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Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:28 pm
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Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:06 pm
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Kitsune Ketz Kwineight Captain
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Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:58 pm
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Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:18 pm
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Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:01 am
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Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:41 am
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Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:56 am
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Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:17 pm
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Chibi Kitsune Warrior Crew
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Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:58 pm
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Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:07 pm
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Chibi Kitsune Warrior Crew
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Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:24 pm
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Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:48 pm
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Ohkami Majin Wow, Lady Lunar Phoenix, you certainly present a great argument. I can't say I agree with everything that you said, but at least you backed up your dislike for legitimate reasons.
Oh I know. I know a great deal of his problems come from his dad. But I get so tired of everyone whinning about how they are who they are because of their parents. But when you think on it, a great deal of his problems comes from years of enabling his dad. With someone like his dad who never has to face what drinking has done to him, it's bound to affect Jounouchi. Since his dad seems to be under the profile of 'nasty' drinker, someone with a temper, someone who thinks and probably complains that all the bad things in his life are because of someone else... You can see this reflected into Jounouchi. Because obviously losing his wife and daughter didn't have an effect on daddy dearest. Jounouchi acts in much the same manner, something has to be physically in front of him before he will take notice of it. Again you see an drinkers' abusiveness with how he handled Yugi. All that talk of 'making a man out of Yugi' was probably something his dad put him through. Yet here he is always talking about wanting to be a true duelist, but he doesn't change aspects of himself that hold him back. Granted he can't beat up on short people anymore without upsetting Yugi, but his behavior off the dueling field is very unprofessional.
Thinking like this came from me trying to figure out Jounouchi during a mental Kaiba rant. Trying to figure out how to get these characters to grow and mature. And the thing that stuck out for me about Jounouchi is that he's never really been forced to face that side of himself. He just thinks if he's a duelist then he doesn't have to deal with his dad, and his dad's influence on him. Dealing with other duelists, and trying to be a duelist afords him the chance to avoid his dad and his own personal problems. While Kaiba has grown from being a very cold, (Murderous) CEO with no compassion or heart into someone who while cold is kinder hearted, and in his own way looks after Yugi and his group. And while Yugi has grown from being a bully magnet to someone who can stand on his own. Jounouchi has only grown in terms of being a duelist, not a person. Which is something I have to fix in my fic... Which is what led me to my glaring dislike of him in the series.
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Kitsune Ketz Kwineight Captain
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Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:04 pm
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That's a great argument LLP, and I do agree with quite a bit of it, even though Jounouchi is my favorite character. But really, those reasons you described, are part of the reason I love Jounouchi. He's not some guy who's always caring and selfless. He has tons of flaws which make him a more interesting character. He has caused suffering for quite a few people even though he tries to be "the good guy." He grew up as a gang member and a bully. While he was a little better than other members of Hirutani's gang, by not beating up significantly weaker people, he was still not a good person. Considering that, he has improved quite a bit but of course still isn't perfect. He was cruel to Yuugi and Yuugi was able to show him what friendship and self-sacrifice were. Yes, Jounouchi needed a pretty harsh example of Yuugi getting beat up for him, but at least he was able to accept friendship and change. To me, it feels like this bad attitude, many mistakes, and selfish yet arrogant personality get better as the time line goes on. Like it says at the end of the YUU*GI*OU manga, this story was each character's individual story. Well I think part of Jounouchi's story was himself becoming a better person. Sure, he never became as kind and lover as Yuugi or Anzu, but it's something. And I agree that Jounouchi has pissed me off many times, like when he refused to go see Shizuka in the hospital, told Mai she wasn't in his dream, and then the many occasions he's bragged, but I've learned to get over those times because no one is perfect. (Except for pegasus but we're not going to get into that now...) Even under all his flaws, I've always seen the good heart that Jounouchi so often hides. I feel the same way about Kaiba. He's such an a** but he really is a good person, which is why I love him too. ^^ By the way, all I was trying to say was the reason I like Jounouchi. I'm perfectly fine with you hating him LLP. Oh, and in one thing of defense, when Jounouchi was sitting on the beach, it wasn't exactly because he was so worried about Red Eyes. It was more like he felt like he sucked and wasn't worthy to be there for Shizuka if he couldn't even hold onto his most precious card. Yeah, still pathetic and stupid, but at least it's better than simply being more worried about a card than his sister. Plus, I doubt he realized that she would refuse to get the surgery if he wasn't there. Yay, done with rant. ^^
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Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:14 pm
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Lady Lunar Phoenix Ohkami Majin Wow, Lady Lunar Phoenix, you certainly present a great argument. I can't say I agree with everything that you said, but at least you backed up your dislike for legitimate reasons. Oh I know. I know a great deal of his problems come from his dad. But I get so tired of everyone whinning about how they are who they are because of their parents. But when you think on it, a great deal of his problems comes from years of enabling his dad. With someone like his dad who never has to face what drinking has done to him, it's bound to affect Jounouchi. Since his dad seems to be under the profile of 'nasty' drinker, someone with a temper, someone who thinks and probably complains that all the bad things in his life are because of someone else... You can see this reflected into Jounouchi. Because obviously losing his wife and daughter didn't have an effect on daddy dearest. Jounouchi acts in much the same manner, something has to be physically in front of him before he will take notice of it. Again you see an drinkers' abusiveness with how he handled Yugi. All that talk of 'making a man out of Yugi' was probably something his dad put him through. Yet here he is always talking about wanting to be a true duelist, but he doesn't change aspects of himself that hold him back. Granted he can't beat up on short people anymore without upsetting Yugi, but his behavior off the dueling field is very unprofessional. Thinking like this came from me trying to figure out Jounouchi during a mental Kaiba rant. Trying to figure out how to get these characters to grow and mature. And the thing that stuck out for me about Jounouchi is that he's never really been forced to face that side of himself. He just thinks if he's a duelist then he doesn't have to deal with his dad, and his dad's influence on him. Dealing with other duelists, and trying to be a duelist afords him the chance to avoid his dad and his own personal problems. While Kaiba has grown from being a very cold, (Murderous) CEO with no compassion or heart into someone who while cold is kinder hearted, and in his own way looks after Yugi and his group. And while Yugi has grown from being a bully magnet to someone who can stand on his own. Jounouchi has only grown in terms of being a duelist, not a person. Which is something I have to fix in my fic... Which is what led me to my glaring dislike of him in the series. Wow, you have a really good point here! Never thought of it that way, but you're completely right. Still, that doesn't give me any kind of dislike for Jounouchi. To me this just gives the fans more input on Jounouchi's character with our imaginations. That means it's up to us if Jounouchi ends up becoming a better person instead of just a better duelist and getting over his personal problems, and it's also up to us to determine how it happens. I've always loved it when manga, etc. leave it up to the imaginations of the fans to determine important things like that. Actually, I think your rant has made me like Jounouchi more, because now I can look at him as even more flawed than I thought. XD I really don't like it when characters are too perfect and start out all bad and improve in themselves throughout the series so much. Most people don't become better people so easily. It really makes Jounouchi more complex and realistic than most people realize. The majority of people, if they grew up with a drunken father and divorced parents, etc. would have a lot of flaws and wouldn't only require friendship and dueling to get over that. Thank you for this rant of your's because it really gave me more insight into Jounouchi and more interest in his character flaws. Now I just have to leave it to my imagination on how he continues to change after the series. ^^
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Kitsune Ketz Kwineight Captain
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Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:17 pm
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