North Korea

[Enoine]

Alright guys, I wanted to post a topic here and I think North Korea will fit nicely. My question is, what should we do in relations to them? Personally, I am not educated on this topic enough to choose a stance so I will post later after listening to some views and reading a little bit on it. Thanks =)  

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

North Korea has been anti-American since the Korean war back in the 50s-60s... I hate how inhumane they treat their civilians, and how they would choose to build nuclear weapons over feeding themselves. They follow old communist ideals of being independent from other societies and not relying on trade, yet receive aid from foreign entities, which they store and only give to people subservient and patriotic to their society.

I don't think going to war would be much use, as they have China backing them up, among a few other communist regimes, however, I think that intensive talks should be done. I think if we had better ties with China that we could get something done, they rely heavily on China, if China and many other foreign entities quit helping them out, N. Korea would have it's own downfall, as it's economy is the most controlled, and one of the worst in the world.

In case you haven't heard they just changed their currency and limit the amount that can be exchanged from their own civilians, meaning everyone in their country may lose money.  

[goodshot911SNK]

yeah I guess that is a settle way of putting it but really we should just bomb them from up high and let south Korea do the rest then do the same with Iran and pakistan  

[Lord Bitememan]

You have to analyze the strategic situation for all players involved.

South Korea- Wants diplomatic rapprochement with the North and in principle embraces the concept of reunification. The only elements of society that embrace the US position of a more hawkish stance against the North are the very old who remember the days of the Korean war. The younger generation has always lived under the US security umbrella and trust the intentions of the North, at least in so much as they prefer heady idealism to a confrontation.

Japan- In principle supports the goals of non-proliferation as they are ferociously green in that nation, but are also far to pacifist to back it up with any real military action. They know that the US will bear the burden of any military heavy lifting. They are also mindful of their relative proximity to China vs. the US. They absolutely will not embrace any military buildup or confrontationalism.

China- Is a strategic rival of the US and shares a common border with North Korea. China is not a friend willing to reign in this wayward little state on its border. It's goal is simply to avoid an influx of North Korean refugees, for which it is more than happy to ship aid to that nation. If it can issue half-hearted guarantees and keep the US burning diplomatic capital on the issue, all the better.

North Korea- Loves being the center of attention, wants to blackmail and extort the west, wants to portray to its public that it remains a guerrilla state fighting against capitalist imperialist threats, and would love to have a permanent nuclear security blanket.

When you look at it this way, North Korea really holds all the cards here. There's little to nothing we ourselves can do. So, the real answer we should seek is not how to make North Korea disarm as a consequence of our actions, but how to alter the social preferences of our allies to get them to take steps that could effect the outcome. Nothing we do can force North Korea to disarm. However, an arms race with South Korea would bankrupt them and lead to the state's collapse. Nothing we do can force China to lean on North Korea, but the prospect of a remilitarized nuclear Japan could lead them to exert such pressure.

So, what policies could the US adopt to foster such cooperative attitudes? I think the answer is similar to the argument for why we will pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan. The argument there is that the only sure way to make the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan step up to the plate and fill the role we fill there is to pull our forces out and force them to fill the role themselves. Similarly, I think the only real way to get South Korea and Japan on board with this is to strongly consider the retraction of the US security umbrella over these nations and leave them to fight their own fight. We should be prepared to fill only a secondary role here. In other words, we shouldn't be the front-line state in the fight to get nukes out of Korea. We should simply be the backup for states willing to undertake this fight themselves.  

[Enoine]

That was very informational 0.0 so basically, it is just a giant mess that we may be able to clean up with the right words? Obviously that is putting it very simply but yeah. I think your right about all of that, especially us needing to remove the U.S. security umbrella. If anything, the removal would start something.  

[goodshot911SNK]

yeah nothings better than giving two kids big sticks and saying fight to the death and the winner gets a toaster lolJK

this is all true what you say Ive just never worded it in my head so I guess I would change my stance on that and well reconsider just bombing them all to hell  

[cherrydarlin999]

This is one subject that gets me nervous, because if you think about it, anything can happen. I think making nice is out of the question though. I don't think the rulers of N.Korea will ever want to make nice with the US. But that's just me. I hate how they treat their citizens and some of them are so brainwashed that it makes you want to cry! But unfortunetly, I think we will end up in a war with them, or my other theory: They will keep threantning us and never do anything. Even though I don't like the second theory, I hope it ends that way.

It might end up in war because of all the nuclear testing that has been going on over there. And the dictator...what's his name, Kim Long II? I forget. I just know he's short and scary. But I don't think that guy can be trusted. I think if they ever shoot a missle towards the US, that's what will start the next Korean War. Or htey will just keep testing nuclear weapons and not do anything to us. That's just my opinion.  

[Hallie Neko-chan]

I don't know if stepping out and away would really do much for us. I mean, North Korea seems to have it in for us, and haven't there been threats to fire weapons at us? I haven't heard much recently, so I can't speak much on it. I guess I'm just wondering.  

[goodshot911SNK]

well we cant afford another war we need to help the country rebel against that little guy in charge  

[Skibblez]

i'm just like... hey let's stop trying to be the police of the whole world, back out of all of them, let them take care of themself, and just turn any country that messes with us into a new ocean... save alot of money that way... hmm that would be a nice way to fix the deficit... stay out of other peoples problems  

[Lord Izaran]

Thrash em.

North Korea is now without stable allies in the region, and the only reason we haven't ended that war...weak kneed politicans sticking their noses where they don't belong: the battlefield. Do I NEED to quote Sun Tzu on the position of politicians and generals?

Same reason we lost Nam, and we might lose Iraq. Stupid weak politicians do not have the balls between their legs to win a war. If we lose Iraq, I don't think we could ever win a war again.  

[Ruyashie]

nuke the north and save the south  

[Servant Reborn]

I lack sufficient knowledge to make a statement at this time. I do wonder why the US seems to think it has to hold all the world's problems over its shoulder.

It used to be that US avoided involvement, but we're everywhere now. I think we are too involved sometimes, but that's just my opinion.  

[COMANDER COON]

A Lonely Leaf

I lack sufficient knowledge to make a statement at this time. I do wonder why the US seems to think it has to hold all the world's problems over its shoulder.

It used to be that US avoided involvement, but we're everywhere now. I think we are too involved sometimes, but that's just my opinion.

well I think we should invade not occupy though destroy the current guys and the south will take over the north

and well the reason why we need to do this is because they have the capability of making nukes and will sell them to anti american terrorists so it is are problem  

[Lysander the silent]

Like it or not, the US has become the world police. (I highly dislike this, because we've stretched thin as it is.) However, as for North Korea, we leave them be for now, and keep our eye on them. If they do anything, we warn them that any move at arming a nuke is a threat of war and will be treated as such. There is no going easy when it comes to nuclear/biological/emp warfare, so we should play hard-ball with them.