Disrespectful Atheists

[Daffodil the Destroyer]

I agree with Sanguvixen. Hard atheism does include belief that there is no god, but that doesn't make it a religion in itself. There are atheistic religions out there, but simple hard atheism alone isn't one. A religion implies that there are doctrines and such; a religion cannot be built upon one belief or nonbelief alone.  

[Liquid Robot]

I can see your point - and agree. A lot of atheists are being hypocritical when they sling back the whole 'Well you're just stupid if you believe in God' (etc) argument just to show how forceful they can be and 'if you undermine me you'll be weeded out in natural selection next time round'.
BUT - and there's a but - sometimes I feel it's justified. Not always, but sometimes. Sometimes it's like banging your head against an incredibly thick brick wall, and the only thing you feel like you can do is say, 'I'm tired of you, I think your God sounds nasty (note: he does, in the Old Testament), and can you just LISTEN for one moment?' Of course, not all religious people are a brick wall. That's just a handful. Like a handful of us that are hypocrites.  

[Augusten]

hagane danbira

Augusten

hagane danbira

Personally, I don't believe in the whole "don't shove it down our throats" bit...unless it's in anything paid for by the Government (than it's a question of Division of Church and State, Freedom of Religion, etc.).

I believe that if someone tries to convert you (to which they have the right, under Freedom of Speach), you are fully allowed to try to convert them. The harder they push, the harder you can push back.

The only major difference between a good Christian and a good Atheist is that a good Christian is supposed to "save" as many people as possible; a good Atheist is supposed to stand his/her ground, and fight off anyone who tries to save them.

But that's just my humble opinion.

I can see where it may be one thing to get into an argument with a religious person who did the antagonizing first. But putting an antagonizing banner up that targets all religious people?

I'm not one for fighting someone who tries to fight me, but I do think that if you have to push someone, push the person whose shoved you. Don't just flail around and knock everyone, if you see what I mean? ^^;

Dude, Atheism (at least the "hard/explicit" kind) IS a religion, founded on the principles of the lack of belief of God/belief in no God(s). Thus, an atheist is a religious person. A non-religious person is someone who doesn't give a flaming Belgium either way.

How is atheism a religion? There is no practice, and no belief. A set of principles isn't the only thing that makes up a religion. There is no organization. There isn't a church of atheism, or a guide book that all atheists go by.

Although some people will argue that it is a "belief in no god" as opposed to a "disbelief in god", they are the same thing, but worded differently.
I don't see how it could be considered a religion.

Lets look at some definitions of "religion":

Quote:

a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny;

Quote:

an institution to express belief in a divine power;

Quote:

A religion is a set of beliefs and practices generally held by a human community, involving adherence to codified beliefs and rituals and study of ancestral or cultural traditions,

Quote:

an organized system of faith and worship

There are atheistic religions, as has been stated. But atheism by itself? Not so much.  

[Augusten]

Apheliac

I can see your point - and agree. A lot of atheists are being hypocritical when they sling back the whole 'Well you're just stupid if you believe in God' (etc) argument just to show how forceful they can be and 'if you undermine me you'll be weeded out in natural selection next time round'.
BUT - and there's a but - sometimes I feel it's justified. Not always, but sometimes. Sometimes it's like banging your head against an incredibly thick brick wall, and the only thing you feel like you can do is say, 'I'm tired of you, I think your God sounds nasty (note: he does, in the Old Testament), and can you just LISTEN for one moment?' Of course, not all religious people are a brick wall. That's just a handful. Like a handful of us that are hypocrites.

I understand this. However, educating someone (as I believe you are describing) is different from maliciously berating someone for having a faith.
I don't deny that there are times when being rude to someone can be justified , but in these cases... sometimes I question it.  

[Augusten]

Life isn't a utopia because utopias don't exist.

What does a utopia have to do with this?~ n 3n

When an atheist is open and forthright about their feelings they are considered rude, patronizing, antagonizing and so on. I don't think is right. If a person wants to make a statement in their signature to show how they feel about what they don't believe in...who are you or I to judge them?

Religious folk can be just as antagonizing or rude. This doesn't change that atheists can be as well.


Maybe you should ask a person why the choose to have such a signature before automatically assuming that it is both patronizing or antagonizing. They just might be able to explain the reasoning behind it that would suggest otherwise.

It has nothing to do with the person who chose to use the banner. It was the way that I interpreted the banner itself.
Although I'll find it very hard to believe that the quotes in the banners were meant as pleasant and polite. rofl  

[Sanguvixen]

Augusten

Life isn't a utopia because utopias don't exist.

What does a utopia have to do with this?~ n 3n

When an atheist is open and forthright about their feelings they are considered rude, patronizing, antagonizing and so on. I don't think is right. If a person wants to make a statement in their signature to show how they feel about what they don't believe in...who are you or I to judge them?

Religious folk can be just as antagonizing or rude. This doesn't change that atheists can be as well.


Maybe you should ask a person why the choose to have such a signature before automatically assuming that it is both patronizing or antagonizing. They just might be able to explain the reasoning behind it that would suggest otherwise.

It has nothing to do with the person who chose to use the banner. It was the way that I interpreted the banner itself.
Although I'll find it very hard to believe that the quotes in the banners were meant as pleasant and polite. rofl

It means exactly what it says. In a perfect world, if atheists were to be perfectly polite and respectful, the other side would cease fire and do the same. But life isn't a utopia so that isn't going to happen.

If one side can do something than the other side should be able to as well. Expecting one to change when the other won't makes no sense to me. You set things up for one side to use the other as a doormat.

I used to be very nice and very polite always...and what happened? I got walked all over...by theists. So I'm not like that anymore...I'm still polite and still respectful but once someone crosses a certain line I cross that line back. It tells the other side they won't get away with using me as a door mat to wipe their feet on. I learned from JINYS that sometimes the only way to get a point across is to be really rude and patronizing. It's kind of sad things have to be that way...but that is how the internet is.

Seems to me you are just miffed about the banners although you say you arn't.  

[Augusten]

Sanguvixen

Augusten

Life isn't a utopia because utopias don't exist.

What does a utopia have to do with this?~ n 3n

When an atheist is open and forthright about their feelings they are considered rude, patronizing, antagonizing and so on. I don't think is right. If a person wants to make a statement in their signature to show how they feel about what they don't believe in...who are you or I to judge them?

Religious folk can be just as antagonizing or rude. This doesn't change that atheists can be as well.


Maybe you should ask a person why the choose to have such a signature before automatically assuming that it is both patronizing or antagonizing. They just might be able to explain the reasoning behind it that would suggest otherwise.

It has nothing to do with the person who chose to use the banner. It was the way that I interpreted the banner itself.
Although I'll find it very hard to believe that the quotes in the banners were meant as pleasant and polite. rofl

It means exactly what it says. In a perfect world, if atheists were to be perfectly polite and respectful, the other side would cease fire and do the same. But life isn't a utopia so that isn't going to happen.

If one side can do something than the other side should be able to as well. Expecting one to change when the other won't makes no sense to me. You set things up for one side to use the other as a doormat.

I used to be very nice and very polite always...and what happened? I got walked all over...by theists. So I'm not like that anymore...I'm still polite and still respectful but once someone crosses a certain line I cross that line back. It tells the other side they won't get away with using me as a door mat to wipe their feet on. I learned from JINYS that sometimes the only way to get a point across is to be really rude and patronizing. It's kind of sad things have to be that way...but that is how the internet is.

Seems to me you are just miffed about the banners although you say you arn't.

I just don't understand why a Utopia was brought up. This has nothing to do with a perfect world. I was never suggesting one. Or hoping for one.

I even said it wasn't necessary for anyone to feel that they must respect a religious person.
This is just how I see it. I've never been stepped on by a religious person, I believe that I can get my point across without being rude. I feel that most people can if they try.

I'm not "expecting" anyone to change for the opposite side. This just my opinion on the matter.
Perhaps we're having a misunderstanding?  

[Sanguvixen]

Augusten

Sanguvixen

Augusten

Life isn't a utopia because utopias don't exist.

What does a utopia have to do with this?~ n 3n

When an atheist is open and forthright about their feelings they are considered rude, patronizing, antagonizing and so on. I don't think is right. If a person wants to make a statement in their signature to show how they feel about what they don't believe in...who are you or I to judge them?

Religious folk can be just as antagonizing or rude. This doesn't change that atheists can be as well.


Maybe you should ask a person why the choose to have such a signature before automatically assuming that it is both patronizing or antagonizing. They just might be able to explain the reasoning behind it that would suggest otherwise.

It has nothing to do with the person who chose to use the banner. It was the way that I interpreted the banner itself.
Although I'll find it very hard to believe that the quotes in the banners were meant as pleasant and polite. rofl

It means exactly what it says. In a perfect world, if atheists were to be perfectly polite and respectful, the other side would cease fire and do the same. But life isn't a utopia so that isn't going to happen.

If one side can do something than the other side should be able to as well. Expecting one to change when the other won't makes no sense to me. You set things up for one side to use the other as a doormat.

I used to be very nice and very polite always...and what happened? I got walked all over...by theists. So I'm not like that anymore...I'm still polite and still respectful but once someone crosses a certain line I cross that line back. It tells the other side they won't get away with using me as a door mat to wipe their feet on. I learned from JINYS that sometimes the only way to get a point across is to be really rude and patronizing. It's kind of sad things have to be that way...but that is how the internet is.

Seems to me you are just miffed about the banners although you say you arn't.

I just don't understand why a Utopia was brought up. This has nothing to do with a perfect world. I was never suggesting one. Or hoping for one.

I even said it wasn't necessary for anyone to feel that they must respect a religious person.
This is just how I see it. I've never been stepped on by a religious person, I believe that I can get my point across without being rude. I feel that most people can if they try.

I'm not "expecting" anyone to change for the opposite side. This just my opinion on the matter.
Perhaps we're having a misunderstanding?

Life isn't a utopia is the first thing that popped into my head when reading your post. Utopia is a Greek word...it means "Does not exist"...

That is what I was thinking when you were talking about the banners and about theists and atheists being disrespectful. We live in a world that is not perfect. What we would want of ourself and each other really does not exist.

Anyway disregard it. It might have been a irrelevant...

I'm just offering my opinion on the topic that is all...it wasn't direct towards you as an attack or anything. I personally believe based on my time on Gaia and based on my real life experiences that being nice and polite isn't always going to cut it.

It is necessary to be able to be both ways. I have dealt with people recently...and when I was nice and polite in telling them to leave me alone they came back with a vengeance and got worse. They must have thought that because I was being so nice that they could walk all over me until they got me to convert and join their study.

Well the only way I could get them to leave me alone was to get a bit aggressive. Then they backed off....so maybe you have never dealt with people who try to step all over you but I have...on multiple occasions. To sit down and be nice and polite while being harassed left and right is the last thing you want to do because it empowers them, and they think they are getting you in a corner and that you will break.

Granted being aggressive or patronizing can empower them but it can also scare them and make them go away. That is real life stuff though. I'm going to stop talking now because I'm feeling rather aggressive right now...and I don't need to discuss things when in such a mood.  

[Daffodil the Destroyer]

Well said, Sanguvixen. I've been trying to get this point across for a couple of days now. XD  

[Sanguvixen]

Daffodil the Destroyer

Well said, Sanguvixen. I've been trying to get this point across for a couple of days now. XD

I've been attempting a similar thing all week in a certain thread in the ED.

Atheism by itself is not a religion.

Atheists do not require faith to be atheists.

Knowledge is not faith.

It does not take faith to follow science. It takes the ability to understand the scientific method and how to apply it correctly so no human error occurs to skewer results.

And...I hate people right now. I hate the ED too...I hate ignorant people. It's okay to lack knowledge...that is why you open a book and read it instead of judging it by it's cover...
stare  

[Daffodil the Destroyer]

A religion requires doctrines, practices, and often rituals - where are these things in hard atheism? Hard atheism is a single belief and nothing more - you can argue with us all day, but it's still not going to become a religion.