The Reality of Miracles

[Sanguvixen]

Ok...so this one comes right off of watching a snippet from the cursed 700 Club.

It has to do with so called miracles.

The tops guns of the 700 Club decide that they are going to cure and vaccinate every single child in some foreign country...against intestinal parasites that are plauging the children there.

So they raised a whole bunch of money, and bought a bunch of the vital medication needed to get rid of the parasites.

After the people on screen talk about thier plan, they go over to a clip of a mother, speaking in a foreign language(her voice is interphreted and overlayering the background).

She speaks about how she worried so much for her 4 children. She speaks about how the worms in thier bellies are slowly killing her children, and how she doesn't have the money to help cure them. Then she talks about how finally she "prayed to god".

Then she says her prayers were answered, because the medicene came. She says that "God answered my prayers, and I am so grateful."

Ok....the real truth is that it wasn't some diety answer her prayers. She just happened to benefit from the 700 Club's propaganda...and was one of the ones to receive the free medication for her children.

So it is a gift from an group of people, not a gift from God.

Anyway...ever notice that? How some of these religious programs go on and on about miracles from god...when really it was human intervention that saved lives, or cured people?

"God" didn't send bottles of medicene down to help those children. The 700 Club pleaded with thier viewers, and members for the money, got the money, and then spent it.

Anyway...I really can't stand it. How they take a situation that was perfectly normal, twist things around, and turn it into an act of god.

Here's this for truelly disgusting? They ask thier viewers to send in money, and those who pledge the highest amount(this happens once per day)...are blessed on the TV. They state the name of the ones who donated, and give a blessing to them.

Am I the only one finds this wrong? Send in money, and we'll bless you! I find the entire thing sick. Ok...that is a bit off-topic.

Anyway...which the whole Miracle thing:

There was a kid with down syndrom...was it down sydrome?...I can't remember the exact condition. Anyway...they had to go in, and do something with the inside of his spine.

The family prayed for success...and the doctors happened to have a good case on their hands. There were no complications, and the surgery turned out fine. Here the family preaches on the TV...that the reason thier child got better is because they were praying during the vital part of the surgery.

Anyway...who are these people kidding?

So if the discussion isn't obvious, discuss these supposed "Godly Miracles" and the truth behind them all.

Also discuss disgust at religious propaganda on the Television.

 

[mond -an- mitternacht]

Mmph...the religious people like that on TV are ignorant. They believe in God and absolutely nothing will stop them.

My brother and I were watching TV in the morning, and this religious dude named Ernest Angely came on. He was selling books about how the lord helped him(I think that's what it was about.. not sure.) and he was giving away free 'miracle water'. If you put the water all over yourself and prayed or something like that, God would heal you. He claimed it could heal diseases, like Cancer even. what a load of bull....
Uh...yeah. Anyone else see this guy?  

[Sanguvixen]

Tsuki katgirl

Mmph...the religious people like that on TV are ignorant. They believe in God and absolutely nothing will stop them.

My brother and I were watching TV in the morning, and this religious dude named Ernest Angely came on. He was selling books about how the lord helped him(I think that's what it was about.. not sure.) and he was giving away free 'miracle water'. If you put the water all over yourself and prayed or something like that, God would heal you. He claimed it could heal diseases, like Cancer even. what a load of bull....
Uh...yeah. Anyone else see this guy?

No I have never heard of him until now...but:

http://www.ernestangley.org/mirheal/mirheal.htm

I googled him. Wow...another one that belongs in the Insane Asylum.

Damn...he really is delusional. Sounds like Quackery to me!

 

[PickleBoy]

Heh heh heh. Quakery. My new fav word. ^^

Now... I think its great that people go around and do good stuff like that, but the whole fact that they say god saved their child or whatever is a load of bull. I mean seriously... how many children don't survive certain surgical procedures? Tons and tons. But will they tell you that? Of course not. Televanglists are probably some of the richest people out there. Tsk.  

[Zambimaru]

They just take advantage of the people who are sick and dying. They cure them, tell them god sent them, and use that as a way to make them convert. Those kids will probrably end up getting those worms again and the hole thing will start over.  

[Sanguvixen]

KiriyamaKazuo

They just take advantage of the people who are sick and dying. They cure them, tell them god sent them, and use that as a way to make them convert. Those kids will probrably end up getting those worms again and the hole thing will start over.

Heh...you read my mind. So what if they send the the medication?

That won't cure the long term problem. Even if they educate them a little...the problem isn't really the worms. It is the lack of economy....and without a good economy, there will always be those who suffer by sickness because they cannot afford to get medicene, or get to a hospital.

Everything that a majority of us take for granted....they do not have. Clean water, medication, and even unadulterated food. They don't have the economy to support those things, and so even if there is a vector to obtain them...it doesn't solve the problem.

 

[DivideByZero14]

How do we know for sure these televangelists believe in God themselves? I wouldn't put it past them to just be squeezing a living out of the ignorant suckers. You know, it's not that unlikely that everyone who's got half a brain are atheists. d**k Cheney, Bill Gates, the Pope...all these people in positions of power didn't get there by being stupid, and there is, historically, a demonstratable correlation between education and atheism.  

[Zambimaru]

Sanguvixen

KiriyamaKazuo

They just take advantage of the people who are sick and dying. They cure them, tell them god sent them, and use that as a way to make them convert. Those kids will probrably end up getting those worms again and the hole thing will start over.

Heh...you read my mind. So what if they send the the medication?

That won't cure the long term problem. Even if they educate them a little...the problem isn't really the worms. It is the lack of economy....and without a good economy, there will always be those who suffer by sickness because they cannot afford to get medicene, or get to a hospital.

Everything that a majority of us take for granted....they do not have. Clean water, medication, and even unadulterated food. They don't have the economy to support those things, and so even if there is a vector to obtain them...it doesn't solve the problem.

All the stuff they give and tell them is just temporary relief. Thats one way how religion spread to other countries in the old days. They brought modern medicen that they claimed their god gave them and if they converted they woudent have to suffer anymore. If they want to really make those people's lives better they should try changing the government.  

[Sanguvixen]

DivideByZero14

How do we know for sure these televangelists believe in God themselves? I wouldn't put it past them to just be squeezing a living out of the ignorant suckers. You know, it's not that unlikely that everyone who's got half a brain are atheists. d**k Cheney, Bill Gates, the Pope...all these people in positions of power didn't get there by being stupid, and there is, historically, a demonstratable correlation between education and atheism.

Pat Robertson is a televangelist. However....how can he preach one thing, and turn around to do something illegal? He gets away with stuff too, just because of his religiousness.

 

[caustic 0_0]

Sanguuuuuu

Am I the only one finds this wrong? Send in money, and we'll bless you!

Actually, this is a very old issue xD Still wrong, but it's not new and it's quite ironic too that the people doing that are Protestants..

Churches once sold indulgences, where priests absolve you of your sins. This and other church corruption led to the Protestant Reformation, which then led to the Catholic counter-reformation and such fun happy things as the Inquisition.  

[Kiaori Moon Warrior]

I was watching the tv late in the night, and I saw a reverend trying to sell "Faith Pills". To the point: you can do miracles if you take those pills.....
Thats just patetic.... stressed  

[PickleBoy]

Thats not just pathetic, its scary. Cause you know people buy them.  

[Lesilrok]

Miracles are another bullshit excuse that Theists use to back up their hollow claims. They say "It's a miracle" and I find it as a ******** cop-out excuse to say I don't know in which Theists just only lie to themselves.

Eventually every Theist will come to a point where they lie to themselves and others knowingly or unknowingly.

P.S. for the people who pmed me "you can quote that last line it's ok" mrgreen  

[Orson Welles]

I hate it when religious people thank God for what other people did. For example, I knew one person who lived through breast cancer and people were thanking God for it. I don't think they should be thanking God. They should be thanking the doctors and whoever else helped her survive.  

[caustic 0_0]

shinobikun

Eventually every Theist human will come to a point where they lie to themselves and others knowingly or unknowingly.

Don't kid yourself. It's something everyone does.


I can't comprehend the idea behind 'miracles' since they still occur on earth. Hence, whether you yourself can explain it or not, something physical and observable is going on. In these cases though, it's very often quite explainable. Saying something is a miracle is alot easier than explaining 'Well, they were able to perform this complex surgery due to the invention of __ in 1908, due to __, which then opened the door for advancements in___ and more recently ___ and then the doctor and staff came from good families who could support them and put them through very good college programs, and the government is very stable and the economy well off allowing for plenty of extra college funding and funding for___ and... so on."
And even a logical explanation can be ended with 'And we thank God for making all of this possible.' It's hard for an atheist to look at it that way obviously, but although we have alot of knowledge and can do things for ourselves, for people who have strong faith and see things as miracles from God, God is a provider. Everything around us and in us, including our mind and itellect, are thanks to God. So when all of the pieces seem to have just perfectly fallen into place and everything's gone just right to allow a certain event to occur and save someone, of course God is going to be thanked. "Through God all things are possible."
It's like thanking God that what you felt was right for you happened to coincide with what he knew was best for you as part of the larger plan. On the flip side, when things go against what you want, then well, God in his infinite wisdom just essentially 'knows better.'
For an atheist though, there isn't any sort of God involved, so the interpretation of things ends with the literal events.