Ethics in Practice

[Ishtar Shakti]

I was in another guild and I read a thread concerning ethical practice.
I have thought about ethics alot throughout my time but they had an opinion which gave me a bit of a knee jerk reaction

How does the affect of you drawing energy for a spell affect the ecosystem of the place that you are drawing from...

Now some of the things I have made have been called... "crimes against nature" I have a policy of containing almost every spell I create that is in anyway developed because things wig out when they see them. They may try to copy them and do a s**t poor job and ******** up the world more by messing up something very complex. Or they might wig out that I made something that looked like That.

I would rather teach a potential theif how to make the spell properly then watch them butcher it. I try to make things copy proof so that this can't happen.

It recently occured to me that almost Everything I have ever done was going to upset someone Somewhere. People see the spells I create and they don't understand them and Freak Out. I get very irritated sometimes because none of the spells are geared to create harm. Not a single one of them. Almost all are meant to help people. I have to laboriously explain to people why the spell isn't a bad thing. I find this profuse lack of understanding and even worse a Desire to even try to understand. A lack of commitment to fully understand.

I realized that most of what I do is more to not piss other people off and draw attention then me really thinking about the persons affected... I never Once considered how me altering the flows of energy might disrupt the lives of the persons using the energy. My concern was more towards not drawing attention and leaving a small imprint then actual consideration of other peoples lives because in my mind... I just assume persons will be able to find other sources of energy. Its bountiful plentiful and easy to aquire because its easy for me to aquire.

The things I do are easy for Me to understand. They are easy for Me to do. They seem simple. I know this is a very egocentric view point and I am generally not trying to be soo egocentric but...

Do you think there is a point where you shouldn't constantly be aware and pandering to other people?
Its like people suing Mc Donalds because the food makes them fat.

Or Religious persons suing the school systems because they teach evolution yet they don't provide all views on the subject

Or people suing the damn because it lessened the amount of water flowing to half a valey while flooding the other half.

Just all these issues... people seem to have soo many contradictory view points and they can't all be right.

It gets Tiresome after a while. Its like being yelled at for speaking or breathing or eating. I realized I developed all these defense mechanisms more to appease people then for actually believing that what I was doing was wrong. Its not like I Want to harm people. I try to do my best not to harm people... but it seems more like the line of ethics is wherever you choose to put it.

You weigh the consequences... I almost feel like the ever hated medical industry. Who should you give coverage to? Most of what I do is actually aimed at helping people but it has a cost. Other people are always going to argue the cost.

Evolution makes sense... the dam helps the people in the town... and Mc Donalds really is a huge boon in stopping starvation. Cheap easy and chocked full of preservatives so if you don't have a fridge... or a home to put it in... the other half is still good in the morning.

I feel almost sympathetic to big business... I Don't... but I can understand there arguments.

Even stopping one person from harming another interferes with the will of the person trying to do harm.

Also if, people aren't willing to step up and do the work themselves, to do it in such a way that I Don't Need to, then where is there right to speak.

The people who are harmed by me allocating energy into a shield for someone... did they do anything to stop the person from being attacked. Did they suggest a different way for me getting the energy?

The person who had an issue with my spell... did they even take the time to understand it before flipping out?

It requires work that people aren't willing to do themselves. People want their lives to be simple. To live in a box which they can easily cope with and this... closed existence. Anything new or different is attacked is feared. Is it wrong to ask people to adapt to changes in there environment? Life is constantly changing! If you try to keep out all signs of it... it just seems like people might become twisted warped and deluded.

I don't know if what I've done would be considered right. Is it enough to not mean harm even if you cause it? Is it enough to try not to cause harm -- even though you don't think what you did was wrong that maybe secretly in my heart of hearts I think that I'm probably just doing all this because it would be too difficult to deal with the ramifications of jostling a couple box's.

I don't touch people when I walk down hallways or streets. I don't even physically make contact with people just so that I don't have to Deal with the ramifications. This seems like an excessive and cloistering fear that I would rather not have which has been reinforced by so many people throughout all of my life that it seems almost second nature at this point.  

[Ishtar Shakti]

Summary...

I can't seem to make Everyone happy
Why am I so concerned with keeping people happy?
It doesn't seem out of actual concern for there well being
Secretly I don't think what I do is wrong but I still feel guilty

This wears me down and makes me feel less concerned but still I keep going through all the extensive lengths to make sure what I do isn't wrong.

I feel as if people should be held accountable for there own well being because I feel as if I take care of myself and I help others as much as I can and I really think more people should do the same. I feel less and less sympathy for people who choose to remain ignorant or choose to remain inactive instead of taking charge of there own life.
Any sort of action seems like its bringing some level of chaos/change into a system

And my summary for my summary
Ethics is a b***h in heat

Discussion: What are your ethics?
How do you get around these issue's?

Thoughts, feelings, etc.  

[Magus Initi]

We need to actually know what you do in order to give our opinions. You made many references to what you do, but you never actually said what that is. From what you did say, I'm under the impression that, when you do a spell, you draw energy from other people, though they might not actually be involved with the spell besides that?

And what sort of spells are these that people are so freaked out by when they see them?

And you say that there are negative things that happen when you do your spells, but what are those negative things? Just the fact that people get upset when they realize that you've done one? I wouldn't call that causing harm, you can't anticipate how a person will react, and unless they're directly involved with a spell, it's really none of their business.

Though, I just want to say, (and I don't know if you've ever done this, I'm just saying) I do think it's wrong to perform a spell on or for someone without their knowledge. Unless it's like some dire situation and something terrible would happen to that person and you have no other options.  

[Ishtar Shakti]

I was going to reference the practice... but A it would have taken even longer to do so and so I edited it out. I was hoping for more a discussion on general ethics.

The negative things would be as follows

If I rerouted the energy into my spell from the surrounding area. Someone may be using that energy for there own purposes. If I reroute enough energy it forms a deficit of ambient energy in the surrounding area. That was the example I gave already I think? If I make a battery or power a spell spirits are drawn like flies. What the person said in nature to it being wrong was that conversely bringing energy into a system may mess up the balance. It is much like walking a tight rope to either side of you is a pitfall. Even if I completely contain all traces of the spell so that it doesn't affect the surrounding area if something reads the spell I'm back to square one with having some sort of issue.

In protecting my personal space and making it so that other peoples wills aren't effective there I drew alot of attention as things tried like crazy to figure out whats in that space. I just wanted a place where I couldn't be bothered. I have to mask it and create illusions and seeming's to placate other being. This happens anytime I make a good shield as well. Things try like hell to break it unless I do these complicated energy masking techniques.

As to the unnatural creations, if I have a spell and I make it polarized (I use both negative and positive elements) its been called unnatural. I do this alot with batteries. I create a dichotomy between drawing of energy and the structured part where it stores the energy. I create a sort of... polarized funnel that traps the energy. It creates a sort of self sustained drawing so that I don't have to use my will at all to sustain it and it creates its own currents.

When I do... almost anything and I mean anything I could think of doing and I do it well and don't do a half-assed approach it just doesn't end well.
I've gotten various reactions. Even me doing nothing and someone just reading me has freaked someone out. Its a horrible feeling that creates... I tend to mask my energy constantly.
I stopped practicing as well... it just has always caused problems no matter what I intend to do. It ******** up other peoples mojo but isn't that the nature of using your will... to change things?

I don't do spells on people without there awareness even in the case that me not doing a spell would be worse. It generally doesn't work as well and people don't really change unless they want to.

In anycase I feel like I have to constantly hold back and watch my steps 24 - 7. I have to watch my thoughts and I have to make sure I don't touch anything and I have to make sure I don't leave an imprint on objects.  

[Garret_Strife]

Your plight reminds me of the "9 of Swords".

(Keep in mind I'm just making a personal assessment, as well expressing personal opinions, and mean no offense of any nature.)

Would I be wrong in suggesting (at least lately with your discoveries and contemplations) that you may not be as confident, or sure of yourself as you may normally be?

It appears to me, that you may have trouble accepting yourself, possibly because of the opinions of others; or from reactions in your energy work. Coupled with that, you're expanding your realms of realization, but may be getting caught up in things which stir emotions which do not placate your mind or heart.

What I would recommend is taking some time to better understand your integration into the world. Observe the effects of your actions, (spiritually, socially, physically, and so on) and take note of the reactions.

You may find that, you, as well as everyone else, have an infinite pool of possibility regarding the decisions, options, actions, and their opposites.

Remember also that all negativity contains some form of positivity, and vice versa. If not immediately seen, or accepted, be assured that there will be some sign in time of positivity after darker periods (for lack of a more appropriate expression).

We all may walk different paths, and "may" end up at different destinations at different times, in different ways, but we all must walk a path. So I would recommend taking the time to better understand how you move with the current around you, or if you do at all.

Do not get too caught up in the "possible" adverse reactions of your choices, but do those things which feel most appropriate, or "right" within you. Keep in mind the affect it may bring, and if it is truly something which feels positive within (within, without as well), then make your choice.

The fact you're contemplating these details, and ethics themselves, shows some concern for compassion, which is an admirable thing truly.



Also, if you're not very familiar with Tarot, know that when influenced, the "9 of swords" leads to a greater understanding of things. 3nodding

Hopefully I was able to help in some manner, and if not I apologize, and wish you the best of luck in your pursuits.  

[Ishtar Shakti]

No I'm not as confident.
Yes I have issues accepting myself and I have put myself into some severe questioning. I'm not really expanding my realms of realization though I am looking back over a few I may have neglected recently.

I've been taking note of the affects I have but at the same time i feel tired of it. I've been taking notes all along and that line between right and wrong and hate and love seems a bit too easy to cross. I don't want to close myself off from the world... but that sinking feeling makes me want to. It would be easier... its tempting

I fear I would be happier not caring about negativity or possitivity. It doesn't feel admirable... it feels like a heavy burden. I feel almost panicked like a chain reactions of explosions are just going to go off anytime I feel any iota of happiness, anytime I speak, anytime I breath. To do so though would be rejecting part of myself in favor of another part. This would create a divide in me... so I'm trying to breach it somehow. Find some narrow middle ledge that I can stand on... where maybe I can feel safe and still care.

Like caring from a distance about people who have no clue you exist. It seems safer then actually dealing with them and its still rewarding. Thats why I usually help strangers or people who know nothing about me. Its safe. Its like the internet... there is safety in anonymity. There is just enough detachment that I can function normally.

I think it also leads me to get into relationships both friendship and otherwise with people who are emotionally unattainable. Who have serious emotional issues. I feel this need to "help them" deal with there problems while also in a way never being quite capable of being close to them. Hmm I need to write that down somewhere. That might be an idea worth following.

In anycase... I'm ruminating.  

[Magus Initi]

Hm, well, first of all, I don't think that it's your responsibility to keep other people from feeling uncomfortable about what you do. If they see a spell you're doing and think that it's wrong or unnatural, and they generate negative feelings because of that, that is their own problem because it has a lot more to do with their ability to cope with the world around them, than whatever it is that they see you doing.

Secondly, I don't think that it is wrong to pull energy from the area around you, because I believe energy works like wind. I've never seen anything negatively effected by magic, and that is because I believe that when energy is pulled from an area, there is always more energy to replace it. In fact, because of the good feelings that are generally felt in an area where magic is performed, I have come to believe that the shift in energy is nice and revitalizing, like a gust of wind.

Third of all, I think that your work with polarity sounds very interesting, and I would love to see a diagram on how your funnel works. And don't worry, I wouldn't try to do it, since I know nothing about it. Just thought I'd say that since you said earlier that you don't like the idea of people trying to do the same things you do and messing it up.  

[Ishtar Shakti]

o|/ <---
l |_<--- its Kind of like this
First I create an indent or well I create something like a dip to funnel the energy. I create this thing which registers as a small void. It draws energy into it and is like a constant negative space at the other side of the funnel. The void though never fills, its much like a marble in shape and energy flows around it yet never touches it. It creates a sort of inertia and the energy goes past into a chamber which stores energy and keeps it pretty compacted. I created a semi permeable one way barrier to keep the flow of ambient energy in.
I have several different versions.
One is just a negative space that is bigger then the space it takes up. Its kind of like a door to a place that has less energy. Its like bending space to make a pocket and then just not letting anything that enters the pocket energetically leave.

The void marble thing works though anywhere. It only has a certain level of pull or inertia which it can influence though. It leaks in energy slowly. It relies mostly by creating a contained negative space. The containment's used are pretty much one way barriers which controls the flow of energy.

With both of these I create a tube that leads from the bottom of the well to my or to whatever may need a pool of ambient energy.

I also usually make a sieve to break the associations that the energy has before I use it. This can be done a number of ways as well.
I have a specific way of creating each component part depending on what I need it for. Also various safe guards etc.

|=|o< <--

This may be a better diagram. I mean its pretty simple. The hard part is creating a negative space. Thats why the other is easier and I make it more often. If you just bend space or super impose one space on another the ambient energy just flows into that space. Kind of like a energy gradient. I realized that its much like how cells collect energy to do work. I just started taking a class on biochemistry of metabolism. It seems nature has come up with these things before me.  

[Magus Initi]

Interesting, so now my question is, what is the purpose of making these things? (What do you call them?) If energy can't come back out, I can't imagine that you would be using it as a source of excess energy. Actually, one thing comes to mind is that if a nasty thing comprised of energy were bothering you, you could capture it, but I think that could be dangerous.

So, why do you make them?  

[Ishtar Shakti]

Energy does come back out but it can only leave through the tube or "hose" which is attached to the back of the chamber and has different filters etc. to regulate the energy that leaves the chamber.

The energy builds in the chamber and then the tube feeds energy into whatever needs it.
It only can't come back out the front
Its used as a power source... though I can also close the container completely and just use it to trap the energy till I find a use for it. It only has a certain amount of energy that it can hold before the container breaks so I have various safety systems to prevent this.

I mostly use it kind of like a vacuum to clean the energy in my house. Because I'm sensitive to other peoples emotions its a good way to make a nice space where there isn't any. Its not usually a very strong current. Its just enough to "clean the air"
I'm still not sure why I've had people freak out when they looked at it... its just like an air purifier that also compresses clean air.  

[Anandamide]

Seems as if you are extremely sensitive... And being so sensitive it's only natural that you will feel the cause and effect of everything you do.

I respect your conscience and the caution you use when you manipulate energy.  

[Underworld Priestess]

The energy around the earth is there for a reason and we are all connected into it. It is meant to be used but it should only be used properly not to toy with things or to cause pain to someone. One way to think of it is just because you pick an apple from a tree in one part of the world and eat it doesn't mean you are going to save a starving child on the other side of the world by not eating it. I hope I am portraying the metaphor correctly there.  

[Chieftain Twilight]

this here seems to me like it can be explained by taking a good look at ethics and philosophy, and where they meet. it is a matter of practicality as well as of principle.

let's take a look at Alchemy for example. the simple scientific processes of understanding the properties of all things, material and spiritual, breaking them down to various degrees of deconstruction (the lowest being where we see all things are made up of the same basic materials, and further down we see that there is only energy, existance), and finaly rebuilding it into something new. this was the precursor to science, particularly the fields of Chemistry and Physics, as well as a bridge between Science and Religion.

it too, was hated, despised, and call a crime against nature. but it WAS nature! it IS nature! it is understanding, and working with, nature.

all things effect all other things, by acting, reacting, and even just by thinking, or even just by being. it is too often that people forget that they too are part of nature, and that they do not disrupt the balance any more than any other thing in nature by doing things which are natural.

magic is natural. alchemy is natural. killing is natural. protecting is natural. eating is natural. mating is natural. changing things is natural.

it is by trying to regulate, by trying to make your own laws greater or more important than the natural laws, that we become "unnatural". ironically, ethics are the very thing that they claim is unethical.

i need no justification to seduce middle-school girls, for example. i can, if i want. i can say it is the same as a wolf stalking lambs, or i can say it is the same as a lion hunting gazelle, or i can say it is the same as a human shooting a dear. because it is. do they justify those actions? no. they do it because that is how they get food. and the body needs food, just like it needs sex, warmth and rest. it is to satisfy instinctual drives which keep th being alive and further the survival of the species.

how's THAT for ethics.  

[Oborosen]

Dear child, I understand your pain about the ethics of spell work. There is nothing more disheartening then having something of your creation. Cause pain or at least discomfort to someone. Which is even worse if its a person that's close to you.

It happens to you, to me, and everyone that practices magic in one of its many forms.

That's life  

[Nymshi]

My ethics? I'm afraid I've stolen from the Wicca on this one.

"And do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."

Or something to that effect.

Point being that no matter what we do, the basic fact we exist is going to deprive someone else. The absolute most we can hope to do for anyone is to respect their free will and to not take more than we need. But even these are impossible ideals at times. The situation must always be take into consideration.

Still...I think perhaps the most important thing to consider when doing anything is--and this is borrowing more from the Christian ideal--could you stand up before whatever God or spirit you hold worthy to judge one's life and say that you have no regret for the thing you did? That in effect, given what you knew then, that you would do it again?

Because we're never going to live fault free lives. We're always going to fall short of our aspirations and ideals. No matter the intention, we will inevitably cause some measure of harm to those we meant to help. That despite our absolute best efforts, there will always be repercussions we simply could not see and did not plan for. And knowing this, we still thought it important enough to sacrifice our time and energy to try.

But honestly...it sounds like you're trying to put the weight of the world on your shoulders and you're just one person in that world. The weight is not yours alone to bear nor should you feel required to do so.

Just do what you can and let the rest take care of itself.