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 Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:22 pm
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:50 pm
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FoxyAreku Thee Stranger Um, if you consider the conveyor belt zombies and reapers scares, I feel sorry for you. Atmosphere matters. RE5 had no creepy atmosphere. Nighttime or not.
The conveyer belt zombies WERE scary. I highly doubt you were expecting them to jump on you your first time.
And I highly doubt you were expecting reapers to be able to instant kill you in such a gruesome and painful looking way.
The creatures in a horror game matter a hell of a lot more then 'atmosphere'. Without them, what would we have? A bunch of decrepit hallways where nothing happens. No RE game has ever had amazing atmosphere aside from Zero and a little bit in Outbreak, yet they are still scary games. neutral
'cept four of course, that game still sucks in every way possible. stare
I disagree with your statement about creatures mattering more than atmosphere. Would the Licker in RE2 been as scary as it was without the dark, dank hallway and the glass windows that held the starving undead from getting to you? I don't think so. The Lickers in 5 were a nice touch, but nowhere near as scary as they could have been, imo. And also, those decrepit hallways where nothing happened? Scary. When the music cut out and you realize you're in silence? That freaks me out. But, to each his own, I guess smile .
For the Record, I found the REmake to be the scariest of all of them. Originally it was my copy of Directors cut, but it took me almost a week to get past the dining room in Remake. I was that freaked out. |
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:45 pm
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I mean no offense, but that is a very weird viewpoint.
When I first encountered the licker in RE2, I didn't think "Oh, there's a dead body a few feet behind me and the windows are broken, this is so creepy!" I thought "OMG, that thing looks so gross and deadly! RUN!"
But that's just me. XP
Atmosphere helps, but in no way does it make all the fear that emits from the game, the creatures you face are what matters most I believe..
Like, this may be a poor example, but my room here in my house isn't a very scary place (least not to most people), but if some deformed monster showed up in it, I would still be scared to death. rofl
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:11 pm
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Canas Renvall Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:56 pm
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Canas Renvall I have to respectfully disagree with both of you. ...Or maybe agree with both, I dunno. razz Certain games can pull off certain things creepily as can be with different elements. RE, the atmosphere is second to the grotesque, creepy monsters (though it is still present). Silent Hill is much more about the atmosphere and the things you can't see or interact with. The monsters take second place there. It's so much so that in SH2 (at least that's the only one I've seen it in), the action level "Beginner" takes out all enemies completely so you can focus on the puzzles and atmosphere. Granted, it makes it less scary knowing you're safe from monsters, but I've played through it and it's still extremely atmospheric and frightening. The suspense and atmosphere are still omnipresent through and through, enemies or not.
There are no enemies on beginner in SH2? Surely the bosses are still there?
That sounds very strange, I will have to try that mode someday, I just skipped to normal mode myself.
Silent Hill is the only series where I believe atmosphere is more important, because they pull it off so magnificently. |
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:19 pm
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I'd like to join this atmosphere vs. creatures debate.
Frankly, and this is for me, so don't get your knickers in a twist, atmosphere is nothing without the creatures.
If I were to take a situation from Silent Hill 2, the hotel area scared the ******** out of me. The darkness that consumed the hallways were shiver inducing, but only for the fact that I knew not what lied behind it's shroud. But, if I knew there was nothing to worry about in the darkness, than it really wouldn't be scary then, would it?
Which I can't really say the same for creatures. Face it, if you ran into Nemesis even in a bright and sunny park, he'd still be scary as all hell. Or, at least any creature you think is really scary, would you not think they were still scary even in the daylight surrounded by trees and flowers?
A structured well surrounded by beautiful foliage gives off a serene atmosphere, but let's see your nerves NOT tense up if a girl with a hidden face and soggy, decomposing flesh crawled out of it and came slithering towards you.
For Resident Evil, I've always loved the atmosphere for 2 and 3, the dying city, but what really made it scary was why the city had the atmosphere it had...And that was because of the creatures...Zombies. Silent and inactive hallways are scary because you know for a fact that you still aren't alone, and that beyond the door will more then likely be something to give you a jolt, a real scare.
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:08 am
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The Not So Evil Deadite I'd like to join this atmosphere vs. creatures debate. Frankly, and this is for me, so don't get your knickers in a twist, atmosphere is nothing without the creatures. If I were to take a situation from Silent Hill 2, the hotel area scared the ******** out of me. The darkness that consumed the hallways were shiver inducing, but only for the fact that I knew not what lied behind it's shroud. But, if I knew there was nothing to worry about in the darkness, than it really wouldn't be scary then, would it? Which I can't really say the same for creatures. Face it, if you ran into Nemesis even in a bright and sunny park, he'd still be scary as all hell. Or, at least any creature you think is really scary, would you not think they were still scary even in the daylight surrounded by trees and flowers? A structured well surrounded by beautiful foliage gives off a serene atmosphere, but let's see your nerves NOT tense up if a girl with a hidden face and soggy, decomposing flesh crawled out of it and came slithering towards you. For Resident Evil, I've always loved the atmosphere for 2 and 3, the dying city, but what really made it scary was why the city had the atmosphere it had...And that was because of the creatures...Zombies. Silent and inactive hallways are scary because you know for a fact that you still aren't alone, and that beyond the door will more then likely be something to give you a jolt, a real scare.
You have put my own thoughts into words that I could not think up myself. I salute you. |
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:40 am
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FoxyAreku Thee Stranger Um, if you consider the conveyor belt zombies and reapers scares, I feel sorry for you. Atmosphere matters. RE5 had no creepy atmosphere. Nighttime or not.
The conveyer belt zombies WERE scary. I highly doubt you were expecting them to jump on you your first time.
And I highly doubt you were expecting reapers to be able to instant kill you in such a gruesome and painful looking way.
The creatures in a horror game matter a hell of a lot more then 'atmosphere'. Without them, what would we have? A bunch of decrepit hallways where nothing happens. No RE game has ever had amazing atmosphere aside from Zero and a little bit in Outbreak, yet they are still scary games. neutral
'cept four of course, that game still sucks in every way possible. stare
Butthurt much?
No, I wasn't expecting the conveyor belt zombies to pop up at first. That doesn't mean they were scary. It's simply a BOO! moment. Maybe that made you jump, but that's not what I consider horror. A random, unexpected explosion in an action game could make someone jump.
And no, I'm not psychic, so I wasn't aware that the Reaper would instantly kill me at first. Again, that doesn't mean they were scary. I was just sure to keep my distance when handling them.
There are many different elements that are intrinsic to a horror game/movie/whatever. Use of lighting, camera angles, subtlety, pacing, timing, tension, music: atmosphere. It's a huge part of it. Probably the most vital and important.
You know, the movie Starship Troopers has plenty of grotesque creatures running around, and I'm sure if I saw something like that in broad daylight in real life, I'd certainly s**t myself. But we're not talking about real life here, and did I find those creatures in Starship Troopers scary? Hell no. Because it was a ******** action movie. There was a crowd of commandos with BFGs filling them full of bullets the whole time in broad daylight. Now if you took some of those creatures and stuck them in a dark, blood splattered corner somewhere in something like a Silent Hill game, then they might induce some fright. If you threw me into a FPS game in real life, where people were pointing and shooting live M16 rounds at me, I'd be scared shitless. Should we start calling FPS games horror now? Well, why not? It'd be scary in real life!
And exactly, Deadite. The atmosphere is what made you fear whatever was lurking in its shadows. You didn't even have to see it yet to feel scared. That's horror right there. Now throw that same creature in the middle of a barren desert in broad daylight, and is it going to have the same effect? Creatures are nothing without atmosphere. You can create horror without creatures; you can't create horror without atmosphere.
You know, Theresia for DS has no enemies at all. The atmosphere and environment itself is the danger, and it's the creepiest horror game I've come across in years. There is one scene in particular, that just through its use of music and the main protagonist's realization of despair, that it actually got my heart pounding.
And if you can seriously sit here and tell me with a straight face that RE5 is a horror game, then it's time to take off the training wheels, kids. RE has always had action elements, and that, as well as the creatures, are important too. But it's always been a horror franchise. RE5 was just an action game. That doesn't mean it's a bad game. I liked it. It was just missing the horror, and horror should be just as important in an RE game as the action.
And lastly, I disagree that RE0 and Outbreak were the only games with great atmosphere. REmake, in particular, springs to mind. The original also had great atmosphere for its day. And how can you say RE4 sucks in every way possible if you like RE5? They play pretty much exactly the same. |
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:25 am
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:49 pm
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Canas Renvall Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:31 pm
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Thee Stranger FoxyAreku Thee Stranger Um, if you consider the conveyor belt zombies and reapers scares, I feel sorry for you. Atmosphere matters. RE5 had no creepy atmosphere. Nighttime or not.
The conveyer belt zombies WERE scary. I highly doubt you were expecting them to jump on you your first time.
And I highly doubt you were expecting reapers to be able to instant kill you in such a gruesome and painful looking way.
The creatures in a horror game matter a hell of a lot more then 'atmosphere'. Without them, what would we have? A bunch of decrepit hallways where nothing happens. No RE game has ever had amazing atmosphere aside from Zero and a little bit in Outbreak, yet they are still scary games. neutral
'cept four of course, that game still sucks in every way possible. stare Butthurt much? No, I wasn't expecting the conveyor belt zombies to pop up at first. That doesn't mean they were scary. It's simply a BOO! moment. Maybe that made you jump, but that's not what I consider horror. A random, unexpected explosion in an action game could make someone jump. And no, I'm not psychic, so I wasn't aware that the Reaper would instantly kill me at first. Again, that doesn't mean they were scary. I was just sure to keep my distance when handling them. There are many different elements that are intrinsic to a horror game/movie/whatever. Use of lighting, camera angles, subtlety, pacing, timing, tension, music: atmosphere. It's a huge part of it. Probably the most vital and important. You know, the movie Starship Troopers has plenty of grotesque creatures running around, and I'm sure if I saw something like that in broad daylight in real life, I'd certainly s**t myself. But we're not talking about real life here, and did I find those creatures in Starship Troopers scary? Hell no. Because it was a ******** action movie. There was a crowd of commandos with BFGs filling them full of bullets the whole time in broad daylight. Now if you took some of those creatures and stuck them in a dark, blood splattered corner somewhere in something like a Silent Hill game, then they might induce some fright. If you threw me into a FPS game in real life, where people were pointing and shooting live M16 rounds at me, I'd be scared shitless. Should we start calling FPS games horror now? Well, why not? It'd be scary in real life! And exactly, Deadite. The atmosphere is what made you fear whatever was lurking in its shadows. You didn't even have to see it yet to feel scared. That's horror right there. Now throw that same creature in the middle of a barren desert in broad daylight, and is it going to have the same effect? Creatures are nothing without atmosphere. You can create horror without creatures; you can't create horror without atmosphere. You know, Theresia for DS has no enemies at all. The atmosphere and environment itself is the danger, and it's the creepiest horror game I've come across in years. There is one scene in particular, that just through its use of music and the main protagonist's realization of despair, that it actually got my heart pounding. And if you can seriously sit here and tell me with a straight face that RE5 is a horror game, then it's time to take off the training wheels, kids. RE has always had action elements, and that, as well as the creatures, are important too. But it's always been a horror franchise. RE5 was just an action game. That doesn't mean it's a bad game. I liked it. It was just missing the horror, and horror should be just as important in an RE game as the action. And lastly, I disagree that RE0 and Outbreak were the only games with great atmosphere. REmake, in particular, springs to mind. The original also had great atmosphere for its day. And how can you say RE4 sucks in every way possible if you like RE5? They play pretty much exactly the same.
You aren't very nice are you? =/
Atmosphere isn't important, it may be to you, for some reason, but it isn't to me. It means nothing, a creepy looking room can't get you killed. Sure it may help, but as stated if there is nothing there, then there is nothing to fear.
And really, if you don't find 'boo' scares scary, the hell do you find scary? RE has always been about "Boo" scares and nothing else, like RE1's dog hallway. I've certainly never found any other type of fear in any of the games. Silent Hill and Fatal Frame are much better in actually inducing fear.
I never said RE5 was a horror game either cause it obviously isn't, but even if it didn't scare you, you can't sit here and say Capcom didn't try to make it scary. Heck, the entire motto of the game is "Fear you can't forget". I never said reapers and the conveyer belt zombies were nightmare-inducing or anything, but it's obvious that they tried to make them scary.
Seriously, I just don't get it, how did the remake have any atmosphere? I was able to blaze through that game and I never felt frightened because of how creepy the room I was in looked (because none of them looked creepy at all), it was all the zombies and creatures, and probably the creepiest creature in the series, Lisa Trevor. She freaked me out, cause she is actually lethal to you. Sure there were tiny things like those footprints that vanish under the bed, but those were merely interesting and not fear inducing in the least.
And you are talking about a scary game for DS with no enemies? That sounds incredibly laughable, will have to rent it sometime or something.
I can use Silent Hill 2 as an example, I just thought of this. When I was younger I couldn't even play that game without someone there to watch me. Why? Because Pyramid Head creeped me out. Pyramid head. A creature. If he hadn't been in the game, it would of been a cakewalk to me, because nothing in that game actually scared me at all, aside from one or two minor things. All the atmosphere ever did was make me feel kinda tense, I never felt scared from it though, even in that game, the game with the best atmosphere out of any game in existence.
And RE4 is inferior to RE5 in every way, there's no co-op in 4, the melee isn't any good, the weapons are worse, the level design is plain random and stupid, it's not scary at all, the enemies are terrible and just plain ugly looking, story sucks, 5 doesn't have a useless female character who can do nothing but duck and hide, so on and so on....that's how I can like 5 better.
Vankala I agree with stranger. Atmosphere > creatures. Those "BOO! moments" can't be considered horror cuz after that first time it happens, you know its there now and it doesn't scare you or even make you jump anymore. In a horror game, even if you know that there's monster or creature around the corner the lighting, music (or lack thereof as Notte pointed out), sound effects, etc. build up that tension and that creepiness.
Makes no sense. Atmosphere never has, and never will be creepy. It builds up tension, but only on your first playthrough, for example I can play through any horror game I've beaten and I won't get scared at all, unless I've forgotten an enemy location or something.
Maybe I'm just an oddball. razz |
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:10 pm
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:51 pm
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The Not So Evil Deadite Actually Areku, you're not an oddball. But be prepared. When engaging in a debate with Thee Stranger, you better have your guns fully loaded. But that's the exact reason I joined this particularly exciting debate. I am very, very well informed on the subject at hand, as will be apparent in my long a** response I shall post tomorrow. One thing though, Areku. REmake, even though I'm not a big fan of it, was probably the MOST atmospheric in the series, so prepare to get a butthurt retort for that statement you made ha ha.
haha. I can take it. cool
Still don't get what is so great about REmake's background though, none of it was creepy. Only small interesting tidbits that gave me encouragement to explore, like that bed I mentioned.
The only RE game that was even slightly creepy atmosphere-wise was zero, like the train with the bottles rolling around on tables and such, and the water that you just knew a lurker was hiding in at the end of the game...
And even then, I don't think 'creepy' is the right word for it.
Oh yeah, deadite, this is completely random and offtopic, but your signature grosses me out, yet intrigues and makes me laugh at the same time.
smile |
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:40 am
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I'll just go down through in points.
No, generally a creepy room can't get you killed (Theresia being the only exception I can think of). But as I already pointed out in my last post, atmosphere isn't just the environment, which you seem to be thinking. Environment is only a part of it. In a horror game, all you have to do is establish a threat. It doesn't really matter what that threat is. There's a threat in just about any kind of video game you play. Just because there's a threat doesn't mean that threat is scary.
Yes, RE has always had the cheap BOO! scares. The difference is it was executed a lot better in the past. Why? Because it had atmosphere to back it. In the case of the dogs in RE1, you're walking down a quiet, narrow hallway, and then there's a loud crash as the zombie dogs bust through, accompanied by some tense music to get your heart racing. And you just saw some of those same dogs tear up your buddy in the beginning of the game, and you don't have any health, or very many bullets for that matter. Now let's look at your conveyor belt zombies in contrast. You're walking along, one just pops up, and you struggle with it a little bit. No music or anything, or even any real sense of danger, seeing as they can't even damage you in the first place. Let's look at Mr. X from RE2. You turn on that security camera, and he slowly plods forth towards it and bashes the thing, and then you're left watching static. You know he's right around the corner, but you can't see him anymore. You're in a narrow hallway, the other way is a dead end, and there's really no way to avoid confrontation. Now let's look at the Reapers. You're already in the middle of a ******** firefight, complete with duck-and-cover tactics straight out of an action game, and then one of those things pop up. It's just another enemy among the crowd. It may be able to kill you in one hit, but they're fairly easy to put down if you create some distance, and you have a friend backing you up.
Well, there ya go. My point is proven, I rest my case. RE5 isn't a horror game. Know why? No atmosphere. It plays like an action game, it's paced like an action game, etc. And if Capcom tried to make it scary, they certainly didn't do a good job. It seems more to me like they tried to put an emphasis on the action, which is exactly what they did. A ******** tagline means nothing.
How did REmake have atmosphere? In its environment, music, pacing, etc.
You found Pyramid Head scary. I find that incredibly laughable.
So Pyramid Head creeped you out. Why is that, exactly? Say you never saw Pyramid Head before, and take him out of the context of the game. What is he? A guy with a ******** pyramid-shaped thing on his head. Terrifying. Stick him in RE5, and basically turn him into the Executioner. Does he still creep you out?
I hate to break this to you, but with the exception of the graphics and the more true-to-form storyline, RE5 is inferior to RE4. And I believe your words were, "sucks in every way possible". Well, RE4 created the same gameplay that RE5 employs. RE4 influenced the entire gaming industry (Gears of War, Dead Space, MGS4, etc.). The level design was way better. The enemies are the Las Plagas, which do suck, just like they do in RE5. The only thing that really did suck about RE4 was its storyline, and how it killed Umbrella and completely ******** the continuity of the series. And it was a little too action-heavy for an RE game, in my opinion. But one thing I can say for RE4 is that it was a horror game. More of a horror game than RE5 will ever be.
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:46 pm
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