people with foreign loyalties from holding high office, and placed the greatest requirement on the man who would be vested with the powers of commander in chief of the entire US military. Other than that, most of the records with regard to the wording of that provision were submitted without comment. It may indicate far older roots to the thinking in attitudes that have since changed. All the way back to ancient Rome and Athens, government offices always had a very strong birthright citizenship requirement. Knowledge of the governance of republics, both ancient and contemporary, were not lost in the slightest, and were indeed discussed by such writers as Machiavelli during the Renaissance. Furthermore, there's also a strong possibility that the attitude that citizens and other certain in-groups should be the primary contenders for public office is something intrinsic, and didn't pass with Rome's fall. So, it may be that the idea was so basically and fundamentally agreed upon that it was just taken for granted and not really discussed very much. In any respect it's probably a bit outdated. Obviously some sort of standard of longevity and assimilation into our culture is needed to ensure that our president would act in our best interest and not that of a foreign interest. However, I highly doubt that a president Schwarzenegger would declare America a protectorate of Austria, nor would a president Granholm turn us into a subsidiary of Canada. So, the law could do with some much less restrictive standards and open the door to some of our naturalized citizens, particularly those who have been here for a long time.
being a constitutionalist, I think it should remain as is. The Presidential office is the highest office, so only someone who is national born should be allowed to hold that office. Its not like we're keeping people who are foreign-born from holding powerful positions. Someone whose from S. America, Africa, Europe... etc. would be better off bring their experiences to the House of Rep. and the Senate. The President only has the power to execute and assign people to the Supreme Court and Cabinet. Though, as much as I would love to find a reason to kick Obama out of office before his first term expires, it would just be better to make his a lame duck by voting in fiscal conservatives, be them dem. or repub., and then vote Obama out 2012.
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