Does God have a religion?

[Six Billion of Spades]

I was thinking the other day [King George, if you're reading this, it's a joke, so don't send hitmen after me] about that lovely brand of Christians™ who tell you that atheists are just a bunch of arrogant t**t-goblets who can't deal with the fact that there might be a god, or at least some kind of super-being higher than themselves. I came up with something to ask these people:

Doesn't that make God an atheist?

By definition, if there is a God, then there is probably no higher power than him/her. The Christian God, obviously not willing to accept that possibility, can only be described as an atheist, or at the very least, agnostic.

Of course, any thinking [ question ] Christian will say something like this: "But God believes in himself, and he is God, so he can't be an atheist." Problem is, that makes him just as arrogant as the Christian is claiming atheists to be, since he is unwilling to consider the concept of a power higher than himself. Who knows... if there is a god (which there more than likely isn't), he could have a god as well.

... OK, if you can't tell by now, I'm not entirely serious. But still, I think there's at least some validity to the claim that gods are atheists.

What do you guys think?  

[Dathu]

My only question would be, why would God be unable to believe in a power higher than himself? As an ex-Christian I don't remember the bible ever saying there was no possibility of there being a higher being, just that God is the most powerful that does exist. It's sort of like saying "A blue whale is the greatest mamal." Could there be a bigger mamal? Sure, if one evolved, there just isn't a bigger mamal.


Besides a power so great that none greater can exist, actually can't exist. It's a mathmatical falicy. If you say God is a being in which no higher can be imagined, then god is infinity, but infinity has no value. It's like saying "This is the number in which no number can be higher." But that's not true, we can imagine a higher number, and we can imagine a more powerful being, therefore, god would have to be the highest number, but since there is no such thing as the highest number, there's no such thing as a god that none can be more powerful than. Does that make sense?  

[Arios V]

While that does make sense and would make great ammo to use against people who try to convert me. I will have to agree with Dathu on the mathematical bit. If you put God as Infinity, that would would mean that there would be no number greater, as Infinity is represented by the value of X, where X can be any number both rational and irrational.

In a roundabout why, this does kinda say that God is atheist or at least an agnostic because as Semper said that in order for the claim "God believes in himself" to be valid, that would be the same thing as what they beat on atheists about.  

[Dathu]

Arios V

While that does make sense and would make great ammo to use against people who try to convert me. I will have to agree with Dathu on the mathematical bit. If you put God as Infinity, that would would mean that there would be no number greater, as Infinity is represented by the value of X, where X can be any number both rational and irrational.

In a roundabout why, this does kinda say that God is atheist or at least an agnostic because as Semper said that in order for the claim "God believes in himself" to be valid, that would be the same thing as what they beat on atheists about.

Not only that but X (if X is representing infinity) actually has no value since a finite value can not be reached. It can't even have a number since what ever number is assigned, one greater can be applied. This is why the word "infinity" is more of a representation of a concept: the concept of "forever." But since concepts aren't real, if god is infinity, then god exists as concept only and not in reality.

But this also leads to the old argument of Gods ability. If God has infinate power, then god can do anything. If god can do anything, can god make a stone he himself can not lift? If he did, he would have created a limit to his power, and therefore a power that can lift that stone would be greater than god. However, if he couldn't create a stone that he can not lift, then once again the limit of his power is that he can not undo his own power, and once again in no longer a being of limitless power. Tricky huh?  

[Arios V]

Dathu

Arios V

While that does make sense and would make great ammo to use against people who try to convert me. I will have to agree with Dathu on the mathematical bit. If you put God as Infinity, that would would mean that there would be no number greater, as Infinity is represented by the value of X, where X can be any number both rational and irrational.

In a roundabout why, this does kinda say that God is atheist or at least an agnostic because as Semper said that in order for the claim "God believes in himself" to be valid, that would be the same thing as what they beat on atheists about.

Not only that but X (if X is representing infinity) actually has no value since a finite value can not be reached. It can't even have a number since what ever number is assigned, one greater can be applied. This is why the word "infinity" is more of a representation of a concept: the concept of "forever." But since concepts aren't real, if god is infinity, then god exists as concept only and not in reality.

But this also leads to the old argument of Gods ability. If God has infinate power, then god can do anything. If god can do anything, can god make a stone he himself can not lift? If he did, he would have created a limit to his power, and therefore a power that can lift that stone would be greater than god. However, if he couldn't create a stone that he can not lift, then once again the limit of his power is that he can not undo his own power, and once again in no longer a being of limitless power. Tricky huh?

I meant X as Infinity as I can't really get the infinity sign on my computer. Sorry for the poor wording, it's been a long day for me.

That is pretty complex, but I understand it. Basically either way, his power is going to be limited by some factor.  

[Dathu]

Arios V

Dathu

Arios V

While that does make sense and would make great ammo to use against people who try to convert me. I will have to agree with Dathu on the mathematical bit. If you put God as Infinity, that would would mean that there would be no number greater, as Infinity is represented by the value of X, where X can be any number both rational and irrational.

In a roundabout why, this does kinda say that God is atheist or at least an agnostic because as Semper said that in order for the claim "God believes in himself" to be valid, that would be the same thing as what they beat on atheists about.

Not only that but X (if X is representing infinity) actually has no value since a finite value can not be reached. It can't even have a number since what ever number is assigned, one greater can be applied. This is why the word "infinity" is more of a representation of a concept: the concept of "forever." But since concepts aren't real, if god is infinity, then god exists as concept only and not in reality.

But this also leads to the old argument of Gods ability. If God has infinate power, then god can do anything. If god can do anything, can god make a stone he himself can not lift? If he did, he would have created a limit to his power, and therefore a power that can lift that stone would be greater than god. However, if he couldn't create a stone that he can not lift, then once again the limit of his power is that he can not undo his own power, and once again in no longer a being of limitless power. Tricky huh?

I meant X as Infinity as I can't really get the infinity sign on my computer. Sorry for the poor wording, it's been a long day for me.

That is pretty complex, but I understand it. Basically either way, his power is going to be limited by some factor.

Oh no worries. I knew exactly what you meant, I just felt like elaborating since this is an argument I enjoy. biggrin  

[Arios V]

Dathu

Arios V

Dathu

Arios V

While that does make sense and would make great ammo to use against people who try to convert me. I will have to agree with Dathu on the mathematical bit. If you put God as Infinity, that would would mean that there would be no number greater, as Infinity is represented by the value of X, where X can be any number both rational and irrational.

In a roundabout why, this does kinda say that God is atheist or at least an agnostic because as Semper said that in order for the claim "God believes in himself" to be valid, that would be the same thing as what they beat on atheists about.

Not only that but X (if X is representing infinity) actually has no value since a finite value can not be reached. It can't even have a number since what ever number is assigned, one greater can be applied. This is why the word "infinity" is more of a representation of a concept: the concept of "forever." But since concepts aren't real, if god is infinity, then god exists as concept only and not in reality.

But this also leads to the old argument of Gods ability. If God has infinate power, then god can do anything. If god can do anything, can god make a stone he himself can not lift? If he did, he would have created a limit to his power, and therefore a power that can lift that stone would be greater than god. However, if he couldn't create a stone that he can not lift, then once again the limit of his power is that he can not undo his own power, and once again in no longer a being of limitless power. Tricky huh?

I meant X as Infinity as I can't really get the infinity sign on my computer. Sorry for the poor wording, it's been a long day for me.

That is pretty complex, but I understand it. Basically either way, his power is going to be limited by some factor.

Oh no worries. I knew exactly what you meant, I just felt like elaborating since this is an argument I enjoy. biggrin

I enjoy these debates myself. Wish there would be more of them, that way I could learn how to argue my points better and hopefully back the religious people into a corner where they have to admit I'm right.  

[Dathu]

Arios V

Dathu

Arios V

Dathu

Arios V

While that does make sense and would make great ammo to use against people who try to convert me. I will have to agree with Dathu on the mathematical bit. If you put God as Infinity, that would would mean that there would be no number greater, as Infinity is represented by the value of X, where X can be any number both rational and irrational.

In a roundabout why, this does kinda say that God is atheist or at least an agnostic because as Semper said that in order for the claim "God believes in himself" to be valid, that would be the same thing as what they beat on atheists about.

Not only that but X (if X is representing infinity) actually has no value since a finite value can not be reached. It can't even have a number since what ever number is assigned, one greater can be applied. This is why the word "infinity" is more of a representation of a concept: the concept of "forever." But since concepts aren't real, if god is infinity, then god exists as concept only and not in reality.

But this also leads to the old argument of Gods ability. If God has infinate power, then god can do anything. If god can do anything, can god make a stone he himself can not lift? If he did, he would have created a limit to his power, and therefore a power that can lift that stone would be greater than god. However, if he couldn't create a stone that he can not lift, then once again the limit of his power is that he can not undo his own power, and once again in no longer a being of limitless power. Tricky huh?

I meant X as Infinity as I can't really get the infinity sign on my computer. Sorry for the poor wording, it's been a long day for me.

That is pretty complex, but I understand it. Basically either way, his power is going to be limited by some factor.

Oh no worries. I knew exactly what you meant, I just felt like elaborating since this is an argument I enjoy. biggrin

I enjoy these debates myself. Wish there would be more of them, that way I could learn how to argue my points better and hopefully back the religious people into a corner where they have to admit I'm right.

Well, if there's an arguement that the theists use that you'd like to know more about how to counter, FIRST LOOK THROUGH SOME OF THE OLD THREADS!!! Didn't mean to cap ya, but we like to keep repeat posts down as much as possible. I'd say just run through the last 4 or 5 pages, and if you don't find one you like, feel free to post a thread of your own. It what we're here for. wink  

[Six Billion of Spades]

Wow... I honestly didn't think this would start a debate. But I should probably add something.

When Christians use the "arrogant atheist" argument, they're not necessarily arguing for the existence of a supreme being whose greatness cannot be surpassed, but instead the atheist's unwillingness to believe in it. So, as far as goes the possibility of God being an atheist, it doesn't really matter whether a higher being can exist or not. The crux of the argument lies in God's willingness to believe in one. Hey, the Christians do it all the time.

Basically, whether or not there is a higher power than us, we could still choose whether or not to believe in one. Although God's existence is in itself a logical fallacy, people still worship him. So technically, if God exists (even though this would void his God-status), he has the choice to believe in a higher being. Seeing as the Christian God does not, I'd say that makes him a pretty staunch atheist.  

[=X-Sparker + AquaKiller=]

that makes sense to me. what the christians say makes an infinite loop, which makes things complicated. and i don't like things complicated so i prefer there to be no god and there isn't an infinite loop and everything's nice and cool.  

[AnonymouZ]

Well, it all rests on the evidence that god has been shown (or in the omniscience way, evidence it already knew about, even before it's existence.) If it's reasonable to doubt the existence of an even higher being he'd probably be an agnostic. But (according to christian myth anyway) if he created everything, and that means EVERYTHING, what sort of evidence would he end up having of an even greater being than himself?

He doesn't even have a choice, since he created all... and unless he had created that greater being than himself (rock paradox related), the choice to believe in it, i think, does not even exist.

But yeah... i guess this was all better left at a joke-rebuttal for christians....

since we all know that gods are nothing but the delusion of many many people.  

[Six Billion of Spades]

Anonymouz

Well, it all rests on the evidence that god has been shown (or in the omniscience way, evidence it already knew about, even before it's existence.) If it's reasonable to doubt the existence of an even higher being he'd probably be an agnostic. But (according to christian myth anyway) if he created everything, and that means EVERYTHING, what sort of evidence would he end up having of an even greater being than himself?

He doesn't even have a choice, since he created all... and unless he had created that greater being than himself (rock paradox related), the choice to believe in it, i think, does not even exist.

But yeah... i guess this was all better left at a joke-rebuttal for christians....

since we all know that gods are nothing but the delusion of many many people.

Yes, it was meant as a joke. I just found it ironic that so many fundamentalist Christians are quite possibly worshiping a nonexistent agnostic/atheist, while at the same time speaking against atheism.  

[Arios V]

Dathu

Arios V

Dathu

Arios V

Dathu

Arios V

While that does make sense and would make great ammo to use against people who try to convert me. I will have to agree with Dathu on the mathematical bit. If you put God as Infinity, that would would mean that there would be no number greater, as Infinity is represented by the value of X, where X can be any number both rational and irrational.

In a roundabout why, this does kinda say that God is atheist or at least an agnostic because as Semper said that in order for the claim "God believes in himself" to be valid, that would be the same thing as what they beat on atheists about.

Not only that but X (if X is representing infinity) actually has no value since a finite value can not be reached. It can't even have a number since what ever number is assigned, one greater can be applied. This is why the word "infinity" is more of a representation of a concept: the concept of "forever." But since concepts aren't real, if god is infinity, then god exists as concept only and not in reality.

But this also leads to the old argument of Gods ability. If God has infinate power, then god can do anything. If god can do anything, can god make a stone he himself can not lift? If he did, he would have created a limit to his power, and therefore a power that can lift that stone would be greater than god. However, if he couldn't create a stone that he can not lift, then once again the limit of his power is that he can not undo his own power, and once again in no longer a being of limitless power. Tricky huh?

I meant X as Infinity as I can't really get the infinity sign on my computer. Sorry for the poor wording, it's been a long day for me.

That is pretty complex, but I understand it. Basically either way, his power is going to be limited by some factor.

Oh no worries. I knew exactly what you meant, I just felt like elaborating since this is an argument I enjoy. biggrin

I enjoy these debates myself. Wish there would be more of them, that way I could learn how to argue my points better and hopefully back the religious people into a corner where they have to admit I'm right.

Well, if there's an arguement that the theists use that you'd like to know more about how to counter, FIRST LOOK THROUGH SOME OF THE OLD THREADS!!! Didn't mean to cap ya, but we like to keep repeat posts down as much as possible. I'd say just run through the last 4 or 5 pages, and if you don't find one you like, feel free to post a thread of your own. It what we're here for. wink

Cool, I'll go ahead and do that. That and I'll keep an eye out for new threads and look through them. Also, I doubt I will make many threads, and chances are they will be dealing with current events or something like that  

[Theophrastus]

A burrito so hot even Jesus couldn't eat it.  

[Prince Rilian]

g0d would have to have faith in himself, or else he wouldn't exist, because he is a logical contradiction. Of course, that is assuming that believing something makes it true. Maybe, if you are omnipotent, the universe makes an exception for you.

Now the question is whether g0d is Jewish, Muslim, or Christian.