Atheism and Gay marriage

[PolityOfQueens]

I figure I'd better share the quotations of an anti-gay agnostic I had the privelage of arguing with:

Quote:

`Ramune

I feel my post pretty much explained itself. I mean, I'm an open person to friends, but there is always something you don't like in a person. Mine happens to be their sexual preference. Honestly, I don't mind if they say, "Hey I'm gay!" but I do have a problem if they marry. I feel that saying you're gay is okay just because it's under our 10 amendments for freedom of speech, but it does bug me that they are. I believe a relationship should be between a man and woman, but I don't have a preferable religion.

`Ramune

Why the hell do you think other people don't agree with it? It's either because of damn religion or because they don't like it! You know, there are some people who may not like Republicans or Democrats, or even the freaking Pope because they simply don't like it. Sorry to say, I'm just one of those people. There shouldn't be any other reason that I think two men or women should marry each other! I think it's wrong, and I gave you a probable reason why I don't like it. What the hell were you expecting me to say? I'm sorry you weren't expecting the response you wanted, but some people are a little more hard to convince about same-sex marriage or relationship.

`Ramune

I'm sorry if YOU are gay and don't like me bashing what you believe in. But I'm tired that I've already tried to apologize once and that I wish not to make an enemy, so I'm going to drop it after I answer your last question.

I believe a relationship between a man and a woman because they can, not only reproduce and procreate ours species, but I think every-other relationship like being GAY is sick, disgusting, and repulsive. Just imagining a GAY LIFESTYLE sickens me to my core. And, not only that, but the WAY THEY ACT makes me vomit a little everytime I see it. I may have a best friend that's GAY, but I gave him a chance to be that to me, and he knows very well my belief's on Anti-Gay and he RESPECTS THEM unlike you.

So, sir, I tip my hat to you. Have a nice life f---ing your same sex, because I never will and won't. BECAUSE THAT'S MY DAMN OPINION.

What do the good people of GAU make of this?

EDIT: Oh, and at another point, she tried to weasel her way out of being labled a homophobe. Just the usual semantic bullshit.  

[Misanthropic Altruist]

That agnostic is an idiot.

No one cares what you're opinion is. If you don't like the idea of homosexuality, fine! It's just that you have no right to have your opinion turned into LAW merely because it's your opinion. There is no good reason to prohibit homosexuals from being married. The procreation excuse is not a good reason. Marriage is a symbol of love, not a contract stating that the couple will one day procreate.

I'll add more as soon as I can think of more.  

[fhbnfghnbfgbsnbg]

Misanthropic Altruist

That agnostic is an idiot.

No one cares what you're opinion is. If you don't like the idea of homosexuality, fine! It's just that you have no right to have your opinion turned into LAW merely because it's your opinion. There is no good reason to prohibit homosexuals from being married. The procreation excuse is not a good reason. Marriage is a symbol of love, not a contract stating that the couple will one day procreate.

I'll add more as soon as I can think of more.

Well, it could be argued that in times past marriage was simply for... convienece rather than love.
But I'd say it can be said that that perception has changed in today's socidety.

As for that agnostic... they certainly got angry quickly.
Sexual preference being something one always doesn't like in a person?
Just because they don't? Not much more than that?
And yet still tries to claim she isn't a homophobe. Amazing.  

[B1g_crunch]

It's all because the church is based on hating people outside of the religious "circle" they create for themselves. They hated blacks, women, foreigners, and now gays. They even hate themselves if they're in different "branches" of christianity. They all make me sick and if there ever were a god I would get popcorn as I watch them all burn in their "hell".  

[Misanthropic Altruist]

KuroFur

Misanthropic Altruist

That agnostic is an idiot.

No one cares what you're opinion is. If you don't like the idea of homosexuality, fine! It's just that you have no right to have your opinion turned into LAW merely because it's your opinion. There is no good reason to prohibit homosexuals from being married. The procreation excuse is not a good reason. Marriage is a symbol of love, not a contract stating that the couple will one day procreate.

I'll add more as soon as I can think of more.

Well, it could be argued that in times past marriage was simply for... convienece rather than love.
But I'd say it can be said that that perception has changed in today's socidety.

I was thinking of putting that in my post, but whether or not that's true has nothing to do with gay marriage.

Quote:

As for that agnostic... they certainly got angry quickly.
Sexual preference being something one always doesn't like in a person?
Just because they don't? Not much more than that?
And yet still tries to claim she isn't a homophobe. Amazing.

It's lunacy really.  

[In Search of a Dream]

KuroFur

Because according to this video, gay marriage will infringe on the rights of everyone else.
"Some people advocating same-sex marraiage have taken it beyond just same sex couples"
"They're taking away my freedom"
"They want to bring the issue into my life"
"I'm part of a New Jersey church group punished by the government because we can't support gay marriage."
I'm thinking that as long as people like this are out there, it's going to be awhile before it's legalized.
Note that they give no explanation as to how it takes away their rights.

The hypocrisy in this video is amazing. They're going to take away your freedom? Just look at the laws today against gay marriage.
It goes on.

(There's also this entertaining parody of the video.
"We'll take the issue beyond same-sex marriage. Like, really far."

I hate the first vid. I find it ironic that they said "rainbow" somewhere towards the end, since that's (I think) the symbol gays use in those campaigns of theirs. You're right, too. The hypocrisy is amazing. I'm still wondering how legalizing gay marriage would entreat on non-gays' lives.  

[PolityOfQueens]

Also, her gay friend is being far too nice on her. If I was him, I wouldn't stand for this s**t.  

[fhbnfghnbfgbsnbg]

Ekeda

Also, her gay friend is being far too nice on her. If I was him, I wouldn't stand for this s**t.

If I may, I see that by your profile comments she has reported you.  

[0UjgJBt3ONkG]

I think that marriage should be left up entirely to religious institutes and completely separate from government. Churches (or whatever) can individually decide to marry people or not, whether gay or straight. Government should just have social contracts between people which should be available to anyone.

But, if they're not going to do this, then yes homosexuals certainly should have a right to be married like anyone else. They shouldn't have social contracts for homosexuals and deny them marriage, even if they get the same benefits, I think it should be everyone or no one as long as government is involved.  

[Lily Shaw]

marriage is about love not gender!!!!!!!  

[Rey96950]

i hate anti gays, i met a bunch of religious freaks, debating against gay marriage(they were my classmates, and i was also debating), and when i saw that, i decided to support it, instead of going for the legalization of capital punishment(i have strong beliefs, to be atheist!), and so it was me, and this one nice girl, against about 6 people...yeah, i gave some solid points, its their lives their choice, how denying them that, is like saying your not allowed to pee in your own toilet, i made them pretty pissed off, and they started saying how gays are disgusting, freaks, and sick in the head, i was ABOUT to stand up, and start shouting, but the girl debating with me stood up(usually shes quiet and happy), she personally called every single one of the anti gay's parents, stupid idiotic dog humpers, and she called every one of those debaters crack addicted marijuana chewers, she then spoke a long list, with a bunch of dates, and popular quotes, about the gays, i dont really remember too much because i was luaghing my butt off the entire time, because of the classes reaction, but she went on for about 30 minutes, and she got the entire class to end up supporting gay marriage, she had a beatiful mind, because she spoke of kindness, feelings, love compassion, and rights, aslo about individuality, and freedom, and family...she touched me, more than any molestor ever could...and she is the reason i stand so strongly alongside gays, im not gay, nor do i ever think i will be, but i do know whats the difference between right, and publicly accepted, let gays be gays, let them marry, and let them have fun, let them do what we ourselves would do, they have every right, and if you dont think like this, well then we are going to have a problem.

darn i ranted again >.>', i have a problem with that  

[Raticiel]

@ KuroFur: I'm an exception, I'm agnostic and it's really hard to make me mad wink as long as you don't hurt animals, then I get wild burning_eyes

Okay, so, onto the topic...

In my very famous country of homophobical president and governement and, sadly, most of the society (but it's slowly changing, slowly but it does), homosexual people have some very harsh life. There's a huge lack of tolerance, even if most of polish people declare themselves tolerant. People are scared, scared of neighbourhood, people at work - it might be the end of the world if they find out. Actually, homophobia is something really hard to fight in places with strong catholic tradition (mostly so-called tradition), and I'm afraid there's no way to let homosexuals get married too soon. It would be a bloody process.

What I mostly want to say is that just, from observing my society I think homophobia lies deep inside that "tradition" and, because of that, in catholicism, but not in religion itself (german evangelist's church approved homosexual marriages, for example). Many homophobic people don't even go to church. They don't really care, but they have to kill the damn (I don't know any english word for insulting gays so I use the original) "pedal", "ciota" or something like this.

Of course there is a correspondence between all great-religions-from-the-east (christianity, islam...) and fighting off homosexuality, I don't know any source of it, sadly (I mean a greater reason than holy books preachings). I think islam has a better explanation for it's homophobia, as I recall chatting with my friend's husband who is from Afganistan, it comes more from their idea of human nature and the role of a female. It's obviously just a dogmatic trash, but it was, like, more interesting.

The only reasonable idea for forbidding homosexualism is the continental philosophy, stating that human nature is so damn full of holes and in order to not be sinful you should do sex only for procreation, but you do it only for the benefit of becoming "better" or "stronger", stuff like this. All others are way too dumb to mention.

On the other hand we have gender theory of paternalism, which is always sided with monotheistic religions. (the idea of father-god and situation of women and stuff) (got to search for that author and her book sweatdrop )

And now, onto the marriage - I'm all agreed with most people here. But the real problem is adoption. It would need a mayor change in society in order to make those adopted kid's life go without problems...

Personally: I'm against marriage in general. But that's just me wink  

[=X-Sparker + AquaKiller=]

Raticiel

...and I'm afraid there's no way to let homosexuals get married too soon. It would be a bloody process.

Yes, indeed it will be. Look at all the precedents before it fighting for similar (in the discriminatory sense) causes: Martin Luther King Jr, Abraham Lincoln, Harvey Milk, Gandhi, etc. Notice what's common about them? They were all fighting again discrimination, and they were all assassinated.

Raticiel

What I mostly want to say is that just, from observing my society I think homophobia lies deep inside that "tradition" and, because of that, in catholicism, but not in religion itself (german evangelist's church approved homosexual marriages, for example). Many homophobic people don't even go to church. They don't really care, but they have to kill the damn (I don't know any english word for insulting gays so I use the original) "pedal", "ciota" or something like this.

True, most homophobes rarely even read their own sacred text. Because if they did, they would be a lot less homophobic and religious.

Raticiel

The only reasonable idea for forbidding homosexualism is the continental philosophy, stating that human nature is so damn full of holes and in order to not be sinful you should do sex only for procreation, but you do it only for the benefit of becoming "better" or "stronger", stuff like this. All others are way too dumb to mention.

But even this idea is completely flawed. If they say that humans should only have sex for procreation, then they wouldn't condemn sex before marriage since marriage, by this idea, is virtually pointless. Right? More sex, more babies, the merrier? (this is what this idea is basically saying.) Then... why would they condemn sex orgies? Also, wouldn't we have to condemn all the married couples who voluntarily decide not to have children, or can no longer bear children anymore?

Raticiel

And now, onto the marriage - I'm all agreed with most people here. But the real problem is adoption. It would need a mayor change in society in order to make those adopted kid's life go without problems...

Personally: I'm against marriage in general. But that's just me wink

Actually, adopted kids of same-sex couples have fairly normal lives that differ little from heterosexual couples. A number of professional organizations (such as the American Psychological Association and the American Medical Association) have performed studies that showed there is no evidence that same-sex parenting would cause harm in children's health and mental growth, except that same-sex couples' children are more likely to be accepting of LGBT people. Now, of course, they also cited that social prejudice may cause harm to the gays' and lesbians' mindset, but still there is no evidence to suggest that the children will suffer from troubled lives...

I understand why you would be against marriage. In fact, some homosexual couples have gotten up and over it, saying that "marriage is too low for their leagues." After all, heterosexual marriages can get just as ugly as homophobia.

 

[G4NTZ]

Why the hell would you want to get married anyway? Why not just live together? Even have a celebration for the happyness that's comes from your relationship or something like that. Why have a religious ceremony when the religion is against you?  

[PolityOfQueens]

G4NTZ

Why the hell would you want to get married anyway? Why not just live together? Even have a celebration for the happyness that's comes from your relationship or something like that. Why have a religious ceremony when the religion is against you?

This assumes that marriage is (and should be) a religious ceremony.