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 Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:49 pm
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SaintChaos Levis Pennae What I hear a lot is "..under God,..". Since it's in our pledge of allegiance we we must all believe in God. O shut up, it was not in the original pledge, it was added during the Cold War to spite the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union banned all forms of religion as part of communism. I believe it was during the fifties that this was added, but during that era we were all creepy good and super patriotic. So because of this we didn't complain at all about this. about the "under god" debate, i saw on a show one time just about that very subject and what they were stressing was, it doesnt say under exactly which "god". it could be any particular god pertaining to any culture. so in reality its like its saying "under our belief". whether this is actually true or not i don't really care because money is money after all. i don't care what it says or who's face is on it as long as it pays the bills. but they made an interesting point at the same time. don't you think?
Actually, I don't think they did. First off, just having anything religious on your money is a definite sign that we worship money, if we didn't then it wouldn't be on bills and coins. Second, look at the way god is spelled in text books. It's spelled with a capital G, and when with a capital G it is referring to the god named God. Not only that, but I have no god at all, so why should I have to pledge my allegiance to someone I don't believe in? That would be like telling a person to do everything that someone in another room is telling them to. It doesn't even matter who they were referring to anyways, because it is a violation of the separation of Church and State. I mean come on, how would you feel if when in court, they made you swear on the religious scripture of a religion you don't believe in? Oh wait. |
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Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:48 pm
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Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:59 pm
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CaprinaePsi SaintChaos Levis Pennae What I hear a lot is "..under God,..". Since it's in our pledge of allegiance we we must all believe in God. O shut up, it was not in the original pledge, it was added during the Cold War to spite the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union banned all forms of religion as part of communism. I believe it was during the fifties that this was added, but during that era we were all creepy good and super patriotic. So because of this we didn't complain at all about this. about the "under god" debate, i saw on a show one time just about that very subject and what they were stressing was, it doesnt say under exactly which "god". it could be any particular god pertaining to any culture. so in reality its like its saying "under our belief". whether this is actually true or not i don't really care because money is money after all. i don't care what it says or who's face is on it as long as it pays the bills. but they made an interesting point at the same time. don't you think? Actually, I don't think they did. First off, just having anything religious on your money is a definite sign that we worship money, if we didn't then it wouldn't be on bills and coins. Second, look at the way god is spelled in text books. It's spelled with a capital G, and when with a capital G it is referring to the god named God. Not only that, but I have no god at all, so why should I have to pledge my allegiance to someone I don't believe in? That would be like telling a person to do everything that someone in another room is telling them to. It doesn't even matter who they were referring to anyways, because it is a violation of the separation of Church and State. I mean come on, how would you feel if when in court, they made you swear on the religious scripture of a religion you don't believe in? Oh wait.
honestly i don't believe in that pledge of allegiance thing at all. neither do i believe in people being forced to "pledge" allegiance to anything they don't want to let alone, under a God they don't believe in. so i'm right there with yah. it should all be by choice. |
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:33 am
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Dathu They were also chauvinists, racists, and pro-slavery.
Here's to the founding fathers!!! May their out-dated ways of thinking be rivived in the new age!!! stare
The founding fathers did indeed have flaws. And they were indeed, in some respects, bigots. However, that doesn't subtract from their glory.
Think about it: There were many atrocities in progress at that time. The founding fathers grew up in an era where those things had not yet been deemed wrong. They couldn't just wave a magic wand and end all of those horrible things; humankind is incapable of doing that. And yet even then, they were able to identify some of the problems, and in the end, they paved the way for those atrocities to eventually be exterminated.
Would slavery still be acceptable had the United States not outlawed it? That's up for debate. Would women still be unequal to men had the United States not pushed for that to end? That's up for debate. Would racism still be acceptable had the United States not undergone a huge social change? Again, that's up for debate.
The founding fathers were certainly not perfect, and they may have been bigots themselves, but intentionally or not, they were responsible for its eventual end. |
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:59 pm
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:14 am
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Cirosan Dathu They were also chauvinists, racists, and pro-slavery.
Here's to the founding fathers!!! May their out-dated ways of thinking be rivived in the new age!!! stare The founding fathers did indeed have flaws. And they were indeed, in some respects, bigots. However, that doesn't subtract from their glory. Think about it: There were many atrocities in progress at that time. The founding fathers grew up in an era where those things had not yet been deemed wrong. They couldn't just wave a magic wand and end all of those horrible things; humankind is incapable of doing that. And yet even then, they were able to identify some of the problems, and in the end, they paved the way for those atrocities to eventually be exterminated. Would slavery still be acceptable had the United States not outlawed it? That's up for debate. Would women still be unequal to men had the United States not pushed for that to end? That's up for debate. Would racism still be acceptable had the United States not undergone a huge social change? Again, that's up for debate. The founding fathers were certainly not perfect, and they may have been bigots themselves, but intentionally or not, they were responsible for its eventual end.
I totally agree. My point was just that if we're going to reinstate one out-dated way of thinking, then why not all. Saying "they were Christian so we should be" leads to all the other morals and pilosophies needing to be emulated. And ******** that. |
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:48 pm
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GreenMagi Meirelle "...so we're a Christian nation!" Um... STFU and GTFO. Our founding fathers were Deists, b***h. I'm just sick of hearing that excuse, is all. Discuss. What excuses do you hear that are just so obviously false or dumb that you can't help but let them grate on your nerves? I teach history. I run into this problem with students, teachers, and parents. It makes me sick. But after a few hundred times I've got the proper response down, and I conclude with a request for them to prove me wrong. My favorite president was T. Jefferson; a Man quite hateful of religion's evils. He is nearly impossible to misinterpret, as he wrote with great venom whenever religion was the theme. And he was the greatest of the founders, as his writings were the bases for which the United States is founded. It makes me sick that we could not have such a powerful and noble president again in this hazardous climate, a corrupt theocrazy. Sinisterly, GreenMagi
I like how the Christians like to forget that such Americans as Thomas Paine,
Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin weren't exactly friendly to their Christian idea for America. |
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Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:01 am
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Meirelle I like how the Christians like to forget that such Americans as Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin weren't exactly friendly to their Christian idea for America.
I don't like it. It tastes like crap. But I’ve found that it never stops them from saying they were Christians. It nearly stops my heart when I hear it about Thomas Jefferson, and I want to spit when they start talking about Franklin being a Christian. I’m sure they have doubts even as they say it, but most people aren’t willing to go through the pains of arguing with them. I do, but it’s always a labor.
I hate it when they say, “can you prove that.” And it’s never a question, but a defense. I always respond with, ‘yeah, I always carry every historical source for every subject around with me. Don’t you?’ That’s why one of my majors was history, so that I could be the reference. I suggest they consider me a source document, and to trust my word until they are able to find counter evidence. But since I’m an Atheist, they know I’m only trying to twist historical facts in order to rob them of their faithful souls. Makes me want to smack some sense into them…loosen up the stiffness between their ears.
Anyway, yeah, I hate rewrites of history. People that believe in a “Young Earth” shouldn’t even be allowed to breed, much less argue with me about History. I should carry little cards with my records on it, to show it to faith-heads; with a challenge that if they can’t trump my credentials, then they need to listen carefully and take notes. But no! “Beware worldly knowledge” is a warning from their holey babble, and they love the mind numbing feeling that the stupidest maggot can be the most ‘intelligent’ if they only accept a retarded myth on unyielding faith. They provoke me so much with their willing ignorance and infantile stubbornness. Sure, I’m stubborn too, as we all are to one degree or another. But we’re not stupid about it. Seriously, if Jesus Christ “popped” into reality before me, I’d repent so fast time would travel backwards for a second. We’re Atheists/Agnostics because the probability of a supernatural is so incredibly ludicrous. But then, I guess all this counter evidence is just a trick of the Devil….Ahhhhhhharg! @$#!% F*$#@!!!!
Whew…I feel better after that rant…
Yeah. Faith-Heads P!$$ me off. |
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Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:07 pm
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GreenMagi Meirelle I like how the Christians like to forget that such Americans as Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin weren't exactly friendly to their Christian idea for America. I don't like it. It tastes like crap. But I’ve found that it never stops them from saying they were Christians. It nearly stops my heart when I hear it about Thomas Jefferson, and I want to spit when they start talking about Franklin being a Christian. I’m sure they have doubts even as they say it, but most people aren’t willing to go through the pains of arguing with them. I do, but it’s always a labor. I hate it when they say, “can you prove that.” And it’s never a question, but a defense. I always respond with, ‘yeah, I always carry every historical source for every subject around with me. Don’t you?’ That’s why one of my majors was history, so that I could be the reference. I suggest they consider me a source document, and to trust my word until they are able to find counter evidence. But since I’m an Atheist, they know I’m only trying to twist historical facts in order to rob them of their faithful souls. Makes me want to smack some sense into them…loosen up the stiffness between their ears. Anyway, yeah, I hate rewrites of history. People that believe in a “Young Earth” shouldn’t even be allowed to breed, much less argue with me about History. I should carry little cards with my records on it, to show it to faith-heads; with a challenge that if they can’t trump my credentials, then they need to listen carefully and take notes. But no! “Beware worldly knowledge” is a warning from their holey babble, and they love the mind numbing feeling that the stupidest maggot can be the most ‘intelligent’ if they only accept a retarded myth on unyielding faith. They provoke me so much with their willing ignorance and infantile stubbornness. Sure, I’m stubborn too, as we all are to one degree or another. But we’re not stupid about it. Seriously, if Jesus Christ “popped” into reality before me, I’d repent so fast time would travel backwards for a second. We’re Atheists/Agnostics because the probability of a supernatural is so incredibly ludicrous. But then, I guess all this counter evidence is just a trick of the Devil….Ahhhhhhharg! @$#!% F*$#@!!!! Whew…I feel better after that rant… Yeah. Faith-Heads P!$$ me off.
Seeing how I rarely paid attention in history classes let alone could I stay awake, it wouldn't be much say from me on the matter anyway xD I hate history classes and find them rather boring. I'm not very patriotic and no offense to our forefathers, but I could really care less at least about the whole grand scheme of things. |
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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:48 am
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SaintChaos Seeing how I rarely paid attention in history classes let alone could I stay awake, it wouldn't be much say from me on the matter anyway xD I hate history classes and find them rather boring. I'm not very patriotic and no offense to our forefathers, but I could really care less at least about the whole grand scheme of things.
That's because you had really stupid history teachers that should have done something else with their lives. There's far too many Coaches that teach history because they can't handle anything else too mentally challenging. They make me sick. Sure, I'd make a horrible footsketball coach, but I teach an exciting class. There’s lots of stuff that in history that’s very controversial, exciting, and fun. The problem is teachers that teach strictly/mostly out of text books.
But then again, that’s my problem. I get in trouble for teaching the facts, when all the other numbskulls are teaching propaganda history, and tiptoeing over aspects of history that are politically incorrect. It’s impossible to learn from history if the best parts are omitted. Seriously, I couldn’t even tell my students about anything counter to a fundamentalist agenda…which is a lot of juicy information.
Anyway, the education system is screwed up. They want to teach kids what to think instead of how to think. And it is especially nasty in the south. |
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:03 am
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:49 am
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:51 pm
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:54 pm
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