Offensive?

[MissMoppy]

Could Kaori Yuki's work be veiwed as offensive?

I have a friend who dislikes her work strongly. (We make a point not to discuss it anymore). She finds it offensive because of all the religious references and names, such as Jezebel from Count Cain.

I never really thought too much about it myself and don't really see the big deal. Maybe that's just me though?

 

[Irys the Flame]

offensive b/c of religious references and names???? never. if that were true then almost all manga/comics/shows and such would be offensive. i do not find kaori yuki offensive. so you're not alone. smile  

[Sai-kun]

I suppose you could. I don't and find it ludicrous to do so, then again I have some of the most liberal scruples of anyone I know ^_~

A lot of manga/anime/Japanese culture in general borrows themes from the West at their leisure and convenience, this includes Christianity.
It will of course, be interpreted in Japan's own cultural context, one of which does NOT include Christianity as one of the prime influences in their development (rather, the government discouraged citizens from adopting Christianity after the country opened up to the West, and promoted Shinto. To this very day, Shinto and Buddhism remain Japan's primary religions).
There is a different moral context in these eastern religions than in Christianity.

These stories in the bible become allegories for a theme, often a very fatalistic and dramatic theme, which the Japanese seem to love XD rather than anything that inspires some kind of moralistic guideline.
So they will use the story (and the personas) of Abel and Cain, say to portray familial strife. But there will not be the "thou shalt not" of the Abel and Cain story.

I mean a lot of the time, Kaori Yuki will celebrate the dark horse, anyway. This is probably the reason why many more religious minded people may find her work to be offensive, that and the teachings are taken out of context.

Its not that Kaori Yuki is anti-christian or anything, very little Asian people are...(China and Japan seem apathetic at best...Korea...I'm not sure...at least there is a fairly sizeable Christian following among Korean Americans. Southeast Asia I can't speak for except that Catholicism dwells there sometimes. END TANGENT.) the West and East just didn't develop under the same moral and religious terms so it means something different to each.  

[Creator of Destruction]

I can understand the reasoning behind finding her works to be offensive, but I still grow unbelievably irritated at anyone who I hear or see insulting her. Kaori Yuki's works go where most never dare, and those closed-minded fools who can't accept this don't deserve the time of day. But I can still see how people would be offended by her characters and plot lines. I don't see a problem with religious names, but it's the things like incest (I.E., Angel Sanctuary) that I would understand for people to find shocking.  

[Sai-kun]

Creator of Destruction

I can understand the reasoning behind finding her works to be offensive, but I still grow unbelievably irritated at anyone who I hear or see insulting her. Kaori Yuki's works go where most never dare, and those closed-minded fools who can't accept this don't deserve the time of day. But I can still see how people would be offended by her characters and plot lines. I don't see a problem with religious names, but it's the things like incest (I.E., Angel Sanctuary) that I would understand for people to find shocking.

Yeah incest has long held to be some unspeakably gross act, but I find myself becoming a little irritated when people only speak of the "incest thing" when they talk about AS. They also cite Sara and Setsuna's relationship as the reason why they don't like AS.
And I think that's a pity because Sara and Setsuna are really some of the weakest characters in the series, and their story becomes rather backseat after the first 3 volumes. And Kaori Yuki does a pretty good job of letting readers forget that they're brother and sister, their love is portrayed as so pure.
I'm a little ambivalent on the incest subject myself. Its not good when its forced as a form of abuse by figures in person's life, but I can't really say much for or against the cause when its between two consenting people capable of making their own intelligent decisions...  

[Creator of Destruction]

My thoughts exactly, Sai-kun. People have learned that Angel Sanctuary is nothing more than brother-sister love, and their tragically misinformed. The plot is so much more than that, and as you said you truly forget that Setsuna and Sara are related at all. They're one of those pairs that you just want to see together, because it makes you so happy. Unfortunately, people are so quick judge and so simply misunderstand things that they will refuse to read AS on this basis alone.

Another reason that I know some people won't--or in some cases, can't--read AS is because the Angels are portrayed, for the most part, as more corrupt and in some cases downright evil than the Demons in the series. We tend to find ourselves cheering for characters that in most other manga, anime, or even American novels and TV shows get stereotyped as the evil characters and antagonists, which some people can't seem to get over.  

[Genica Pussywillow]

[I suppose she could be seen that way]
[She does use a lot of taboos in her work, usually deliberately]
[She seems to find it more interesting and more of a challenge ^^]
[And, those sorts of things tend to put people off and annoy them.]  

[.Green.Tea.Pocky.]

For me,
personally,
the religious references make me like it oh so much more.
I'm in love with religion.
And ...
I dunno.
I don't think she means to be offensive.

 

[Bemused Dreamer]

I guess they COULD be, although I never really had a problem with any of her stuff (I might be a bit more open minded than most though...) Like Creator of Destruction said, I think the most offensive things in her works are the fact that many of the angels in Angel Sanctuary are corrupt, and the whole incest issue. That's probably a problem for some people in AS and Count Cain. And I guess the people who have a problem with gays wouldn't take too kindly to Boys Next Door...

But I dunno, I think the people who get deeply offended by those things, and refuse to read her works simply because of that seem pretty close minded (or so it seems to me).  

[Seliece]

Offensive? o_O Hardly. But, then agian, that's just me.

I find it rather clever with all those references and names, such as Riff, Cromwell, etc.

I love it, in fact heart Rawr, Cain! XD He has a large part in the fact that I love it.

 

[alicelights]

I'm not offended by her work at all! Annoyed at times, but nothing stronger than that.

One important thing to realise is people have a dreadfull habbit of labeling themselves... and getting rather paranoid about it. I think we all do it to an extent, but about different things (--see * below for my own personal case)

I notice this happens a lot with things like religion and race. People seem to want to believe that they are a pursecuted minority (heck, sometimes they are. I have trouble believing christians are though) ... because being a pursecuted minority is just that much cooler than being mainstream.


Second thing, takling subjects like religion is going to get tomatos thrown at you wherever you stand. People often object whenever something they take seriously is brought into 'entertainment'. It feels like they are not being respected.

*I am Dyslexic... and remember when I read some comics doing a good-natured parody of this learning disability. I felt defensive and a little angry about it... Only later did I realise how daft I was being... because even though it wasn't being tackled as a 'serious' subject, they weren't pretending otherwise.  

[Sai-kun]

alicelights

I'm not offended by her work at all! Annoyed at times, but nothing stronger than that.

One important thing to realise is people have a dreadfull habbit of labeling themselves... and getting rather paranoid about it. I think we all do it to an extent, but about different things (--see * below for my own personal case)

I notice this happens a lot with things like religion and race. People seem to want to believe that they are a pursecuted minority (heck, sometimes they are. I have trouble believing christians are though) ... because being a pursecuted minority is just that much cooler than being mainstream.


Second thing, takling subjects like religion is going to get tomatos thrown at you wherever you stand. People often object whenever something they take seriously is brought into 'entertainment'. It feels like they are not being respected.

*I am Dyslexic... and remember when I read some comics doing a good-natured parody of this learning disability. I felt defensive and a little angry about it... Only later did I realise how daft I was being... because even though it wasn't being tackled as a 'serious' subject, they weren't pretending otherwise.

Also if the foundations of what is deemed right and true and normal is shaken, people get pissy.

I understand people taking offense when something they regard very seriously seems trivialized, but once again theyre looking from their own eyes, their own point of view and not considering where the work actually comes from and the point of view of the author and her culture.

Its almost imperialistic, ne...it always helps to step into other people's shoes when you get pissed off.  

[AnubusRa]

I don't see any offence my friends and i love the religious statire.  

[raantuva]

If that's the case, than ALL manga should be viewed as offensive. Because it's from another culture, one has to take it with a grain of salt. The Japanese as a whole are known for religious indifference. They don't mind blending elements from things that weren't meant to be practiced together. Maybe Yuki-sama is Catholic?

From an anthropological perspective, Yuki-sama is actually a GOLDMINE for throwing so many themese into her work that push people's buttons. It's great to see someone in such an isolated country trying to include such interesting elements in their plot, accompanied by even more interesting and beautiful artwork. Her manga pages deserve to be in a fine-art gallery with their own freaking WING... No. Their own BUILDING!

It sounds like your friend was not being open-minded at all. Perhaps they are being to judgemental? I personally enjoy the symbolism. I was raised in a repressed, strict religious household and it pleases me that I can pick up on the greater meaning in an artist's work because of that...

 

[RionaDaidouji]

I never really got offended, per say, but it bothers me a little that she made Lucifer a likable character in AS. Even though I know that the Lucifer in AS is very different than the one in the Bible, the idea still makes me uncomfortable.

But would I stop reading AS just because hordes of fans tell me that Lucifer is their favorite character?..... Well, okay, almost... Luckily I was already attatched to some of the other characters by the time I met some of the more obsessed fans, so I wasn't turned away completely.