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 Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:28 pm
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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:59 pm
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Ahem... sorry for the rambling nature of the following post... sweatdrop
I finally forced myself to read the UT version of the story, which I've been avoiding because, frankly, I hate the story in general.
Well.... I'm glad I finally read it, and I never plan to do so again. I don't particularly enjoy running to Japanese class slightly late with my face tear streaked, thank you very much. And that is what happened.
I have to say, as I read it, I began to hate Turin less and less. I'm not saying I began to like him, since that is frankly impossible, but I don't actively despise him anymore.
I do, however, begin to really, really dislike Morwen, who I now find more and more at fault all throughout. Why, oh why is it always that damned pride? Morwen... too proud to go to Thingol herself thus weaves the first strand of Turin's fate. If the damned woman had just gone, the whole tragedy could have been avoided (this is me trying not to use foul language gonk ).
What I found really interesting in the Narn and had never realised in the Silmarillion version was the theme of nudity. We have Saeros insulting Turin and saying that the women of Hithlum must run like deer clad only in their hair, then we have Turin stripping him and forcing him to run, and then, much later, we actually see Nienor running naked... Funny that I had never noticed that before. confused
Another thing I hadn't realised (and I don't think is mentioned in the Silmarillion) is that Saeros was actually a friend of Daeron. Well, this doesn't excuse anything, but it sure explains better his hatred for Turin. Not only is the Man now a professional rival, but also kin to Beren, the indirect reason why Daeron disappeared from Doriath. Very interesting...
What struck me as interesting was the comment about Glaurung being unwilling to cross the Haudh-en-Elleth, and Finduilas, even in death, still lying between Turin and his doom. I don't have anything to say about it, other than... eek
Another thing that has always interested me is the many names that Turin keeps on taking. My friend, PearlZenith, and I were discussing this at dinner, and found it striking how he's always running from something... Himself, and his destiny. Hence, the constant and meaningless name changes. What interests me about them is that in the text of the Narn, whatever name he takes upon himself, he is still called Turin in the narrative... until he uses the name Turambar. Odd that when he finally seems to escape his name, his destiny is fulfilled. But perhaps not so odd, when you consider the names meaning: Master of Doom.
Which leads me to my favourite line of all:
Turin Turambar turun' ambartanen.
Turin Master of Doom mastered by doom...
[edited] Just read the other posts, and Nimby's reminded me of another thing I had thought about and then brilliantly managed to forget. I'm sure there are a lot of them.
The frozen Pool of Ivrin. Heh... when I first read that, I went "WHOA", having missed the statement prior concerning it being winter. Still, for me, this symbolises that at this point, healing is something that will be impossible for Turin to find. He's dug himself too deeply into this mess, and there's no way out.
In conclusion, it's an absolutely beautiful, horrible, emotional, and disturbing tale, and I love it and hate it immensely.
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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:47 pm
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Nandelle Another thing that has always interested me is the many names that Turin keeps on taking. My friend, PearlZenith, and I were discussing this at dinner, and found it striking how he's always running from something... Himself, and his destiny. Hence, the constant and meaningless name changes. What interests me about them is that in the text of the Narn, whatever name he takes upon himself, he is still called Turin in the narrative... until he uses the name Turambar. Odd that when he finally seems to escape his name, his destiny is fulfilled. But perhaps not so odd, when you consider the names meaning: Master of Doom.
That's interesting. I like it.
One thing I noticed in the UT version that I forgot to comment on was the line that Hurin has about disliking the visor of the Dragon-helm.
Quote: But Hurin did not wear the Dragon-helm with ease, and in any case he would not use it, for he said: 'I would rather look on my foes with my true face.'
Then we have Turin deciding to wear the dwarven-mask (as well as constantly changing his name) in an attempt to hide from and delay his fate. So it's sort of another physical representation of this identity-and-thus-fate shirking.
Nandelle What I found really interesting in the Narn and had never realised in the Silmarillion version was the theme of nudity. We have Saeros insulting Turin and saying that the women of Hithlum must run like deer clad only in their hair, then we have Turin stripping him and forcing him to run, and then, much later, we actually see Nienor running naked... Funny that I had never noticed that before.
Hm... maybe nudity is associated with baseness, primalness, or lack of 'civility'? I thought the focus of Saeros' insults to Turin was about the hair rather than the nudity, because Saeros also tells Turin his hair looks really stupid and that it needs a comb and a cut. But it's probably about both, come to think of it.
There's also the recurring lame-legged characters in Labadal and Brandir. The former's cut out of the Sil though, so maybe it's not as important.
Finally, I think Morwen's pride is meant to also explain Turin's nature somewhat, since he takes after her in looks as well as temperament. And I can see why she didn't go to Thingol. You'd want to hang on to whatever remains to you from happier days, be it your house or your friends or your dignity, right? She was also clinging to the hope that Hurin would return, and she also had Nienor to consider. So, I don't blame her. |
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Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:03 pm
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I've just finished reading the Lost Tales version of the Tale of Turin. I thought that I would never read this story again, after reading the UT version, but I just couldn't leave it unread. I'm struck by how much of the narrative stays the same throughout the UT, BLT, and the Silm. However, the character of Turin in this version is much more humble, at least in the beginning, than it appears in the Unfinished Tales.
The relationship between Turin and Faelivrin (Finduilas) is less troubled than later versions and is pretty much mutual, and Turin is caught by the dragon as he's trying to defend her. What makes this part just unbearable for me, is that he is aware of everything that is happening while he's under the influence of "Glaurung's" gaze, but he is unable to move to save anybody. I mean, I actually feel sorry for this guy for most of the story, whereas in the Silmarillion version, he just makes me ill.
This Turin also experiences less mishaps before his capture by orcs, meaning no band of outlaws and maltreatment of Beleg, which makes Beleg's attachment to him quite understandable in this version. Plus, he's much more honest about his identity, at least until "Glaurung" enthralls him, and lies to him. I don't remember him requesting death so many times in any other version, either. Another thing I was surprised by was how much I didn't mind him slaying a lot of the people he did, excluding Beleg, because they all seemed to have done more to provoke their deaths than in later versions of the tale, or at least they were made more explicit to me. It could also be that I'm kinda dense, and this reading of the tale has finally brought some details to light I've overlooked before. I've mostly just read the story with dread of what is to come, but since the Lost Tales tend to be quite different from their end results in the Silmarillion, I wasn't quite so worried about the ending this time. Not that it was any different, and in fact, this story seems to be one of the least changed narratives of the stories that end up in the Silmarillion. The final changes have made it a much more powerful story than it's beginings, but I miss the pathetic Turin I can more easily feel sympathy for from the Lost Tales.
Heh, on an amusing note, the gnomish translation of Turambar as Turumart makes me think of the Simpsons, and Jiffy-mart.
I may add more to this post later, but these are my most immediate thoughts that I'm able to actually formulate as words.
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Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:39 pm
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Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:22 pm
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Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:24 pm
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Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:37 pm
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:19 pm
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:49 pm
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Nimbrethil Ah yes, I remember that picture. I like it. 3nodding Did you read the comments underneath? Furry-footed Nerf Herder um...I love the expression, but the girl lookslike a bad drama student and he does kinda look like he's about to pull his face off I think that speaks for itself. rolleyes
xp
Yeah, I read that. I don't see how Gwindor could be mistaken for a girl in that picture. Maybe it's because of how his shirt is fitting his chest? >_< |
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Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:01 pm
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Nimbrethil Ah yes, I remember that picture. I like it. 3nodding Did you read the comments underneath? Furry-footed Nerf Herder um...I love the expression, but the girl lookslike a bad drama student and he does kinda look like he's about to pull his face off I think that speaks for itself. rolleyes
HAH!
Honestly, I like the pic, but don't like the image of Gwindor at all. I think he does look like a girl (that's some chest, otherwise sweatdrop ). And he looks to well dressed and healthy to have just escaped from 17 years of slavery in Angband... confused |
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:33 pm
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Melian I finished Beren, Luthien and Nirnaeth Arnoediad. But since we're past that.. whee I really like the story of Turin. All kinds of good stuff in this one. I laughed at the cup throwing scene. It was funny. Other people's pain can be amusing. Right. I'll finish and get some good intellectual comments later. ( rolleyes )
The Tale of Turin is my favorite.
Next time, Beleg will remember to announce his arrival... or... not. |
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:21 pm
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Ryuke Melian I finished Beren, Luthien and Nirnaeth Arnoediad. But since we're past that.. whee I really like the story of Turin. All kinds of good stuff in this one. I laughed at the cup throwing scene. It was funny. Other people's pain can be amusing. Right. I'll finish and get some good intellectual comments later. ( rolleyes ) The Tale of Turin is my favorite. Next time, Beleg will remember to announce his arrival... or... not. |
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Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:55 am
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Reply
