Vampire Development

[Mistaken Chaos]

How are those going to work? One per character...a limited amount? Or are there levels that all vampires can reach?  

[Chibi-Teddo]

*shrug* I didn't think about that. What do you think?  

[Master Strategist Kess]

So in the mythos I enjoy a great deal, first vampires come from Cain. He killed Abel, was sent to the land of Nod, and there learned his vampiric disciplines and was cursed for not asking for forgiveness. From him, all vampires come. As vampires get further away from his blood line, they get weaker, until the 14 and 15 generation which end up being pseudo-vampires, incapable of making more vampires.

Next, as for the sunlight, it has to hurt them. That and drinking blood make them what they are. As for holy artifacts, an interesting idea proposed is that it was not crosses, holy water, etc that hurt vampires, but the True Faith of the wielder. It was that the poor woman believed God would protect her or that the Hindu believed Krishna would protect him that would keep the vampire back, not the crosses or beads wielded. As for silver, one of the reasons it's explained to hurt werewolves is because it can harm spiritual entities, and werewolves have generally been very tied to the spiritual world. Vampires are completely cut from it, their soul ripped out of them. In the mythology I follow, they basically condemn their soul and become completely material entities. However, for other weaknesses, vampires could have different ones. One vampire could have no reflection, while another can't cross water. Some things like water and garlic could be entirely mental. People believe so much that myth, that that's what happens: they become freaked out by it.

However, a vampire could have no weaknesses, and in theory, a werewolf is going to walk in there and rip them in two. They're just bigger and stronger naturally. The power of a vampire is to stand behind a union and city development committee, and condemn the park the werewolves hung out in to become the next major condo. Vampires are entities among the masses. Werewolves are entities in and of themselves.

As for the powers, in the game I play there are several clans. Each clan of vampire suffers a certain curse, whether insanity, they can only drink certain blood, or they gain animalistic features when they frenzy, and these clans have three clan disciplines. Maybe something like that, where you just get a point in each area? Though Thaumaturgy has telekinesis, demon magic, and ignition under it, along with a cyber one, one that can tell you all about a person, and anything else you can imagine.

Though, I don't know about the restriction on Dominate. It's still based on the opponent's will. If a werewolf charges a vampire, there's a good chance the werewolf is going to shrug off a dominate attempt. It's mostly meant to enslave those weaker than you so you don't have to waste time on them.

In what I was doing, the Disciplines have levels of ability. Auspex originally allows someone to heighten their senses, then sense souls, and at the end they can create an astral projection of themselves to roam around the Umbra, or spirit realm. Dominate at first level allows one word to be issued, and it has to be understandable. "STOP!" will make a person stop. While at 5, you can take a person's mind, gut it out, and make them do whatever you want them to do. They're only a husk afterwards, waiting to do what you say. I don't know if you'd want to do clans, though.

Also, vampirism ended up being spread by killing the person (usually draining them entirely of blood), and giving them some of the vampire's blood. I think in Anne Rice it's similar where you have to give them blood.

And how does one become a pure blood, or how are they of weaker blood?  

[Chibi-Teddo]

Well you say so yourself, by belonging to generations farther from Cain.  

[Mistaken Chaos]

Umm Vampires are not human...far from it. So their mind cannot overpower them and make them afraid of things like garlic and running water. (Speaking of which, most stories throw out running water as any sort of possibility so I think we should too…) I’m also completely against the sun having any negative effect on them (except for maybe very weak Vampires). And it's not the blood that makes them what they are, though it is a large part of it. They are an entirely different race of being, as opposed to them being a type of human. Yes, they can turn humans but they are never anywhere near as powerful and are condemned from the start. Which brings me to another point: Vampires are very strong (even though they may not look it like a Lycan might...). They could take on a Lycan easily and single-handedly. It would be a fair match. Though Vampires have immense speed on their side and could possibly be faster than a Lycan, while a Lycan is stronger physically. But, the power of a Vampire is not simply to stand behind a union or city development committee. (And here I was thinking you were a Vampire supporter…)

As far as the story of their existence goes, I was reading Vampire: the Masquerade and in that they describe the story that made the first Vampires like this: As Jesus was being hung upon the cross there were guards there to ensure his death. One of the guards stabbed his side, causing much blood to escape from his body, a drop of it landing upon his lip. He licked it and forever thirst for more. Of course their description was much more eloquent than mine. But that would describe the fact that they are immortal and their strength. Maybe we could add in there that Satan blessed (okay that must be an oxymoron…) them with their beauty, strength, mind powers, ect. Or I liked your idea that they were demons cast from hell…

When it comes to their blood it would be the purest and oldest blood would be the strongest of the Vampires, the purebloods. For the weaker Vampires, they would have pure blood in them but aren’t as old in lineage or have some human blood in them. It’s relatively simple.

Though I am not opposed to clans. As a matter of fact, I was wondering about that. Teddo, are you for clans or no?

And Teddo, I was thinking that we should have levels and you can only have a certain amount from each level. And perhaps the purebloods have levels that they can attain that normal vampires cannot, no matter their age.

What do you think?  

[Ronyo Storm]

OK, THIS IS WHAT I UNDERSTAND AS BASIC FACTS FOR VAMPS. They drink blood to sustain their life, they are the creation of or in some way by the devil, wood kills them because Jesus was nail on the cross and wood is sacred, silver hurts them because it is pure, the sun kills them because they are cursed to stay within the shadows.

Personally I believe in three undisputable ideas that make a vampire a vampire. Blood drinking, death by wood (and sometimes silver), and death by sun light, If any I think the sun is the biggest factor in the whole thing. Vampires in any thought are evil and the sun is pure, natural bug (vamp) zapper. Plus it gives humans some ability to not always be cattle to the vamps.

In defense of the Lycans I have never known many vamps to go toe-to-toe fairly with a werewolf. There is always a bit of underhanded attacks or subterfuge. I’ll give speed to the vampires on some occasions, but power goes to the werewolf and agility. Think of the animals associated with the two. Bats are fast and quick while wolves are agile and powerful.  

[Master Strategist Kess]

The Jesus thing is Requiem, not Masquerade. In Requiem they come from several different sources.

And why can't they have human tendencies? They were once human. And how can they be faster than a Lycan? It's a wolf. If you do use Queen of the Damned as a reference, do realize those vampires they use were 400+ years old. They aren't dealing with the youngins.

Okay, this is my personal view on vampires. They are a dark mirror of humanity. They are everything bad that we are magnified. Vampires can be good, but really, if they are damned, the only way they could do any good is by going back to their mortal tendencies. I also like them being weaker than werewolves. They are generally highly charismatic individuals, and it would be an incredible boon to use the people. When you can't die, and you have eternity at your finger tips? There are dozens of little pawns waiting to move for you, so why risk your neck when there are so many others just waiting to risk theirs. I always found a vampire as a suave speaker who gets others to do his work, while the werewolf just jumps in. Also, with a vampire's power of charisma, it's horribly unfair to the werewolves if they're equal in one on one strength. A vampire can raise a mob against the werewolf, and then just finish the poor dog off.

Why shouldn't the sun hurt them? You seem very very hard core about that. I think one of the most wretched curses that could be levied on someone is no more sunlight ever. No more seeing a sunrise or sunset. No more basking in its warmth. No more tanning. These creatures are willing to sell their soul for power and immortality, why shouldn't they suffer something so incredibly horrible?

Also, Chaos, in yours what gives them pure blood? Is it just with age the blood purifies?

Oh, and do vampires have vitals in this? I like going with no, their brain's really the only thing working, everything else is a husk to house the blood they drain.

And I am a fan of vampires. I play it regularly, and I love them. But I love them because of their monstrous existence, how some fight it and how some embrace it. I love it because in the end, really, it's a tragic thing. They sold their passion for immortality and power, and generally it's never as good as it seemed when first bartering for it.

EDIT: Possible clans/clan concepts

An animalistic clan originating from Nord traditions. Basically the rough wild type.

An aristocratic clan that does things through "proper" mortal ways. They can be artistic, political, corporate, etc., but they're deep into mortal society. They push around other vampires as lords/princes/whatever else.

The anarchs, a group of vampires that simply loathe all ruling classes, and believe vampires should be free of the old bastards. They can cooperate with the aristocrats, just not real often. They like doing their own thing.

A sorcery clan. They channel blood to do magic beyond what other vampires do. They make things combust, fly, bring plants to life, and other feats that take a great deal more concentration. The darker side deals with demons and necromancy.

There are some ideas.  

[Chibi-Teddo]

First off: clans. Yes, I like them. They're quite lovely.

Also, have you ever SEEN a bat move? If you have, then it's not very debatable how they are more agile than a wolf. Four legs are handy but wings are a bit better. Strength goes to the Lycans by far, vampires possess considerable more speed, and I believe vampires would have a slight advantage in the agility department.

Furthermore: weaknesses. Sunlight: Weak vampires die, medium vampires suffer traumatizing wounds, elders can bear to stand in it for short spans, although they find absolutely no joy in the unpleasant act. Wood and silver: yes.

Story: I thought of another possible one. Anyone know Lilith? Well, supposedly following his forcing sin upon the earth through Eve, he fasted to contemplate the horrors he has brought upon humanity. Lilith, a beautiful demoness, finds him. (Lilith is closely associated with the devil) She forces herself upon him, bearing many spirits and evils. She leaves him, unfit to be his maiden in Eden. After a nondescript amount of time, she returns and takes him again. She begats him children. Furthermore, in the time that she was gone, she begat children of Cain, as well.

All of that is more or less referenced from the bible. In other words, the origins of vampires can either be of Cain and Lilith or Adam and Lilith. Maybe even both, giving rise to differing bloodlines.  

[Master Strategist Kess]

Masquerade actually uses Lilith a lot. When Cain goes into Nod, she teaches him. She also supposedly taught the Mages. Lilith was originally a demon/evil spirit in Babylon, the first reference in the Bible, and only, being I believe in Isaiah, while the Jews are in captivity in Babylon, since it's imagery they would understand. In around 1000 AD, the Cabala talks about Lilith being the first wife of Adam. Lilith ate of the fruit of knowledge, but Adam did not love her. God threw her out. She became the snake that tempted Eve, but Adam loved Eve and so ate from it as well, entirely aware he would get thrown out with Eve.

Lilith went on to create several gardens, one with Satan. The gardens were to be like the garden of Eden. The only one to succeed was the one she created with Lucifer, who she loved. But eventually Lucifer spurned her, left, and the garden fell into disrepair. I believe God sent some angels to smote it as well. There were a total of nine gardens. Now Lilith is trying to get revenge on Lucifer and God, and in the World of Darkness, Cain and his little bastards.

Can all vampires turn into bats? And...how large can they transform? Like giant bats? Because the wing span of a bat isn't large enough to outrun a werewolf. I like the idea that there's a skill that allows one to shape shift, instead of automatically.

Fortitude allows you endurance to the sun.

Celerity is your swiftness. If you have a Celerity of three, yes, you have a chance of being faster than a werewolf.

With enough Potence, you can punch a werewolf in the jaw and remove his head.

And remember, a lot of the vampires we love and adore are 400+ years old. They've had 5+ life times to perfect their abilities. Their body and mind has been perfected beyond human understanding, and their vampiric abilities have reached a level that most new vampires would never dream of. An elder can resist the direct noon sunlight for a 100 yard dash because he's worked on his Fortitude to such a level that it barely phases him. The powers aren't inherit to that age group: that age group worked their pale, bloodless butts off to get that ability.

As for the different bloodlines: The story I had was Cain ended up cursing his children as they attempted to kill Cain, and they shamed him by destroying his first city. Each curse created a different bloodline. Otherwise, having different ways to reach vampirism is neat. They use that in Requiem and a lot of other mythologies  

[Chibi-Teddo]

Wow. biggrin


I assume you mean transformation in the form of animalism? I hadn't thought about it. Probably pretty big bats, wingspan of like 4-6 feet?

Your analysis of the disciplines is quite right. I've created a D&D-esque character sheet for our vampires, and will be making one for werewolves as well.  

[Master Strategist Kess]

I <3 vampires. And even though Lilith is a raging [expletive], I <3 her too. If you look into Protean, it is the transformation line in Masquerade, starting out with transforming eyes to cat eyes, then making big claws, melding into the ground, shifting into animals, and turning into a mist.

Anyway, off to play with me buddy! ^_^  

[Mistaken Chaos]

Oh yeah, sorry. I must have gotten them confused. I had picked up the book in the library to try to get an idea of this whole tabletop rpg thing.
I truly don't know much about it at all.

Alright then, I'm glad you guys have completely decided upon the vampire genre.
Great group effort... stare

Oh and when did we decide upon them being able to transform into bats?
Eh...nevermind....
*gives up*  

[Master Strategist Kess]

...Vampires have always been able to transform into bats, wolves, and other things...since Dracula.

Do we want to keep the origin a mystery, something to discover later, and there are many possibilities? I would love to play a scholar type trying to figure it out on the side razz

Also...what genres are there for vampires? It's horror.  

[Mistaken Chaos]

I know there have been versions of vampires that have been able to transform (though I've never heard of them transforming into wolves...). I was talking about the version we were going to use...that is was this forum is about.

When I said genre I meant everything that we were deciding upon (the type of vampire, seeing as there are many takes upon the creature). Perhaps 'genre' wasn't the right word, but I thought you would understand what I was talking about.

It doesn't matter anyway.
It seems as though Teddo has already decided.  

[Chibi-Teddo]

A variety of older tales reference vampires turning into wolves, however, I'm cutting that part out due to the obvious fact that we have WEREWOLVES that can turn into wolves. I am now posting a preliminary skill progression list and character sheets in the gameplay thread. Tell me what you think.