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 Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:55 am
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Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:39 am
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Biohazard EXTREME Well, hey, I'm not the one who used the term, "Dying the game blonde" to describe Americanizing it. It was Jun Takeuchi himself, so ask him.
Source?
Biohazard EXTREME That's my point exactly. It's not quite anime, it's like anime lite. There's Japanese influence, but only enough so that the American mainstream audience isn't detached from it. As opposed to games like Siren or Fatal Frame. And that's the thing, because they're catering to mainstream american audiences, their target audience won't pick up some of the things that are so obviously Japanese, because they're not that familiar with the culture. Like, look at Majini, the key word there is Majin, which roughly means demon in Japanese. Someone whose entire gaming history includes games like GTA, Halo, Call of Duty, probably won't pick up on something like that.
Okay, but what exactly is your point? I don't really get it. Are you saying that it's too Japanese or that it's not Japanese enough? And I hate to beat the dead horse, but Resident Evil has always been marketed to the mainstream American audience. Resident Evil has always been a mainstream franchise.
Biohazard EXTREME Well, that's the problem, see? You're saying, " series had some minor anime-type influences from the beginning, such as some of the creature designs. Code Veronica and RE0, in particular". I don't see RE0 and Code Veronica as being the beginning of the series.
Uhh, you're taking what I said completely out of context there. Please go back and read what you quoted and replied to. I never said RE0 and Code Veronica were the beginning of the series. I said the entire series had some very minor anime-ish influences since the beginning, and that Code Veronica and RE0, in particular, stick out in my mind as being very anime-ish in style, from story and over the top enemies, to some of the level designs.
Biohazard EXTREME At this point, RE0 and Code Veronica don't matter. Recently, I replayed through the Remake and RE3. Where I killed off Chris and Barry, and went for the A ending in RE3, where Nicholai gets killed by the Nemesis, and Barry never shows up. In that particular instance, that was the entire canon, provided I ignore Jill's Diary. You know what that is? That's what Video Games USED to be about. It's the freedom to mold the story the way YOU want it. There was a lot of it in RE1 and RE2, and quite a bit of it in RE3. Next time I replay the series, I might let Jill and Rebecca die as Chris, play RE2 and Code Veronica thereafter, and THAT's my canon in that particular instance. Freedom, man.
Well, firstly, I don't really see your point here... so you're saying that because Code Veronica and RE0 didn't have malleable outcomes, they're inherently inferior or something? All the games in the series had pre-determined plots with deliberately written endings, whether they were singular or multiple. The freedom you speak of is merely an illusion. Your actions may affect the ending slightly, but those actions still fall within the intentions of the game designers and are directed toward the goal of advancing the linear plot. There is still a canon (or 'true') ending for all of them (the exception being RE1/REmake, since you can't obtain the true ending). It's like with MGS1... I remember reading an interview with Hideo Kojima just as MGS2 was being released, and they asked him which one of the endings in MGS1 was the 'true' ending. He replied that they were both the true ending, because the player chose the outcome. Well, no, because Meryl dies in one of those endings. And now that we have MGS4, we know that Meryl did not die, so there is only one true ending to MGS1. The same goes for RE1, and so on.
Biohazard EXTREME My point is, yes, I realize that Code Veronica and RE0 are what started RE's downfall. And I keep them at arm's length. At this point RE1/Remake, RE2 and RE3 are the only sacred Resident Evil games, to me.
Well, I still like Code Veronica. I liked RE0 too. It's story blew, and it had some retarded s**t in it, but it was still a fun game. And at the end of the day, that's all that really matters, to me. |
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Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:30 am
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"Source?" How long have you known me? What ever happened to taking one's word for it?
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6204911.html?tag=result;title;0
Thee Stranger Okay, but what exactly is your point? I don't really get it. Are you saying that it's too Japanese or that it's not Japanese enough? And I hate to beat the dead horse, but Resident Evil has always been marketed to the mainstream American audience. Resident Evil has always been a mainstream franchise.
Same with Metal Gear Solid. But as far as fan bases go, both franchises developed a cult following more than anything. But I don't think RE has ever brought about as much hype as RE5 has. I mean, every mainstream gamer and their mother are giddy over this game. I don't ever remember a Resident Evil game making the list of a MOST anticipated game. Not until RE4 was released.
I used to talk to people, and maybe every 2 out of 5 people were like, "Yeah, I wanna play the new RE game", back in the old school days. Now it's like, 80% of the gamers I talk to are like, "Oh, man, I can't wait for RE5!" And this is, of course, the people that haven't played a single RE game before 4.
Thee Stranger Uhh, you're taking what I said completely out of context there. Please go back and read what you quoted and replied to. I never said RE0 and Code Veronica were the beginning of the series. I said the entire series had some very minor anime-ish influences since the beginning, and that Code Veronica and RE0, in particular, stick out in my mind as being very anime-ish in style, from story and over the top enemies, to some of the level designs.
Yeah, but that's where I'm saying the series started going wrong.
Frankly, any anime influences in the first three games weren't that obvious, aside from little things like Sherry's uniform and sliding library shelves, which are a standard issue in Japan, as I understand it.
Thee Stranger Well, firstly, I don't really see your point here... so you're saying that because Code Veronica and RE0 didn't have malleable outcomes, they're inherently inferior or something? All the games in the series had pre-determined plots with deliberately written endings, whether they were singular or multiple. The freedom you speak of is merely an illusion. Your actions may affect the ending slightly, but those actions still fall within the intentions of the game designers and are directed toward the goal of advancing the linear plot. There is still a canon (or 'true') ending for all of them (the exception being RE1/REmake, since you can't obtain the true ending). It's like with MGS1... I remember reading an interview with Hideo Kojima just as MGS2 was being released, and they asked him which one of the endings in MGS1 was the 'true' ending. He replied that they were both the true ending, because the player chose the outcome. Well, no, because Meryl dies in one of those endings. And now that we have MGS4, we know that Meryl did not die, so there is only one true ending to MGS1. The same goes for RE1, and so on.
Well, before MGS4 came along, Meryl could've easily been dead. Heck, I thought she was.
Look, the point isn't the ending the point is the journey. You could mold your own journey through which you get the ending. But lately, even the journey is linear. There's no, "Do I help this character, or do I let them die? Will I meet THIS character at the gas station or the other?"
Thee Stranger Well, I still like Code Veronica. I liked RE0 too. It's story blew, and it had some retarded s**t in it, but it was still a fun game. And at the end of the day, that's all that really matters, to me.
But it's one thing to screw up on one, two accounts. RE4 screwed up on EVERYTHING. Not only did the storyline blow, the merchant sucked, the over the top action wasn't right, the lack of Zombies, T-Virus, etc. It simply HELPED me realize how much I hate what RE has become. It threw me out of that perma-hype.
Frankly, there are some games that can get a bit tedious, but are worth playing through just for the storyline. Silent Hill 1 is one such game. Frankly, I didn't enjoy the gameplay mechanics of it very much. But it was worth playing because it was scary and it had a good story.
Games like Dead Space, on the other hand, despite that it had solid mechanics and great graphics, and hell, even a great backstory, the plot of the game itself bored the hell out of me, and I couldn't finish it.
With RE, it's different though, because my expectations of the storyline went one way, and Capcom went in a completely different direction. And I'd be a bit of a sheep if I just said, "Well, I'll just blindly follow whatever story Capcom hands over."
So, the only other thing to play RE for are the solid mechanics and pretty graphics, and like I said, without a storyline that I could actually get into, there's no point for me to play the game. |
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Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:39 pm
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Biohazard EXTREME Thee Stranger Well, I still like Code Veronica. I liked RE0 too. It's story blew, and it had some retarded s**t in it, but it was still a fun game. And at the end of the day, that's all that really matters, to me. But it's one thing to screw up on one, two accounts. RE4 screwed up on EVERYTHING. Not only did the storyline blow, the merchant sucked, the over the top action wasn't right, the lack of Zombies, T-Virus, etc. It simply HELPED me realize how much I hate what RE has become. It threw me out of that perma-hype. Frankly, there are some games that can get a bit tedious, but are worth playing through just for the storyline. Silent Hill 1 is one such game. Frankly, I didn't enjoy the gameplay mechanics of it very much. But it was worth playing because it was scary and it had a good story. Games like Dead Space, on the other hand, despite that it had solid mechanics and great graphics, and hell, even a great backstory, the plot of the game itself bored the hell out of me, and I couldn't finish it. With RE, it's different though, because my expectations of the storyline went one way, and Capcom went in a completely different direction. And I'd be a bit of a sheep if I just said, "Well, I'll just blindly follow whatever story Capcom hands over." So, the only other thing to play RE for are the solid mechanics and pretty graphics, and like I said, without a storyline that I could actually get into, there's no point for me to play the game.
Its also true for me as well. The story was what brought me to the franchise. I was completely turned off by the whole story of RE4. Completely ruined the atmosphere of the series. I still wished they pushed 3.5 further than going with what they finished. If it was up to me, I would tell Capcom to focus on a worthwhile storyline and forget pushing the graphics so far. I would be happy going back the original playstation graphics (sorry, I don't know what the correct terminology on the engine). But I'm pushing forward from what I seen in RE4 and adventure in playing RE5 just for the story. |
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Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:56 pm
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Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:38 pm
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Yeah I'm sort of like what bio said. I like the storyline. Game mechanics are good an all, but it doesn't mean s**t if the story lines sucks. I mean seriously people can adjust to the Game mechanics and controls, but the gamer can't adjust to the storyline. RE0 storyline was ok with me, though I didn't like somethings, but the bad part was the partner thing." Hello I very stupidly rushed in, hey partner help me out here." The whole point about a survival horror is to scare the crap out of you, but it's not that scary if you have a partner with you most of the time. I say most since there are a few times where they are sparated. RE5 is the same, and not only that, but you can get ammo from the dead bodies? I know it's gme, but they should make it more realistic." Hello can you drop some amo after I kill you? I'm kind of out of ammo." "sure no problem, even though our goal is to kill you." Like Bio said RE4 just blew everything out.
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Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:11 pm
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Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:28 am
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Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:23 am
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Aw, don't get the wrong idea. It's not that I think you're blowing smoke up my a**, it's just that I wanted to read this for myself, so I might better understand what you're saying.
Biohazard EXTREME Same with Metal Gear Solid. But as far as fan bases go, both franchises developed a cult following more than anything. But I don't think RE has ever brought about as much hype as RE5 has. I mean, every mainstream gamer and their mother are giddy over this game. I don't ever remember a Resident Evil game making the list of a MOST anticipated game. Not until RE4 was released. I used to talk to people, and maybe every 2 out of 5 people were like, "Yeah, I wanna play the new RE game", back in the old school days. Now it's like, 80% of the gamers I talk to are like, "Oh, man, I can't wait for RE5!" And this is, of course, the people that haven't played a single RE game before 4.
I don't know what you're talking about. RE and MGS definitely are not cult franchises. Yes, they're not for everybody. Nothing really is. But the reason they still crank out sequel and sequel is because they sell well. RE2 is still #1 out of all of them in terms of sales. And I remember REmake having quite a bit of hype back in the day. I'm not sure if it was on RE5's level, but it was there. I know I was hyped for it ever since the first trailer. But yes, unfortunately, we have the RE4 n00bs now. I was really hoping that RE5 was going to find that happy medium that would please both the OG fans and the n00bs, but as it stands now, I don't know if they're going to please anyone.
Biohazard EXTREME Yeah, but that's where I'm saying the series started going wrong. Frankly, any anime influences in the first three games weren't that obvious, aside from little things like Sherry's uniform and sliding library shelves, which are a standard issue in Japan, as I understand it.
Yeah, but I wouldn't say Code Veronica's story was all that bad. Yes, it's where it started getting a little over the top, but I could live with it. RE0 is really when they started putting in things I could live without. Seriously, Rebecca knew about EVERYTHING according to RE0. Don't you think she'd have a little more to say to Chris when they met up?
Biohazard EXTREME Well, before MGS4 came along, Meryl could've easily been dead. Heck, I thought she was. Look, the point isn't the ending the point is the journey. You could mold your own journey through which you get the ending. But lately, even the journey is linear. There's no, "Do I help this character, or do I let them die? Will I meet THIS character at the gas station or the other?"
She could have, but it wasn't clear. With the existence of MGS4, we now know what the true ending was. Other than that, I see what you're saying, and yeah, that stuff is cool and everything, adds some replay value, but it's still pretty linear.
Biohazard EXTREME But it's one thing to screw up on one, two accounts. RE4 screwed up on EVERYTHING. Not only did the storyline blow, the merchant sucked, the over the top action wasn't right, the lack of Zombies, T-Virus, etc. It simply HELPED me realize how much I hate what RE has become. It threw me out of that perma-hype. Frankly, there are some games that can get a bit tedious, but are worth playing through just for the storyline. Silent Hill 1 is one such game. Frankly, I didn't enjoy the gameplay mechanics of it very much. But it was worth playing because it was scary and it had a good story. Games like Dead Space, on the other hand, despite that it had solid mechanics and great graphics, and hell, even a great backstory, the plot of the game itself bored the hell out of me, and I couldn't finish it. With RE, it's different though, because my expectations of the storyline went one way, and Capcom went in a completely different direction. And I'd be a bit of a sheep if I just said, "Well, I'll just blindly follow whatever story Capcom hands over." So, the only other thing to play RE for are the solid mechanics and pretty graphics, and like I said, without a storyline that I could actually get into, there's no point for me to play the game.
Well, I think you know I like story more than anything. I'm just saying RE0 was a good game despite it's dumb retconning. And unfortunately, there's no choice in what storyline Capcom forks out, so I wouldn't call myself a sheep. I think I already told you that I choose my own canon. But really, as it stands right now, RE5's story is really the main reason I'm anticipating its release in the least bit. But... not expecting too much. It looks like there will be some interesting stuff, though. I'll just have to play it and see. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:26 pm
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Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:00 pm
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Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:08 am
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Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:07 am
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Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:34 pm
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Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:37 pm
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