Is Reality Perception & Can We Truely Perceive Reality? O_O!

[Dathu]

The thread "Does the Self exist?" sparked this topic.

For you "deep thinkers" I offer this postulate, or dare I say axiom.

The issue is whether perception is in fact a reality or whether true reality can be perceived. I am of the opinion that a perceived reality is a reality whether it be true or not, and that in truth, due to its self defeating nature, true reality can not be perceived.

To explain, here's a hypothetical situation:

Suppose all humans were color blind. The world exists in shades of grey. Some are very dark while others can be near white. While doing research on the light spectrum, a pattern of whites, greys, and blacks, they notice that two near identical shades of grey have two very different values, and appear on different sides of the complete visible spectrum. They then ask why. They develope computers to find the wave lengths. They find and analyze every conceivable measurement. They have tons of evidence showing that two seemingly identical shades of grey are completely different from each other, and yet, forgive the pun, they can't see the difference.

We, color seeing people, know that they are comparing red to a lighter blue. But they don't know that, and they won't ever think that they might not be seeing a change in color because to them there are no other colors than black, white, and shades of grey. They are completely incapable of seeing that their view of reality is limited by their perception. And that due to physical limitations, they are incapable of seeing the truth to their reality. And yet, however you look at it, grey is their reality.

This is our reality, but just because we call it reality doesn't make it a true reality, and in fact, like our color blind hypothetical brothers, we may be incapable of seeing the truth. Even now, we know that there are colors that, with the human eye, are unseeable. Another primary color hidden between the red, yellow, and blue, and perhaps beyond them. Perhaps it is due to our limited perception that we have so many unanswered questions about our reality. And yet, we would all agree that this is our reality.

So, what think ye?  

[Maryhl]

We do know that other colors exist. Just we as humans can only normally see in the one white-light spectrum. One extreme example I like to point out is the mantis shrimp.

These guys see in up to 16 light spectrums. But these animals hunt, so clearly it's capable of making sense of the world it's seeing. Kewl?

Back to the topic... I'm one to believe that perception is reality. Or another way to word it.. that reality is illusion.
It's probably not an accident that humans have long thought themselves in the center of the universe... because it does rather look that way. Just it may be more likely that we're more like mirrors, and just seeing the universe being reflected in our brains... so no matter what you are or where you are... you are just always having your senses say you are in the middle and everyone else is a little off.

...that make sense? sweatdrop  

[Dathu]

Kagerou Osajima

Back to the topic... I'm one to believe that perception is reality. Or another way to word it.. that reality is illusion.
It's probably not an accident that humans have long thought themselves in the center of the universe... because it does rather look that way. Just it may be more likely that we're more like mirrors, and just seeing the universe being reflected in our brains... so no matter what you are or where you are... you are just always having your senses say you are in the middle and everyone else is a little off.

...that make sense? sweatdrop

That made perfect sense, and I completely agree. biggrin

I want that crab's eyes.  

[Mythee]

Erm, I agree with your point of view, Kagerou, but there's also this:

Nobody and nothing can percieve true reality, because reality = everything that exists, and we can't possibly know everything that exists, whether we have 16-spectrum-vision or not. ^^ BUUUT surprised We can say that we know what true reality is by saying that it's everything in existence. 3nodding  

[Dathu]

Mythee

Erm, I agree with your point of view, Kagerou, but there's also this:

Nobody and nothing can percieve true reality, because reality = everything that exists, and we can't possibly know everything that exists, whether we have 16-spectrum-vision or not. ^^ BUUUT surprised We can say that we know what true reality is by saying that it's everything in existence. 3nodding

I wouldn't say "know." More like we have an idea. What if reality included things that don't exist?  

[Mythee]

Things that don't exist don't exist. But ideas that things that don't exist exist DO exist. xD  

[Dathu]

Mythee

Things that don't exist don't exist. But ideas that things that don't exist exist DO exist. xD

That depends on your interpretation of the word exist. But that's another issue.  

[Maryhl]

Well.. one could say that the imaginary things in my mind are not real. But they were put their by genetics, influence, knowledge, etc, etc. The neurons reacting to the fantasy are certainly operating. So that could very well be my reality.
It could be your reality too, only you can't consciously see it. Yet.. my imagination could become your conscious reality if I acted upon it.

Thoughts are ultimately action. Could be very tiny particle-size actions.. but nonetheless... they happen.  

[Sanguvixen]

I don't really believe in Reality. Reality as Dathu pointed out can be two different things for two diferent people.

What I believe in is called Illusion. Basically Reality is an illusion, because it isn't one...it is many.

How do I put this? Basically reality is a broken mirror. It has many cracks that seperate one kind of reality from another. Because there exists so many different realities...all we really have is illusion.

Humans live an illusion that they are masters of thier planet, and universe. However...if a house cat could talk...I think they would disagree. Cats are the masters of humans...and get away with amazing things that other animals cannot get away with.

Cats might think that they are rulers of this universe, because they live as fluffy parasites within human homes, get whatever they want, and don't have to do much at all. So in a Cat's reality...humans are second to them.

In a human reality, we own our pets. Ever stop to think wether or not we really own our pets, or do our pets own us?

See? What illusion of reality you follow depends upon your perception, what you are, your physical traits, and abilies, and mental processes.

Does that answer the question? Us humans think we are the only ones capable of speech, and we measure other animals by thier ability to mimick us. Perhaps other animals are capable of complex forms of speech, we are just incapable of understanding them.

Every time I come home I am greeted by a beautiful long-haired stray cat that has adopted my families porch. We feed her, and do our best to keep her happy. When I step out of the van I am greeted with a loud "Meow! Meeeow! Meeeeeow!."

I always meow back at her in my best immitation. I sometimes wonder exactly why she meows at me, and what exactly it means. Of course if I return her sound with my own human meow...she answers with the same "Meow!" Meeeow!" "Meeeeow!" In a sequence of about three meows.

So basically I step out of the door and this follows:

Bruiser(the cat's name): Meow! Meeeeow! Meeeeeow!

Me "Meow!" (a bad immitation)

I got into the gate and shut it.

Bruiser(cat): Meow! Meeeeeow! Meeeeeeeow!

Me(Human): Meow

Buriser(cat): Meeeeeeow! Meoow! Meeeeow!

Me(Human): Meow!

Bruiser(cat) Meow! Meoow! Meeeeow!

This follows all the way up to the house and ends when I enter it, and shut the door.

About 5 minutes later I leave the house to give her her daily portion of canned cat food. She knows he always get he canned catfood...but nonetheless every time I come out with it this happens:

Bruiser(the cat): Meeeeeeeeeow! (It is very long, demanding, and drawn out this one)

So tell me. Am I talking to the cat and not understanding what she is saying, or is she talking to me and not understanding what I am saying?

Is there a reality, or just an illusion involved?

Every single living thing is an individual. Every cat is an individual, and every human is an individual. If every individual had a individual reality...that would be too many realities for me.

So rather than saying we all have an individual reality...I would prefer to say we all have our individual illusions...and together all of those illusions make up a Broken Reality(which isn't really a reality at all).

 

[Maryhl]

Yet individually itself is an illusion too, ne?  

[Sanguvixen]

Kagerou Osajima

Yet individually itself is an illusion too, ne?

Individuality? That too can be considered an illusion. The only thing that seperates one human from the next is something very abstract. It is the way we think, percieve, understand, and react.

Every living thing is slightly different from the rest. Most of it is in our heads...literally.

 

[Mythee]

All of it is in our heads, but precisely, if reality is a big ensemble of seperate perceptions as you say, then you DO know what it is (the big ensemble), just not its content. xD  

[Maryhl]

That's why I like to think of people as omnipotent. You don't have to know all the cells of your body or how to operate your organs.. or even know they're there to make it all work... you just do it. Life is very smart like that.

I think the confusion comes when we're expected to put it into words.  

[Superior Jazz]

Perception creates reality.
Think of it this way...
I percieve that you are all intelligent creatures... but I cannot prove that. However... I percieve it to be true, and therefore, it is a reality that you are all intelligent, rational beings. Whether you are or not is not the issue. I percieve it. Therefore, in my own reality, you are all quite bright. In someone else's erality, a Christian, for example, we would all be idiots, and not intelligent at all. Because they percieve us to be so.
Therefore.
Perception creates reality.  

[Yami_Ichi]

Reality is different to everyone.

Take this example.

Go back to 1492, when Columbus was on his voyage. He came to the islands that he discovered. A man went up to the waters edge and saw some irregular waves in the water, waves that would have to be cause by some disturbance out in the water. He went back everyday, trying to see if he could see something. But, he still saw nothing. One day, he went back and he believed and said, "There is something out there." and that was when he saw the ships.

Scientists say that you can't see everything, for there are things in this world that no one has ever seen, so no one can believe that it is there. And if you don't believe it is there, you will not see it. When the man said that he was going to believe there was something out there, he saw it. His reality was a place with no ships, until he saw one and told everyone else they were out there and they all saw them.

That could explain why we don't see all the colors, or there are mysteries out there, no one takes the time to believe that they are there, so no one sees them. And because no one sees them, no one else can create them.

[I got the info on the Columbus/Indian thing from a movie I saw on the telly. ^^]