Contradictions, Contradictions

[ElenaMason]

D i v i n i t y

SaintChaos

[-Erik-]

SaintChaos

Those doomed to Hell, it doesn't matter what they do, they're going to Hell anyway. Those chosen for Heaven, also doesn't matter what they do because they're going to Heaven anyway.

Catholics believe that by doing "good deeds" alone will get you to Heaven. But that's not true. Its a false belief and false teaching and there's nothing in a correctly translated bible that says as such. It is not in our power to spiritually save ourselves. However, it DOES matter what you do on earth because well, karma for lack of better words. Everything has a consequence and if you do stupid things, stupid things are going to happen to you so its not like you can like go out and murder someone and not get away with it. You go to jail. *shrugs*

Woah, woah! How come that is a lie? How is someone destinated go to what place? That sounds so unfair coming from God l:

lol unfair? whats unfair is the suck a** justice system in california. THATS whats unfair hahah but no, the way i see it, and to go along with a verse that is based on this very thing, "...what is the clay to say to the potter?" when a man creates something, isn't it of his right to do what he wants with it? course yeah thats a double edge sword, but we're only trying to see things from OUR point of view. we're not god. we can't see into the thoughts and minds of those around us and what their TRUE intentions are.

for instance....i hear never ending stories of how people who lived next door to a murderer or rapist and claimed how nice of a person they were. until one day, boom, that person is in jail for their crimes. so in other words, we don't know the true intentions of each person or what they're really like. and god is all knowing, so he knows what people would do, if they were given salvation or not. that's the best way i can explain things and thats about as deep as the bible goes on the issue on how god has things set.

so is it really our place to question? i think we definitely have a right to, but on a personal level I try not to because it really isn't my place. for all the things he's done for me and given to me in my life....i wouldn't dare step that line. at least i try my best not to. but everything has a purpose and verses state as such. especially one in particular: NASB Proverbs 16:4 (lord made all for its purpose, even evil for day of evil) and Romans 9:22-23 (god…endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and he did so…to show his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he prepared beforehand for glory)

There are other verses too as well. I'll post them if you wish, but that's about as best as I can explain everything.

"What is the clay to say to the potter?"
You really think that if a man creates something then he can do anyhting he wants with it? So if humans managed to one day create robots that could function like humans, had pain receptors and could feel emotions just as well as any normal human could... you think that it's RIGHT and FAIR for us to be able to "do whatever we want" with it? So it's fair to torture that thing as much as we want?

No I don't personally believe that. I was just asking a question. If you're saying God is sending people to Hell with a malicious intent of torturing them for fun, because he can, then I'm sending the wrong signal here. That's not why he sends them to hell. I guess the bottom line is, on a personal level, I trust God with everything and he knows everything and he created everything specifically for a purpose.

But don't take my entire word for it. Again...I'm not God. I'm only explaining things from my perspective and my personal opinion on the matter for why God predestines some for heaven and some for hell. Most likely my explanation for things is wrong because I'm not God. I can't see from his point of view so I can only speak of the matter on my level of thinking. And that's about as best as I can say it. I don't expect people to accept it and that's completely understandable, but don't take my entire word for it.  

[D i v i n i t y]

SaintChaos

No I don't personally believe that. I was just asking a question. If you're saying God is sending people to Hell with a malicious intent of torturing them for fun, because he can, then I'm sending the wrong signal here. That's not why he sends them to hell. I guess the bottom line is, on a personal level, I trust God with everything and he knows everything and he created everything specifically for a purpose.

But don't take my entire word for it. Again...I'm not God. I'm only explaining things from my perspective and my personal opinion on the matter for why God predestines some for heaven and some for hell. Most likely my explanation for things is wrong because I'm not God. I can't see from his point of view so I can only speak of the matter on my level of thinking. And that's about as best as I can say it. I don't expect people to accept it and that's completely understandable, but don't take my entire word for it.

Lol ok. I think it's odd that God would predestine some people for Hell o.O
Well, I also find it simply odd that God would create humans so so so incapable of understanding his reasoning, his nature, etc. when he could have so easily done so. Faith is also kind of trippy for me; I don't understand why anyone would believe on "faith." It's like a fancy way of saying "believing despite lack of good evidence."  

[ElenaMason]

D i v i n i t y

SaintChaos

No I don't personally believe that. I was just asking a question. If you're saying God is sending people to Hell with a malicious intent of torturing them for fun, because he can, then I'm sending the wrong signal here. That's not why he sends them to hell. I guess the bottom line is, on a personal level, I trust God with everything and he knows everything and he created everything specifically for a purpose.

But don't take my entire word for it. Again...I'm not God. I'm only explaining things from my perspective and my personal opinion on the matter for why God predestines some for heaven and some for hell. Most likely my explanation for things is wrong because I'm not God. I can't see from his point of view so I can only speak of the matter on my level of thinking. And that's about as best as I can say it. I don't expect people to accept it and that's completely understandable, but don't take my entire word for it.

Lol ok. I think it's odd that God would predestine some people for Hell o.O
Well, I also find it simply odd that God would create humans so so so incapable of understanding his reasoning, his nature, etc. when he could have so easily done so. Faith is also kind of trippy for me; I don't understand why anyone would believe on "faith." It's like a fancy way of saying "believing despite lack of good evidence."

Well, for me I have faith because there are events in my life that are too "ironic" or too "coincidental". In fact I don't believe in coincidences. Everything has a purpose and a path. I also have faith that God exists because I don't believe in evolution. Everything is too finely put together to be just made by accident. And technically speaking, if demons exists and angels exist, there's gotta be someone who controls them otherwise we'd be complete pawns to Satan. And I have personally dealt with demons so even if there isn't "scientific" evidence of God existing, there is plenty of events in my life and things I've dealt with that tell me other wise.

But that is all a personal belief.  

[D i v i n i t y]

SaintChaos

D i v i n i t y

SaintChaos

No I don't personally believe that. I was just asking a question. If you're saying God is sending people to Hell with a malicious intent of torturing them for fun, because he can, then I'm sending the wrong signal here. That's not why he sends them to hell. I guess the bottom line is, on a personal level, I trust God with everything and he knows everything and he created everything specifically for a purpose.

But don't take my entire word for it. Again...I'm not God. I'm only explaining things from my perspective and my personal opinion on the matter for why God predestines some for heaven and some for hell. Most likely my explanation for things is wrong because I'm not God. I can't see from his point of view so I can only speak of the matter on my level of thinking. And that's about as best as I can say it. I don't expect people to accept it and that's completely understandable, but don't take my entire word for it.

Lol ok. I think it's odd that God would predestine some people for Hell o.O
Well, I also find it simply odd that God would create humans so so so incapable of understanding his reasoning, his nature, etc. when he could have so easily done so. Faith is also kind of trippy for me; I don't understand why anyone would believe on "faith." It's like a fancy way of saying "believing despite lack of good evidence."

Well, for me I have faith because there are events in my life that are too "ironic" or too "coincidental". In fact I don't believe in coincidences. Everything has a purpose and a path. I also have faith that God exists because I don't believe in evolution. Everything is too finely put together to be just made by accident. And technically speaking, if demons exists and angels exist, there's gotta be someone who controls them otherwise we'd be complete pawns to Satan. And I have personally dealt with demons so even if there isn't "scientific" evidence of God existing, there is plenty of events in my life and things I've dealt with that tell me other wise.

But that is all a personal belief.

I see. Well, just throwing this out there... you don't accept evolutoin as in... the theory of evolution right? Well, it isn't impossible to believe in God or gods and still acknowlege the theory of evolution by the way o.o
It's "theistic evolution." Of course I'm not a theistic evolutionist but I'm just saying they exist... Well, if you really think ever thing is TOO "finely put together" to have NOT been created then I don't really know how anyone can change your mind lol o.o
Many many many of us would say that it's NOT too finely put together and that even if it SEEMS too "coincidental" to be possible, it doesn't mean that it can't actually be a coincidence. God itself is a too much of a mystery, IMO, to use as answers to any questions.  

[ElenaMason]

D i v i n i t y

SaintChaos

D i v i n i t y

SaintChaos

No I don't personally believe that. I was just asking a question. If you're saying God is sending people to Hell with a malicious intent of torturing them for fun, because he can, then I'm sending the wrong signal here. That's not why he sends them to hell. I guess the bottom line is, on a personal level, I trust God with everything and he knows everything and he created everything specifically for a purpose.

But don't take my entire word for it. Again...I'm not God. I'm only explaining things from my perspective and my personal opinion on the matter for why God predestines some for heaven and some for hell. Most likely my explanation for things is wrong because I'm not God. I can't see from his point of view so I can only speak of the matter on my level of thinking. And that's about as best as I can say it. I don't expect people to accept it and that's completely understandable, but don't take my entire word for it.

Lol ok. I think it's odd that God would predestine some people for Hell o.O
Well, I also find it simply odd that God would create humans so so so incapable of understanding his reasoning, his nature, etc. when he could have so easily done so. Faith is also kind of trippy for me; I don't understand why anyone would believe on "faith." It's like a fancy way of saying "believing despite lack of good evidence."

Well, for me I have faith because there are events in my life that are too "ironic" or too "coincidental". In fact I don't believe in coincidences. Everything has a purpose and a path. I also have faith that God exists because I don't believe in evolution. Everything is too finely put together to be just made by accident. And technically speaking, if demons exists and angels exist, there's gotta be someone who controls them otherwise we'd be complete pawns to Satan. And I have personally dealt with demons so even if there isn't "scientific" evidence of God existing, there is plenty of events in my life and things I've dealt with that tell me other wise.

But that is all a personal belief.

I see. Well, just throwing this out there... you don't accept evolutoin as in... the theory of evolution right? Well, it isn't impossible to believe in God or gods and still acknowlege the theory of evolution by the way o.o
It's "theistic evolution." Of course I'm not a theistic evolutionist but I'm just saying they exist... Well, if you really think ever thing is TOO "finely put together" to have NOT been created then I don't really know how anyone can change your mind lol o.o
Many many many of us would say that it's NOT too finely put together and that even if it SEEMS too "coincidental" to be possible, it doesn't mean that it can't actually be a coincidence. God itself is a too much of a mystery, IMO, to use as answers to any questions.

I guess evolution is a loose term. The type of evolution I'm thinking of is us evolving from apes theory. Which is utter crap to me. I also don't believe that one species can like mentally change an aspect of itself and evolve to adapt to its environment. Not sure how else to word that. Like the other day on myspace they were advertising how a species of moth they call vampire moths are a new evolution which is ******** utter s**t. Its not evolution...its just a species that wasn't FOUND until as of now. Evolving to fit the environment my a**. Sorry and excuse the language. Just the evolution I'm speaking of just sounds like the biggest crap to me. *shrugs* As far as coincidences go, true coincidences are rare I guess to better word my belief. Its just when I look at all the events in my life, things that have happened, big or small, and the people I've met, it just seems all finely nit together as if certain events were supposed to happen to get up to where I am now. At least that's how I view things.  

[D i v i n i t y]

SaintChaos

I guess evolution is a loose term. The type of evolution I'm thinking of is us evolving from apes theory. Which is utter crap to me. I also don't believe that one species can like mentally change an aspect of itself and evolve to adapt to its environment. Not sure how else to word that. Like the other day on myspace they were advertising how a species of moth they call vampire moths are a new evolution which is ******** utter s**t. Its not evolution...its just a species that wasn't FOUND until as of now. Evolving to fit the environment my a**. Sorry and excuse the language. Just the evolution I'm speaking of just sounds like the biggest crap to me. *shrugs* As far as coincidences go, true coincidences are rare I guess to better word my belief. Its just when I look at all the events in my life, things that have happened, big or small, and the people I've met, it just seems all finely nit together as if certain events were supposed to happen to get up to where I am now. At least that's how I view things.

Well, if you could REALLY explain to me why that theory is such crap then I'll gladly listen. I, along with many many people don't think that the theory is crap at all. It's not because we hate God, or we love monkeys and apes or anything like that... It's simply a pretty convincing theory with lots of evidence to support it. If you can thoroughly explain why you think it's "bullshit" then I'd like to hear it. "Evolving to fit the environment"... So like adapting? I mean I know you don't believe in the major scale evolution but I don't understand why anyone would NOT believe in microevolution, etc. unless they were completely illiterate about the subject. Microevolution seemingly doesn't contradict the bible or anything so it isn't an "attack" on Christianity as so many people would claim, but macroevolution is simply A LOT of microevolution... obviously, lots of Christians deny that.. some of them even choose to deny both of them because they don't want to accept anything, regardless of how much evidence or how sound the claim is, that contradicts any of their beliefs.  

[[-Erik-]]

SaintChaos

Well, for me I have faith because there are events in my life that are too "ironic" or too "coincidental". In fact I don't believe in coincidences. Everything has a purpose and a path. I also have faith that God exists because I don't believe in evolution. Everything is too finely put together to be just made by accident. And technically speaking, if demons exists and angels exist, there's gotta be someone who controls them otherwise we'd be complete pawns to Satan. And I have personally dealt with demons so even if there isn't "scientific" evidence of God existing, there is plenty of events in my life and things I've dealt with that tell me other wise.

But that is all a personal belief.

Well, I don't know what kind of events you are talking about here, but "angels and demons"?

That's even wackier than evolution could possibly ever be, explain yourself, please? confused

Oh, oh, yeah, before I forget it... no more bible verses please, I can't understand all those difficult, poetic words, not even in my first language D:  

[PathlessPlot]

SaintChaos

D i v i n i t y

SaintChaos

D i v i n i t y

SaintChaos

No I don't personally believe that. I was just asking a question. If you're saying God is sending people to Hell with a malicious intent of torturing them for fun, because he can, then I'm sending the wrong signal here. That's not why he sends them to hell. I guess the bottom line is, on a personal level, I trust God with everything and he knows everything and he created everything specifically for a purpose.

But don't take my entire word for it. Again...I'm not God. I'm only explaining things from my perspective and my personal opinion on the matter for why God predestines some for heaven and some for hell. Most likely my explanation for things is wrong because I'm not God. I can't see from his point of view so I can only speak of the matter on my level of thinking. And that's about as best as I can say it. I don't expect people to accept it and that's completely understandable, but don't take my entire word for it.

Lol ok. I think it's odd that God would predestine some people for Hell o.O
Well, I also find it simply odd that God would create humans so so so incapable of understanding his reasoning, his nature, etc. when he could have so easily done so. Faith is also kind of trippy for me; I don't understand why anyone would believe on "faith." It's like a fancy way of saying "believing despite lack of good evidence."

Well, for me I have faith because there are events in my life that are too "ironic" or too "coincidental". In fact I don't believe in coincidences. Everything has a purpose and a path. I also have faith that God exists because I don't believe in evolution. Everything is too finely put together to be just made by accident. And technically speaking, if demons exists and angels exist, there's gotta be someone who controls them otherwise we'd be complete pawns to Satan. And I have personally dealt with demons so even if there isn't "scientific" evidence of God existing, there is plenty of events in my life and things I've dealt with that tell me other wise.

But that is all a personal belief.

I see. Well, just throwing this out there... you don't accept evolutoin as in... the theory of evolution right? Well, it isn't impossible to believe in God or gods and still acknowlege the theory of evolution by the way o.o
It's "theistic evolution." Of course I'm not a theistic evolutionist but I'm just saying they exist... Well, if you really think ever thing is TOO "finely put together" to have NOT been created then I don't really know how anyone can change your mind lol o.o
Many many many of us would say that it's NOT too finely put together and that even if it SEEMS too "coincidental" to be possible, it doesn't mean that it can't actually be a coincidence. God itself is a too much of a mystery, IMO, to use as answers to any questions.

I guess evolution is a loose term. The type of evolution I'm thinking of is us evolving from apes theory. Which is utter crap to me. I also don't believe that one species can like mentally change an aspect of itself and evolve to adapt to its environment. Not sure how else to word that. Like the other day on myspace they were advertising how a species of moth they call vampire moths are a new evolution which is ******** utter s**t. Its not evolution...its just a species that wasn't FOUND until as of now. Evolving to fit the environment my a**. Sorry and excuse the language. Just the evolution I'm speaking of just sounds like the biggest crap to me. *shrugs* As far as coincidences go, true coincidences are rare I guess to better word my belief. Its just when I look at all the events in my life, things that have happened, big or small, and the people I've met, it just seems all finely nit together as if certain events were supposed to happen to get up to where I am now. At least that's how I view things.

The theory of Evolution does not claim that we evolved from monkeys or apes. It says that we share a common ancestor with apes. The way I was taught and understand it, the line branched off and we got early humans and apes. Not apes first humans second.  

[ElenaMason]

D i v i n i t y

Well, if you could REALLY explain to me why that theory is such crap then I'll gladly listen. I, along with many many people don't think that the theory is crap at all. It's not because we hate God, or we love monkeys and apes or anything like that... It's simply a pretty convincing theory with lots of evidence to support it. If you can thoroughly explain why you think it's "bullshit" then I'd like to hear it. "Evolving to fit the environment"... So like adapting? I mean I know you don't believe in the major scale evolution but I don't understand why anyone would NOT believe in microevolution, etc. unless they were completely illiterate about the subject. Microevolution seemingly doesn't contradict the bible or anything so it isn't an "attack" on Christianity as so many people would claim, but macroevolution is simply A LOT of microevolution... obviously, lots of Christians deny that.. some of them even choose to deny both of them because they don't want to accept anything, regardless of how much evidence or how sound the claim is, that contradicts any of their beliefs.

The fact and evidence we share what is it...that there is only a 2% genetic difference between humans and apes? That I believe. That's fine with me I mean there's evidence showing it. Does that mean we evolve from apes? Nope. Mutation I believe in as well. I mean its basically like a gene turning into a virus...its mutates. Simple science and its proven. Crap how can I explain what I'm thinking of....OH okay. Example: (I can't get to specific heights because I can't fly. Therefore I'm going to will myself to changing my own genetic code and I will create my own bodily wings to adapt to my problem.) I don't know if there is a specific scientific word for that type of theory, been a long time since I got on a subject of evolution of any kind, but that type of theory to me is utter crap. Humans obviously can't do it...so I don't see how anything else can. I mean it just doesn't make sense. If there's evidence for such a thing, then find an article for me to read about it or something. I'd love to see what it says.

Microevolution, Macroevolution. I wikipedia-ed it and yeah, that makes sense to me. Its basically the transfer of a genetic trait either affected by mutation or whatever of the like. I'm assuming, in simple terms and phrases that's what its basically stating? Is the transfer of a genetic code? Honestly I don't automatically think that any science is a so called "attack" on Christianity. All that science does imo, is explain HOW everything works, that God created. Science to me is also a point of view from the perspective of mankind. (don't ask....) I personally just find the subject of evolution extremely annoying. So sorry if any of this is coming off as offensive, that's not my intent. Something like the Big Bang theory though...1)It doesn't make sense to begin with that we all just magically appeared from this goop of substance and somehow all managed to come out differently and that the universe also just suddenly came out of nowhere. That makes no sense to me scientifically, religiously, or logically. And 2)Well based on my beliefs, God created everything, and made man out of simple dust of the earth. HAHAH and then I can hear you guys jumping in and saying "that makes no sense scientifically or logically" hahah irony? But the big bang theory DOES contradict the bible so naturally I won't believe in THAT regard in this particular situation.

-Erik-

Well, I don't know what kind of events you are talking about here, but "angels and demons"?

That's even wackier than evolution could possibly ever be, explain yourself, please? icon_confused.gif

Oh, oh, yeah, before I forget it... no more bible verses please, I can't understand all those difficult, poetic words, not even in my first language D:

Well let me ask you this in a form of an answer. If you see something, and have dealt with something, and know that you are perfectly sane in the head and that you were wide awake when it was going on, would you still deny what you dealt with? Me believing in spirits is no different than me dealing with the very air we breathe. I have seen spirits, I have physically felt and intuitively sensed spirits, and I have dealt with them. So yeah...I believe they exist. And the belief in them also coexists with my belief in the bible.

I've taken pictures and have audible EVP'S (electromagnetic voice phenomenon) which is scientific evidence to me, so yeah...do I believe they exist? You betcha. As far as quoting bible verses...the ONLY reason I do that in this guild, is basically to show viewable reference to what I'm speaking about. Cuz you know, I mean I don't want to just sit here, speaking about a specific belief in the bible without SOME type of reference and that the words I speak aren't just being pulled out of my a** randomly. Know what I mean? Guess its a habit...I'll try to refrain from doing so in the future lol.  

[[-Erik-]]

Spirits, like ghosts, right?
Well, I am not too sure about those since I've never had encountered them before, but maybe if I did I'd change my mind. Maybe.

And about the bible verses... I just don't understand them.
I just can't digest what they want to teach me >:l

 

[ElenaMason]

[-Erik-]

Spirits, like ghosts, right?
Well, I am not too sure about those since I've never had encountered them before, but maybe if I did I'd change my mind. Maybe.

And about the bible verses... I just don't understand them.
I just can't digest what they want to teach me >:l

Spirits- yeah basically...I firmly believe in them because of the encounters I've had with them. And I know for a fact I'm not delusional or pschizophrenic or anything that would cause me to see something I know isn't there because of a mental disorder.

Bible Verses- fair enough. I'll try my best to not quote them unless specifically asked for otherwise heart

Speaking of things not being understood, I was pretty damn good with my science classes in highschool and some of my college years, but its been a while and anything dealing directly with evolution, try to tone it down on the scientific terms, or explain it to me in basic words cuz...well its been a while since I studied it hahah so I was like "dur hur???" when you guys brought up macroevolution and microevolution xD thank god for wikipedia. If its anything involving the psychological understanding of the mind, THAT I completely understand. Anything dealing with computers and technology, 80% of it I understand. But biological? Tone it down a notch guys hahaha.

On a random note Erik, your avatar flashing picture thing creeps me the hell out and makes me laugh at the same time hahah  

[[-Erik-]]

Science isn't really my best subject, I've never been good at paying atention, you see.

To me evolution is cheesy and sometimes silly, and even if it's the most logical or seemingly correct theory there is it is still a theory, wich means it is a suposition and can be wrong.

Maybe when we die we'll know the truth o:

What if when we die the one we see is... Buddah?  

[ElenaMason]

[-Erik-]

What if when we die the one we see is... Buddah?

I'd smack him on the belly. biggrin  

[D i v i n i t y]

[-Erik-]

Science isn't really my best subject, I've never been good at paying atention, you see.

To me evolution is cheesy and sometimes silly, and even if it's the most logical or seemingly correct theory there is it is still a theory, wich means it is a suposition and can be wrong.

Maybe when we die we'll know the truth o:

What if when we die the one we see is... Buddah?

Ummm.. anything CAN be wrong, since I don't think anyone can be absolutely 100% sure about anything. I don't know if it's juts me but I feel like you're misunderstanding what a "theory" is in the realm of science. A theory, in science, isn't just some wild guess by some drunk science nerd on a friday night; it's something that must not be contradicted by ANY other theories and must be supported by sufficient evidence. Let me tell you this: It does not lack evidence.

Now this part isn't directed to but I just wanted to say this: I don't think anyone should deny the theory of evolution or even the Big Bang theory unless they REALLY understand what it is. Too many people misunderstand the theories and therefore think it's too retarded, etc.

I don't understand why anyone would deny the theory of evolution unless they purposely censor themself from it, are simply ignorant, or just refuse to understand it because it contradicts their belief. I think everyone's belief should not be one adopted by parents or friends or anything like that. I think people's beliefs should HONESTLY be the most accurate representation of reality for them. We all know that most theists don't believe in what they belief because they feel like it's the "most accurate representation of reality."

On a side note: I remember when i used to a Christian and I had trouble with it because of certain things I felt made sense but contradicted my religion (theory of evolution, etc.)
Even nowdays, I have a bunch of my Christian friends trying to convince me about Christianity and I try to reason with them, but it's so hard. It's sort of sad since I see a little bit of me in each of them =/
Or how I USED to be I mean. I used to look down on atheists and used to think it was the most absurd thing. I was a bit more lenient toward deism, etc. though. Anyways, enough of my life story o.o lol...