So I was teaching Christianity to this girl, and...

[Theophrastus]

TSW, I'd think it's more right to say that some people are followers (or maybe that most people are followers) but I don't accept for a minute that all people are followers.

Look at the wily mountain men. XD  

[Tenth Speed Writer]

Theophrastus

TSW, I'd think it's more right to say that some people are followers (or maybe that most people are followers) but I don't accept for a minute that all people are followers.

Look at the wily mountain men. XD

xD
Well, I didn't say all, I said most. It's just a tendency of human nature.

Levis: Although that's exactly what he said, I don't believe it's what he means. You have to remember what some folks are fed, that the above is an absolute. His meaning was likely "Those who do good things but don't actually care about life and why they're doing it."

Not saying he's innocent of ignorance, though. But then, who is?  

[reverie0312]

Kurai Keiro

Fairyfly

Levis Pennae

In my opinion personal beliefs should stand above all else. I live in a moderately religious house right now. But before, I lived in the south, conservative religious capital east of the Mississippi. Now growing up this environment I understand that standing up at the dinner table and screaming out "This is all sh--, I'm an ATHEIST!!" isn't exactly the right thing to do. What I would do in your situation is slowly faze yourself out of the religious circle your family has created. Ask to be removed from the church mentor program at your church, citing other legitimate reason. Remember the key to this is to use as little lying as possible. I do this all the time when I find myself in hyper religious situations, or any other situations like that. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING HERE IS THAT YOUR FRIEND.

What legitimate excuse do you recommend? I've already tried all of the ones I can think of. "I'm too busy" is true but insufficient -- my parents said that if I was really too busy, I could quit my extracurriculars and stop hanging out with my friends. "I don't feel qualified" would raise a helluva lot of eyebrows and put me under some intense scrutiny, because, beleiver or not, I have by far the best grasp on theology of any of the youth participating in the program, and all the adults involved know that. "I hate teaching/talking in front of people" would be laughed at, because I'm on the debate team and take part in social activism that requires both teaching and talking in front of people. "I don't want to" is true but gets results only in sermons about how I should devote more of my time to God.

Or you could claim that teaching these, poor, innocent kids based on your liberal Christian views is a bad, bad thing. Very subtly, though.

Wh00t, fellow debater. smile What kind of debate do you do? (I do policy/CX, so if yours is somewhat like that, just increase the time you spend practicing, and claim you need more time to improve your skills.)

Nah, they're okay with me preaching liberalism. My youth leader's a flaming liberal anyways.

Another debater? Kick a**! I do policy, too. I already went to 7 weeks of camp, which not only rocked, it also got me out of 7 weeks of church and Sunday school. Unfortunately, while there is always something to work on, my parents won't accept that as an excuse either. Speaking on excuses, I ought to be recutting my AIDS file instead of posting on Gaia... XD  

[Kurai Keiro]

Fairyfly

Kurai Keiro

Fairyfly

Levis Pennae

In my opinion personal beliefs should stand above all else. I live in a moderately religious house right now. But before, I lived in the south, conservative religious capital east of the Mississippi. Now growing up this environment I understand that standing up at the dinner table and screaming out "This is all sh--, I'm an ATHEIST!!" isn't exactly the right thing to do. What I would do in your situation is slowly faze yourself out of the religious circle your family has created. Ask to be removed from the church mentor program at your church, citing other legitimate reason. Remember the key to this is to use as little lying as possible. I do this all the time when I find myself in hyper religious situations, or any other situations like that. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING HERE IS THAT YOUR FRIEND.

What legitimate excuse do you recommend? I've already tried all of the ones I can think of. "I'm too busy" is true but insufficient -- my parents said that if I was really too busy, I could quit my extracurriculars and stop hanging out with my friends. "I don't feel qualified" would raise a helluva lot of eyebrows and put me under some intense scrutiny, because, beleiver or not, I have by far the best grasp on theology of any of the youth participating in the program, and all the adults involved know that. "I hate teaching/talking in front of people" would be laughed at, because I'm on the debate team and take part in social activism that requires both teaching and talking in front of people. "I don't want to" is true but gets results only in sermons about how I should devote more of my time to God.

Or you could claim that teaching these, poor, innocent kids based on your liberal Christian views is a bad, bad thing. Very subtly, though.

Wh00t, fellow debater. smile What kind of debate do you do? (I do policy/CX, so if yours is somewhat like that, just increase the time you spend practicing, and claim you need more time to improve your skills.)

Nah, they're okay with me preaching liberalism. My youth leader's a flaming liberal anyways.

Another debater? Kick a**! I do policy, too. I already went to 7 weeks of camp, which not only rocked, it also got me out of 7 weeks of church and Sunday school. Unfortunately, while there is always something to work on, my parents won't accept that as an excuse either. Speaking on excuses, I ought to be recutting my AIDS file instead of posting on Gaia... XD

Awesome! Which camp did you go to? biggrin

My partner is this very ultra-conservative dude, and we're having problems. XD I wanted to run Landmines, but he said it was too liberal...

Well, then, I'm not sure what you should do. >.<;; You could try to ease your mind by just not focusing on god when you teach, but rather on tolerance (even though the Bible doesn't teach much of it) and caring about others... And about spreading the word that god says not to judge other people. *feels very lame for saying it* XD

Maybe you could take up a another sport or hobby?  

[SkeletonPhoenix]

You could lie(not really segesting it.) Because technically you are about your religion. Maybe say your agnostic your parents if perdictable as I think might chalk it up to a teenage phase or you'll get more sermons which you bluntly say " Forcing me to go to sermons might just makev it worse" but more subtly. Also you could say after the first or second time that it is pulling you more towords atheism.

Also good luck because if I was you I would have gone crazy.  

[reverie0312]

Kurai Keiro

Fairyfly

Kurai Keiro

Fairyfly

Levis Pennae

In my opinion personal beliefs should stand above all else. I live in a moderately religious house right now. But before, I lived in the south, conservative religious capital east of the Mississippi. Now growing up this environment I understand that standing up at the dinner table and screaming out "This is all sh--, I'm an ATHEIST!!" isn't exactly the right thing to do. What I would do in your situation is slowly faze yourself out of the religious circle your family has created. Ask to be removed from the church mentor program at your church, citing other legitimate reason. Remember the key to this is to use as little lying as possible. I do this all the time when I find myself in hyper religious situations, or any other situations like that. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING HERE IS THAT YOUR FRIEND.

What legitimate excuse do you recommend? I've already tried all of the ones I can think of. "I'm too busy" is true but insufficient -- my parents said that if I was really too busy, I could quit my extracurriculars and stop hanging out with my friends. "I don't feel qualified" would raise a helluva lot of eyebrows and put me under some intense scrutiny, because, beleiver or not, I have by far the best grasp on theology of any of the youth participating in the program, and all the adults involved know that. "I hate teaching/talking in front of people" would be laughed at, because I'm on the debate team and take part in social activism that requires both teaching and talking in front of people. "I don't want to" is true but gets results only in sermons about how I should devote more of my time to God.

Or you could claim that teaching these, poor, innocent kids based on your liberal Christian views is a bad, bad thing. Very subtly, though.

Wh00t, fellow debater. smile What kind of debate do you do? (I do policy/CX, so if yours is somewhat like that, just increase the time you spend practicing, and claim you need more time to improve your skills.)

Nah, they're okay with me preaching liberalism. My youth leader's a flaming liberal anyways.

Another debater? Kick a**! I do policy, too. I already went to 7 weeks of camp, which not only rocked, it also got me out of 7 weeks of church and Sunday school. Unfortunately, while there is always something to work on, my parents won't accept that as an excuse either. Speaking on excuses, I ought to be recutting my AIDS file instead of posting on Gaia... XD

Awesome! Which camp did you go to? biggrin

My partner is this very ultra-conservative dude, and we're having problems. XD I wanted to run Landmines, but he said it was too liberal...

Well, then, I'm not sure what you should do. >.<;; You could try to ease your mind by just not focusing on god when you teach, but rather on tolerance (even though the Bible doesn't teach much of it) and caring about others... And about spreading the word that god says not to judge other people. *feels very lame for saying it* XD

Maybe you could take up a another sport or hobby?

Michigan 7 Week Seniors, bby. cool

I looove my debate partner. She's one of my best friends, and we are totally on the same political level. I'm a bit more kritik-y than she is, though. Before her, though, I debated with a girl who hated me (although we agreed politically after my freshman year de-conversion and political awakening). We were partners for two and a half years because we did well together, but we finally broke up when she told me she wouldn't go to nationals even if we qualified (I ended up going with my current partner instead).

I'll probably just have to settle for trying to focus on tolerance and values that are solid both religiously and secularly. Which is fine, I guess.  

[AnonymouZ]

Tenth Speed Writer

Anon:
I disagree.

You'd be surprised how incapable many folks are of embracing some semblance of common sense without something they perceive as beyond them to tell them to do so.


A good friend of mine, a very devout Christian, has admitted to me almost proudly that if he didn't think God existed, he'd drink and screw until he couldn't see straight. And he isn't a half-bad person at heart.

Humans are just followers by nature. The mind is like lightening, it tends to go down the path of least resistance. If given a choice between scrutinizing every move you make for the rest of your life, or never having to consider your decisions past whether they agree with what Brother Reverend talked about last Sunday, then at heart, most would take the latter.

Now now, just because you have the mindset of a follower doesn't mean everyone has it. And no, not even "most" of them have it in their nature to do it. They have to be TAUGHT how to do it, in order to be a follower, but we could also argue what exactly is a follower and it seems kinda pointless.
Believers, now, that's almost an entirely different subject, but not really. The same principle applies. They have to be taught about this god theory, and if it fits into their thought bubble, they'll accept it. IF. For both of them.

And your friend is just a perfect example of someone with no* morals that has a fear of god. (unknown would've sound better, right?) Fear is a good enough reason to be good. It works the same on kids that are spanked. It sometimes isn't the fact that they DON'T want to make their brother cry, it's just that they know mom will beat the s**t out of them if they do.


*Does having sex and drinking mean that you have no morals? That's a horrible example dude. I mean, besides the fact that it may be just a bad IDEA, doing all that isn't bad. Maybe stupid, if he gets DUIs or an STD, but having no morals just because he'd like to ********? A lot? C'mon.

Back to the topic... (that seems to have reached a solution already, but don't matter to me).
I wanna say what i really wanted to say from the beginning.

"DUDE, just tell them you're an atheist STRAIGHT up. See how they handle it. You keep up with your school activities and good grades, but besides sermons or a trip to a church counselor you should be alright. They might make you go to church, but hey, (i bet) you were already doing that, so there's no problem there, is there? I mean, what could they really say or do to their kid that has no "problems" other than not believing? I mean, you wouldn't have to do that teaching of stuff that you don't really agree with, and you should still be able to do all that other stuff you like. But as i said before... i don't really see something BAD happening to you... especially since you happen to make your "liberal" tendencies known already. (right? that is what i read before, right?)

By the way, when you do come out, soon or not, you better have NO conversations with them for the first months about the religion/god subject. Maybe nod every now and then, but when confronted with some serious questions, always say "I don't know" a lot. It's better to let them think you're just doubting your faith at the beginning than letting them know you ARE down the atheist road to imaginary hell.  

[Levis Pennae]

My mom doesn't approve of my atheism because she's afraid of me going to he--. But she says "She'll believe enough for both of us,even if you don't believe". I don't think they'll let you be an atheist, especially since they're super Christians. What religion is your family? 'Cause if it's a 'born again' type Christian religion, you won't have any chance of exceptance. If it's catholicism you'll have a chance if your family is really, really nice.  

[Kurai Keiro]

Fairyfly

Kurai Keiro

Fairyfly

Kurai Keiro

Fairyfly

Levis Pennae

In my opinion personal beliefs should stand above all else. I live in a moderately religious house right now. But before, I lived in the south, conservative religious capital east of the Mississippi. Now growing up this environment I understand that standing up at the dinner table and screaming out "This is all sh--, I'm an ATHEIST!!" isn't exactly the right thing to do. What I would do in your situation is slowly faze yourself out of the religious circle your family has created. Ask to be removed from the church mentor program at your church, citing other legitimate reason. Remember the key to this is to use as little lying as possible. I do this all the time when I find myself in hyper religious situations, or any other situations like that. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING HERE IS THAT YOUR FRIEND.

What legitimate excuse do you recommend? I've already tried all of the ones I can think of. "I'm too busy" is true but insufficient -- my parents said that if I was really too busy, I could quit my extracurriculars and stop hanging out with my friends. "I don't feel qualified" would raise a helluva lot of eyebrows and put me under some intense scrutiny, because, beleiver or not, I have by far the best grasp on theology of any of the youth participating in the program, and all the adults involved know that. "I hate teaching/talking in front of people" would be laughed at, because I'm on the debate team and take part in social activism that requires both teaching and talking in front of people. "I don't want to" is true but gets results only in sermons about how I should devote more of my time to God.

Or you could claim that teaching these, poor, innocent kids based on your liberal Christian views is a bad, bad thing. Very subtly, though.

Wh00t, fellow debater. smile What kind of debate do you do? (I do policy/CX, so if yours is somewhat like that, just increase the time you spend practicing, and claim you need more time to improve your skills.)

Nah, they're okay with me preaching liberalism. My youth leader's a flaming liberal anyways.

Another debater? Kick a**! I do policy, too. I already went to 7 weeks of camp, which not only rocked, it also got me out of 7 weeks of church and Sunday school. Unfortunately, while there is always something to work on, my parents won't accept that as an excuse either. Speaking on excuses, I ought to be recutting my AIDS file instead of posting on Gaia... XD

Awesome! Which camp did you go to? biggrin

My partner is this very ultra-conservative dude, and we're having problems. XD I wanted to run Landmines, but he said it was too liberal...

Well, then, I'm not sure what you should do. >.<;; You could try to ease your mind by just not focusing on god when you teach, but rather on tolerance (even though the Bible doesn't teach much of it) and caring about others... And about spreading the word that god says not to judge other people. *feels very lame for saying it* XD

Maybe you could take up a another sport or hobby?

Michigan 7 Week Seniors, bby. cool

I looove my debate partner. She's one of my best friends, and we are totally on the same political level. I'm a bit more kritik-y than she is, though. Before her, though, I debated with a girl who hated me (although we agreed politically after my freshman year de-conversion and political awakening). We were partners for two and a half years because we did well together, but we finally broke up when she told me she wouldn't go to nationals even if we qualified (I ended up going with my current partner instead).

I'll probably just have to settle for trying to focus on tolerance and values that are solid both religiously and secularly. Which is fine, I guess.

I was on your profile, and I saw that you were from Nebraska. biggrin There was a girl at UNTIF from Nebraska and I almost screamed "It's heeeerrrrr!"

I'm hoping that my partner loosens up a little. >.< But then again, I know in the back of my head it won't happen. Though he will let me run kritiks...

I hope all goes well with your teaching thing. smile Try to make the best out it, ne? And good luck at your debate tournaments!  

[Tenth Speed Writer]

You and I seem to have to different definitions of a moral life. I wouldn't typically include heavy drinking and promiscuous sex. There's better ways to spend your days, I guarantee you.


And, if you really believe most people don't need religion, then all I can say, is that you should prepare to be severely disappointed. If only we had that much in us to handle right now, the world would be so much better off.  

[reverie0312]

Kurai Keiro

Fairyfly

Kurai Keiro

Fairyfly

Kurai Keiro

Or you could claim that teaching these, poor, innocent kids based on your liberal Christian views is a bad, bad thing. Very subtly, though.

Wh00t, fellow debater. smile What kind of debate do you do? (I do policy/CX, so if yours is somewhat like that, just increase the time you spend practicing, and claim you need more time to improve your skills.)

Nah, they're okay with me preaching liberalism. My youth leader's a flaming liberal anyways.

Another debater? Kick a**! I do policy, too. I already went to 7 weeks of camp, which not only rocked, it also got me out of 7 weeks of church and Sunday school. Unfortunately, while there is always something to work on, my parents won't accept that as an excuse either. Speaking on excuses, I ought to be recutting my AIDS file instead of posting on Gaia... XD

Awesome! Which camp did you go to? biggrin

My partner is this very ultra-conservative dude, and we're having problems. XD I wanted to run Landmines, but he said it was too liberal...

Well, then, I'm not sure what you should do. >.<;; You could try to ease your mind by just not focusing on god when you teach, but rather on tolerance (even though the Bible doesn't teach much of it) and caring about others... And about spreading the word that god says not to judge other people. *feels very lame for saying it* XD

Maybe you could take up a another sport or hobby?

Michigan 7 Week Seniors, bby. cool

I looove my debate partner. She's one of my best friends, and we are totally on the same political level. I'm a bit more kritik-y than she is, though. Before her, though, I debated with a girl who hated me (although we agreed politically after my freshman year de-conversion and political awakening). We were partners for two and a half years because we did well together, but we finally broke up when she told me she wouldn't go to nationals even if we qualified (I ended up going with my current partner instead).

I'll probably just have to settle for trying to focus on tolerance and values that are solid both religiously and secularly. Which is fine, I guess.

I was on your profile, and I saw that you were from Nebraska. biggrin There was a girl at UNTIF from Nebraska and I almost screamed "It's heeeerrrrr!"

I'm hoping that my partner loosens up a little. >.< But then again, I know in the back of my head it won't happen. Though he will let me run kritiks...

I hope all goes well with your teaching thing. smile Try to make the best out it, ne? And good luck at your debate tournaments!

Was the girl's name Keri???  

[Kurai Keiro]

Fairyfly

Kurai Keiro

Fairyfly

Kurai Keiro

Fairyfly

Kurai Keiro

Or you could claim that teaching these, poor, innocent kids based on your liberal Christian views is a bad, bad thing. Very subtly, though.

Wh00t, fellow debater. smile What kind of debate do you do? (I do policy/CX, so if yours is somewhat like that, just increase the time you spend practicing, and claim you need more time to improve your skills.)

Nah, they're okay with me preaching liberalism. My youth leader's a flaming liberal anyways.

Another debater? Kick a**! I do policy, too. I already went to 7 weeks of camp, which not only rocked, it also got me out of 7 weeks of church and Sunday school. Unfortunately, while there is always something to work on, my parents won't accept that as an excuse either. Speaking on excuses, I ought to be recutting my AIDS file instead of posting on Gaia... XD

Awesome! Which camp did you go to? biggrin

My partner is this very ultra-conservative dude, and we're having problems. XD I wanted to run Landmines, but he said it was too liberal...

Well, then, I'm not sure what you should do. >.<;; You could try to ease your mind by just not focusing on god when you teach, but rather on tolerance (even though the Bible doesn't teach much of it) and caring about others... And about spreading the word that god says not to judge other people. *feels very lame for saying it* XD

Maybe you could take up a another sport or hobby?

Michigan 7 Week Seniors, bby. cool

I looove my debate partner. She's one of my best friends, and we are totally on the same political level. I'm a bit more kritik-y than she is, though. Before her, though, I debated with a girl who hated me (although we agreed politically after my freshman year de-conversion and political awakening). We were partners for two and a half years because we did well together, but we finally broke up when she told me she wouldn't go to nationals even if we qualified (I ended up going with my current partner instead).

I'll probably just have to settle for trying to focus on tolerance and values that are solid both religiously and secularly. Which is fine, I guess.

I was on your profile, and I saw that you were from Nebraska. biggrin There was a girl at UNTIF from Nebraska and I almost screamed "It's heeeerrrrr!"

I'm hoping that my partner loosens up a little. >.< But then again, I know in the back of my head it won't happen. Though he will let me run kritiks...

I hope all goes well with your teaching thing. smile Try to make the best out it, ne? And good luck at your debate tournaments!

Was the girl's name Keri???

Oh. My. Gosh. IT WAS!!! surprised Do you know her?!?  

[reverie0312]

Kurai Keiro

Fairyfly

Kurai Keiro

Fairyfly

Kurai Keiro

Awesome! Which camp did you go to? biggrin

My partner is this very ultra-conservative dude, and we're having problems. XD I wanted to run Landmines, but he said it was too liberal...

Well, then, I'm not sure what you should do. >.<;; You could try to ease your mind by just not focusing on god when you teach, but rather on tolerance (even though the Bible doesn't teach much of it) and caring about others... And about spreading the word that god says not to judge other people. *feels very lame for saying it* XD

Maybe you could take up a another sport or hobby?

Michigan 7 Week Seniors, bby. cool

I looove my debate partner. She's one of my best friends, and we are totally on the same political level. I'm a bit more kritik-y than she is, though. Before her, though, I debated with a girl who hated me (although we agreed politically after my freshman year de-conversion and political awakening). We were partners for two and a half years because we did well together, but we finally broke up when she told me she wouldn't go to nationals even if we qualified (I ended up going with my current partner instead).

I'll probably just have to settle for trying to focus on tolerance and values that are solid both religiously and secularly. Which is fine, I guess.

I was on your profile, and I saw that you were from Nebraska. biggrin There was a girl at UNTIF from Nebraska and I almost screamed "It's heeeerrrrr!"

I'm hoping that my partner loosens up a little. >.< But then again, I know in the back of my head it won't happen. Though he will let me run kritiks...

I hope all goes well with your teaching thing. smile Try to make the best out it, ne? And good luck at your debate tournaments!

Was the girl's name Keri???

Oh. My. Gosh. IT WAS!!! surprised Do you know her?!?

She's my debate partner!! I've known her since, like, middle school! What's your name??  

[Kurai Keiro]

Fairyfly

She's my debate partner!! I've known her since, like, middle school! What's your name??

*ish paranoid about names on the internet* xd Ask her - just tell her I'm the Asian girl from the Biopiracy lab.

I can't believe it! This is really weird. >.<;;

Side-note: Sorry for turning your thread into a chatroom. sweatdrop  

[Fuzzy Kittens]

Get a job. Tell your parents you want to earn money for college, since it's only a year away.