Dangerous Practises

[T e t r a g r a m]

It seems like a pretty simple and clear warning to me. If you don't have the authority or confidence to command such beings then don't invoke what you can't banish.

If I knowingly can't control a pit bull, why would I let it out it's cage?  

[PrayThatThisEnds]

T e t r a g r a m

It seems like a pretty simple and clear warning to me. If you don't have the authority or confidence to command such beings then don't invoke what you can't banish.

If I knowingly can't control a pit bull, why would I let it out it's cage?

Exactly.

I don't believe that anything within "tradtional" magick, such as the Goetia, there is nothing evil there. When you ask Satan and not ADNI/YHVH for power - or Osiris, etc., whatever the case may be - and turn to something tradtionally "Dark" for guidance, then... thats when there is a problem.

Of course, you do need suitable practice and skills before working with the Goetia, etc.  

[Rustig]

Animeharpy

Dangerous?? i have yet to see anything posted on these occult forums that would be considered even mildly dangerous, not even the Goetia. But most of the people on these forums are independent practitioners without any formal instruction, who are cutting and pasting bits and pieces together. So most of their practices are nothing more that an esoteric practice in search of enlightenment , the only danger that could possible occur is a delusion of grandeur.

I resent that you assume independent occultists and those who are "cutting and pasting" beliefs are necessarily inferior to formally-educated practitioners. Though many of the folk on the forums are teenagers, and thus more suspectible to being bitten by the Unreasonable Bug, some of the best minds came from the camp of those who did not just stick to what they were taught.

Moreover, I think at the very least there must be something said about personality modification in magick - Chaos Magick, for example, teaches (in some schools) that deconstructing one's ego or personality is a worthwhile endeavour - this could very well result in some negative consequences like identity crises, lack of self-esteem and self-confidence and similar. Without mental crutches like the stable ego, some people will hurt themselves - sure, Chaos Magick is about helping the same people to learn how to walk on their own two feet again, but failing halfway through could result in some messed up mental processes.  

[biojerk]

Well, once we had a demon contact us. And we got rid of it pretty easily, but it was still pretty scary at first.

Her name was "Bane" and we didn't even know that was a word until we looked it up. It means "torment, or torture." Which is pretty weird. And she kept cussing us out when we asked her nicely to leave first. Then we said,"Well then I will have to force you." and she through a fit, and called us so many names it was insane. Our bodies got cold, but after the spell was over--everything stopped all the sudden.  

[Cunning Witch Angus]

biojerk

Well, once we had a demon contact us. And we got rid of it pretty easily, but it was still pretty scary at first.

Her name was "Bane" and we didn't even know that was a word until we looked it up. It means "torment, or torture." Which is pretty weird. And she kept cussing us out when we asked her nicely to leave first. Then we said,"Well then I will have to force you." and she through a fit, and called us so many names it was insane. Our bodies got cold, but after the spell was over--everything stopped all the sudden.

I was unaware that demons had a sex. Aren't the seraphim and demons, well...unable to reproduce in any way? Then again they could be hermaphrodites...  

[Rustig]

Angus of the Crooked Way

biojerk

Well, once we had a demon contact us. And we got rid of it pretty easily, but it was still pretty scary at first.

Her name was "Bane" and we didn't even know that was a word until we looked it up. It means "torment, or torture." Which is pretty weird. And she kept cussing us out when we asked her nicely to leave first. Then we said,"Well then I will have to force you." and she through a fit, and called us so many names it was insane. Our bodies got cold, but after the spell was over--everything stopped all the sudden.

I was unaware that demons had a sex. Aren't the seraphim and demons, well...unable to reproduce in any way? Then again they could be hermaphrodites...

Why not ask them? =P

Incubi and Succubi are said to have sexes, although some folk suggest that they can change sex at will.

T e t r a g r a m

It seems like a pretty simple and clear warning to me. If you don't have the authority or confidence to command such beings then don't invoke what you can't banish.

If I knowingly can't control a pit bull, why would I let it out it's cage?

My point is, when the topic of summoning demons or spirits and similar gets tossed around, you get warnings of "that's dangerous!" without any evidence to suggest so, other than purely theoretical scenarios, friend-of-a-friend stories, or "I had a headache for three seconds but then I was fine" tales.

To modify your comparison somewhat, it seems a lot more like releasing an animal that you've never actually seen before but have had warnings from several dubious people online not to release despite the fact that its most dangerous attributes are making you feel a little cold and hiding your slippers.  

[erinnightwalker]

i must say, i haven't really had any *bad* experiences with magic.... then again i haven't really tried spirit summoning, ouija, etc.

granted, it's an outsiders opinion but if you put careful enough conditions on who and what can use your board you shouldn't have any problems with unknowns. as far as i know, most people who end up having the really bad experiences tend to ask for anybody/thing but you get what you ask for. no limitations=ouija free for all.

as for things like the goetia, there shouldn't be any problem at all working with them- as long as you know exactly what you are doing and are comfortable with the system. i wouldn't summon a goetic being any more than i would invite an orisha or lwa into my home. i simply do not know them. i could offer deadly insult and never know it until i got cancer or a stroke. all i can say is do exhaustive research before doing anything with an unknown spirit.

magical acts in general, like non-spirit related spells and workings, have never frightened me. closest thing i've had to a close, spirit related call was the equinox ritual i did with my friends. we invited fairies and let me tell you, they are playful little things. when i got home i was surrounded by them XD  

[Rustig]

erinnightwalker

i wouldn't summon a goetic being any more than i would invite an orisha or lwa into my home. i simply do not know them. i could offer deadly insult and never know it until i got cancer or a stroke.

That bit I quoted is my point. Why do you think you might accidentally insult them, and thus become ill as a result? Is it a theory you think is likely, or do you have knowledge of an incident where this happened?  

[erinnightwalker]

Mitsh

erinnightwalker

i wouldn't summon a goetic being any more than i would invite an orisha or lwa into my home. i simply do not know them. i could offer deadly insult and never know it until i got cancer or a stroke.

That bit I quoted is my point. Why do you think you might accidentally insult them, and thus become ill as a result? Is it a theory you think is likely, or do you have knowledge of an incident where this happened?

well based on my readings (for example, using the orishas) if you cuss at all in the presence of oya, she is highly insulted, even if its not directed at her. if you invoke oya and oshun at the same time, they have a hissy fit. i don't think that i will become ill, per se, but bad luck? oh yes.
i think it is likely because any sort of spirit is used to respect from those that worship them. disrespect from someone that they do not know and who does not accord them the respect due any spirit, especially an unknown one, wouldn't be viewed in any sort of positive light. personally, i do not know anyone who has gone summoning unknown spirits. the closest thing i know is my friend who has mediumistic tendencies but she uses a bunch of protections and doesn't summon what she doesn't know.  

[Rustig]

erinnightwalker

Mitsh

erinnightwalker

i wouldn't summon a goetic being any more than i would invite an orisha or lwa into my home. i simply do not know them. i could offer deadly insult and never know it until i got cancer or a stroke.

That bit I quoted is my point. Why do you think you might accidentally insult them, and thus become ill as a result? Is it a theory you think is likely, or do you have knowledge of an incident where this happened?

well based on my readings (for example, using the orishas) if you cuss at all in the presence of oya, she is highly insulted, even if its not directed at her. if you invoke oya and oshun at the same time, they have a hissy fit. i don't think that i will become ill, per se, but bad luck? oh yes.
i think it is likely because any sort of spirit is used to respect from those that worship them. disrespect from someone that they do not know and who does not accord them the respect due any spirit, especially an unknown one, wouldn't be viewed in any sort of positive light. personally, i do not know anyone who has gone summoning unknown spirits. the closest thing i know is my friend who has mediumistic tendencies but she uses a bunch of protections and doesn't summon what she doesn't know.

Again though, your belief that bad things will happen comes not from yourown experience, but from what some folk said in a book. (Tangentially, I know only a little bit about the Yoruba, but I've heard the same said of Erzulie Freda and Ezili Danto from Haitian Voodoo). You think you might get bad luck from the entities solely because the book tells you so - were someone to read your post, they may take it as fact that when the orisha Oya and Oshun are summoned together, something bad will happen. It only takes a little for that misunderstanding to become dogma.

In closing though, I realise I'm skirting quite close to hardened skepticism, and I'm not trying to debunk your beliefs, so please don't think I'm making an attack on you. Just discussing.  

[erinnightwalker]

Mitsh

erinnightwalker

Mitsh

erinnightwalker

i wouldn't summon a goetic being any more than i would invite an orisha or lwa into my home. i simply do not know them. i could offer deadly insult and never know it until i got cancer or a stroke.

That bit I quoted is my point. Why do you think you might accidentally insult them, and thus become ill as a result? Is it a theory you think is likely, or do you have knowledge of an incident where this happened?

well based on my readings (for example, using the orishas) if you cuss at all in the presence of oya, she is highly insulted, even if its not directed at her. if you invoke oya and oshun at the same time, they have a hissy fit. i don't think that i will become ill, per se, but bad luck? oh yes.
i think it is likely because any sort of spirit is used to respect from those that worship them. disrespect from someone that they do not know and who does not accord them the respect due any spirit, especially an unknown one, wouldn't be viewed in any sort of positive light. personally, i do not know anyone who has gone summoning unknown spirits. the closest thing i know is my friend who has mediumistic tendencies but she uses a bunch of protections and doesn't summon what she doesn't know.

Again though, your belief that bad things will happen comes not from yourown experience, but from what some folk said in a book. (Tangentially, I know only a little bit about the Yoruba, but I've heard the same said of Erzulie Freda and Ezili Danto from Haitian Voodoo). You think you might get bad luck from the entities solely because the book tells you so - were someone to read your post, they may take it as fact that when the orisha Oya and Oshun are summoned together, something bad will happen. It only takes a little for that misunderstanding to become dogma.

In closing though, I realise I'm skirting quite close to hardened skepticism, and I'm not trying to debunk your beliefs, so please don't think I'm making an attack on you. Just discussing.

well, since i am not personally involved with those spirits all i have is secondhand information, whether from books or from people. i suppose that i could try to get firsthand information but since i am not comfortable with that system, i'm not going to go poking around and disturb spirits who don't particularly care for my well-being. i tend towards the incredibly careful when dealing with any spirit that hasn't made an overture to me first (even then i walk cautiously).
plus, i would hope that anyone who would want to work with/summon a particular spirit would research the object of their attention (including talking to any current devotees) as much as possible. i think of it this way- on the one hand, if its really true i can plan around it. on the other, if its not true i will either discover it when i'm researching or, at worst, have to do separate rituals.

no attack was taken in the writing of this reply smile i just personally believe in the two r's- respect and research.  

[Chieftain Twilight]

Summoning things... bad practice... becuse one of those times you are going to attract the attention of some badass. i've gotten involved with summonings before, and ended up getting some nasties.

while i was at a mental health institute me and this guy johnny were playing with the Connect Four game. after we finished we started stacking th epieces up based on intuition. when we were done we looked at it and it had an archaic-looking image of a beastial head. looking at it differently we could mke out occult symbols (a pentagram, a spiral and several crosses in various positions).

i went into the bathroom and tried to summon it, and it turned out to be some kind of reptilian tiger. it was extremely viscious and it had a very obvious sadistic intelligence. it was speaking in roars and growls, but i could tell that it was some kind of complex language. it was hitting me with alot of pressure and gave me a HUGE astral headache...

it took alot to banish it again and ward it off. it plagues Johnny for another few days.

and then there is another case that is far worse, but i can't talk about it because the more one knows about it or is aware of it the more danger they are in. the more aware they are of you, and the easier it is for them to bypass your wards and energy patterns.  

[Captain Chemosh]

My own warning (for Shintoists, Neo-Shintoists, and the like), don't invoke a Kami of death and deal with it as your patron Kami. As a personal experience the results are disastrous. For me I got stuck with a great fortitude against all illnesses and poisons, heck I even died once and came back. The downside though would have to be my sadistic, sociopathic tendencies that can flare up at any time. So my warning is clear, although there are advantages, never invoke something without all of the downsides being perfectly clear and controllable.  

[iy8970970607]

I have recent experiance.

I was attempting to do a banishing ritual on something that lived in my false-laundryroom. Apparently it was stronger than I thoguht and did infact go "elsewhere" as in the banishing spell, but that elsewhere was me. I had very interesting personality changes within hours. It was surrounding me and using what I suspect as suggestion to aclimate to a faux-possession. ( I had all my thoughts it's just they were modified quickly.) I had major personality changes... Power-hungry, Narcisist( which is the opposite side of the spectrum from me usualy.) and... Evil embracing... which kinda enthralls me...

it took a very wonderful person to remove it. So...

my lesson for everyone is:

1. Don't be stupid.
2. Protect yourself.
3. Don't work outside your range.  

[Cunning Witch Angus]

Dangerous practices?

...hmm...

oH! entheogenic substances Very dangerous, but in the right dosage, a lot of fun and a good experience for all.

Let's see...I have never summoned anything, as I don't feel comfortable doing so.

But, no not really.


My lesson of the day:
~Magic is really very simple, all you have to do is want something and then let yourself have it!!!!!~