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 Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:56 pm
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Underworld Priestess XxrationalsexybitchxX Underworld Priestess Depending on who you ask there is a difference. A ghost is someone who has passed on and is "stuck" between the physical world and the Afterlife. They do not cross through The Light to go on to the Afterlife, but stick around in this "netherworld" for one reason or another. A spirit is a person who has passed on, but has actually gone through The Light and into the Afterlife. There they go through a life review learning process, and after that, are able to come and go between the Afterlife and our physical world. A spirit can also be defined as the "breath" of the soul. Spirits come back to watch over us, and to comfort us. Ghosts do not. I have a few questions to ask, based upon this post: 1) How do you know that a ghost is a 'someone' and not a 'something'? 2) How do you know there is an Afterlife? 3)Do you know 'spirits' "pass on"? 4) Have you yourself seen one of these spirits or recorded any evidence of their presence? 5) How do you know ghosts are stuck "in between" ?...whatever that means. I mean, these are quite a few assumptions that may seem a bit presumptuous in my opinion. Thank you. I have worked with the spirit world and ghosts and studied such for a long time (I'd say about 20 years at this point) and yes I have recorded evidence of their presence and my statements, for the most part, are based off of evidence that I have uncovered. YOU do not have to believe it since it is MY opinion and belief. Just like the Afterlife is based on my belief. No one can prove that there is an Afterlife. Do NOT misconstrue my words as statements of fact and do NOT insult me or else I will no longer answer your questions. From the evidence I have gathered ghost are "stuck" in a sort of limbo between our world and the Afterlife. This can be called the spirit world or the Otherworld, depending on who you ask. I view spirits as beings that can be of a human or inhuman nature or they can be nature spirits (fairies). This is a topic that has been discussed in many paranormal circles and it is not a theory that I alone hold. If you want me to post a different theory on spirits vs. ghosts... This is an excerpt from an interview with Hans Holzer, who is famous in the paranormal community. "We talked about the difference between a ghost or a spirit – how a ghost is a residual entity, like a psychic imprint left in an area that some people can pick up, whereas a spirit is intelligent and interactive. Holzer also mentioned a third category I hadn’t heard about before: the “stay behinds.” See, topics in the paranormal are theories, don't take them as anything else. And before you say, "well you didn't make it clear in your post that it is just your theory!" I did start off my posts saying it depends on who you asks, hence it is a theory.
Certainly. Actually, hypothesis would be the accurate term. And,when did I insult you, personally? I do not make ad hominems. I was merely stating that these claims were a bit presumptuous... regardless of where or whom they come from. It just seems a bit intellectually dishonest from certain individuals presenting an expertise if they cannot put their hypotheses to the test of science and experiments and so forth. Some may have, others may have not.
The so called afterlife or Otherworld is not something that can be measured, and I will concede with you on this, as I myself think there may be another dimension of sorts which has not yet been properly detected.
Your beliefs are yours alone, same applies to other who hold the same notions. I am not trying to misconstrue anything, I am merely asking for precision and clarity...not just guess-work. |
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:39 pm
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:08 pm
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Underworld Priestess Actually, no. It is a theory because it is a set of ideas to explain something, in this case the differences between a ghost and a spirit. It is not a hypothesis because you are not setting it up for a scientific evaluation. As I have said, I am not alone in my theory and it came about through years of research and deductive reasoning. Scientifically a majority of paranormal research is focused on proving that ghosts exist at all and why they are here. This theory is not dishonest and not just guess work. What I take offense to is you calling it dishonest, presumptious guess work. This is not exactly a paranormal topic that can just be proven, even with some EVPs that would agree with this theory. I haven't kept a record of all my sources over the years and it would be impossible to trace it all back.
Hypothesis: a proposition, or set of propositions, set forth as an explanation for the occurrence of some specified group of phenomena, either asserted merely as a provisional conjecture to guide investigation (working hypothesis) or accepted as highly probable in the light of established facts.
Theory:a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena.
It is dishonest to add on extra conclusions to the gathered data, instead of just stating what it is you picked up, people tend to say that it's a person, or a non-human entity like a 'fairy'. How about not attaching the extra emotional, added-on rubbish to the research?
And if it cannot be neither proven nor falsified, then we should find a better way of explaining it that is in accordance with what we know about the laws of nature and physics. For these phenomena, as far as many scientists are concerned can only occur within the world of matter, energy, atoms, etc. |
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:32 pm
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:47 pm
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XxrationalsexybitchxX Underworld Priestess Actually, no. It is a theory because it is a set of ideas to explain something, in this case the differences between a ghost and a spirit. It is not a hypothesis because you are not setting it up for a scientific evaluation. As I have said, I am not alone in my theory and it came about through years of research and deductive reasoning. Scientifically a majority of paranormal research is focused on proving that ghosts exist at all and why they are here. This theory is not dishonest and not just guess work. What I take offense to is you calling it dishonest, presumptious guess work. This is not exactly a paranormal topic that can just be proven, even with some EVPs that would agree with this theory. I haven't kept a record of all my sources over the years and it would be impossible to trace it all back.
Theory:a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena.It is dishonest to add on extra conclusions to the gathered data, instead of just stating what it is you picked up, people tend to say that it's a person, or a non-human entity like a 'fairy'. How about not attaching the extra emotional, added-on rubbish to the research? And if it cannot be neither proven nor falsified, then we should find a better way of explaining it that is in accordance with what we know about the laws of nature and physics. For these phenomena, as far as many scientists are concerned can only occur within the world of matter, energy, atoms, etc.
Excuse me but it is not rubbish and I don't appreciate your attack on my intelligence. The dictionary definiton of theory is a proposed idea to explain something. Where did you get your definitions because according to the dictionary my statement that it is a theory is suitable.
And not everything supernatural or paranormal has been explained by science yet. |
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:58 pm
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:01 pm
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Underworld Priestess Vanilla eXee Underworld Priestess Actually, no. It is a theory because it is a set of ideas to explain something, in this case the differences between a ghost and a spirit. It is not a hypothesis because you are not setting it up for a scientific evaluation. As I have said, I am not alone in my theory and it came about through years of research and deductive reasoning. Scientifically a majority of paranormal research is focused on proving that ghosts exist at all and why they are here. This theory is not dishonest and not just guess work. What I take offense to is you calling it dishonest, presumptious guess work. This is not exactly a paranormal topic that can just be proven, even with some EVPs that would agree with this theory. I haven't kept a record of all my sources over the years and it would be impossible to trace it all back.
^^ could you give us some examples of your work?Which work do you mean? My studies and those who I have gathered information from? Bc I already said that would be rough to go back through it all after putting together so many years of research. I could give you a few names of people whose books I have read, number 1 being Hans Holzer. Or do you mean what I have officially published? Which my published books are on haunted locations and spirit and ghost communication. Although in all honesty I am tired of getting beaten around with this discussion especially since other people have posted their opinions as well. So if you want to learn more about this theory it is rather common and can be found elsewhere on the internet.
None of that, I meant could you share some of your experiences? It would help shed some light on the why of your theory, since this guild is mainly about our beliefs and personal experiences. 3nodding |
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:25 pm
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:19 pm
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:16 pm
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:28 pm
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Underworld Priestess neko-mata-01 Underworld Priestess Depending on who you ask there is a difference. A ghost is someone who has passed on and is "stuck" between the physical world and the Afterlife. They do not cross through The Light to go on to the Afterlife, but stick around in this "netherworld" for one reason or another. A spirit is a person who has passed on, but has actually gone through The Light and into the Afterlife. There they go through a life review learning process, and after that, are able to come and go between the Afterlife and our physical world. A spirit can also be defined as the "breath" of the soul. Spirits come back to watch over us, and to comfort us. Ghosts do not. so then what would you call non human entities ? Well to put it simply - ghosts stay and don't always know that they are dead. Spirits can cross over and come back. Therefore I view inhuman and nature entities as also being spirits because they can cross inbetween worlds.
what i meant is that in your original statement you said "A spirit is a person who has passed on” which would imply the are both human and were once alive. then you said "ghosts stay and don't always know that they are dead. Spirits can cross over and come back.” first of all im not sure why you included this statement since it seems quite irrelevant to my question sweatdrop
second if those are you clear definitions of the two. how would you personally define a non human entity that cannot travel between worlds?
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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:02 am
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neko-mata-01 Underworld Priestess neko-mata-01 Underworld Priestess Depending on who you ask there is a difference. A ghost is someone who has passed on and is "stuck" between the physical world and the Afterlife. They do not cross through The Light to go on to the Afterlife, but stick around in this "netherworld" for one reason or another. A spirit is a person who has passed on, but has actually gone through The Light and into the Afterlife. There they go through a life review learning process, and after that, are able to come and go between the Afterlife and our physical world. A spirit can also be defined as the "breath" of the soul. Spirits come back to watch over us, and to comfort us. Ghosts do not. so then what would you call non human entities ? Well to put it simply - ghosts stay and don't always know that they are dead. Spirits can cross over and come back. Therefore I view inhuman and nature entities as also being spirits because they can cross inbetween worlds. what i meant is that in your original statement you said "A spirit is a person who has passed on” which would imply the are both human and were once alive. then you said "ghosts stay and don't always know that they are dead. Spirits can cross over and come back.” first of all im not sure why you included this statement since it seems quite irrelevant to my question sweatdrop second if those are you clear definitions of the two. how would you personally define a non human entity that cannot travel between worlds? etc
Well first off, my original post was based on the differences between human ghosts and spirits because that seemed to be what the original question was asking. Secondly, I said this, "ghosts stay and don't always know that they are dead. Spirits can cross over and come back.” to point out that I find spirits to be beings that can cross over. From the way your first question was worded it seemed as if you were asking if I thought non-human beings were ghosts or spirits (which is not the first time I would have heard such a question). Therefore my answer was that they are spirits. So as for my own definition of a non-human entity - they are entities or creatures that were not born in our world and were never living in our world. I think that any non-human entity can travel between worlds, whether on their own free will or from being summoned. However, when they are in our world they still reside on a separate plane of existence which is why we cannot always seem them. Now, I do break the definition down further and tend to only refer to shadow people and lower astral entities as non-human beings. I categorize nature spirits, banshees, animal spirits, etc as being separate.
As for non-human hauntings they are hauntings that have events that are not like what one would encounter during an haunting involving someone who was once living. Which would be EVPs with strange tones that are different from "regular" EVPs. Shadows being caught on camera instead of a figure that is transparent or misty.
I think that is enough of a summary to cover your question. |
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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:19 am
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Underworld Priestess neko-mata-01 Underworld Priestess neko-mata-01 Underworld Priestess Depending on who you ask there is a difference. A ghost is someone who has passed on and is "stuck" between the physical world and the Afterlife. They do not cross through The Light to go on to the Afterlife, but stick around in this "netherworld" for one reason or another. A spirit is a person who has passed on, but has actually gone through The Light and into the Afterlife. There they go through a life review learning process, and after that, are able to come and go between the Afterlife and our physical world. A spirit can also be defined as the "breath" of the soul. Spirits come back to watch over us, and to comfort us. Ghosts do not. so then what would you call non human entities ? Well to put it simply - ghosts stay and don't always know that they are dead. Spirits can cross over and come back. Therefore I view inhuman and nature entities as also being spirits because they can cross inbetween worlds. what i meant is that in your original statement you said "A spirit is a person who has passed on” which would imply the are both human and were once alive. then you said "ghosts stay and don't always know that they are dead. Spirits can cross over and come back.” first of all im not sure why you included this statement since it seems quite irrelevant to my question sweatdrop second if those are you clear definitions of the two. how would you personally define a non human entity that cannot travel between worlds? etc Well first off, my original post was based on the differences between human ghosts and spirits because that seemed to be what the original question was asking. Secondly, I said this, "ghosts stay and don't always know that they are dead. Spirits can cross over and come back.” to point out that I find spirits to be beings that can cross over. From the way your first question was worded it seemed as if you were asking if I thought non-human beings were ghosts or spirits (which is not the first time I would have heard such a question). Therefore my answer was that they are spirits. So as for my own definition of a non-human entity - they are entities or creatures that were not born in our world and were never living in our world. I think that any non-human entity can travel between worlds, whether on their own free will or from being summoned. However, when they are in our world they still reside on a separate plane of existence which is why we cannot always seem them. Now, I do break the definition down further and tend to only refer to shadow people and lower astral entities as non-human beings. I categorize nature spirits, banshees, animal spirits, etc as being separate. As for non-human hauntings they are hauntings that have events that are not like what one would encounter during an haunting involving someone who was once living. Which would be EVPs with strange tones that are different from "regular" EVPs. Shadows being caught on camera instead of a figure that is transparent or misty. I think that is enough of a summary to cover your question.
hm ok. i just really wanted to see how you personally categorize things ^^
(personally i would categorize them a bit differently so i wanted to really hear your opinion) |
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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:47 pm
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XxrationalsexybitchxX I have a few questions to ask, based upon this post: 1) How do you know that a ghost is a 'someone' and not a 'something'? 2) How do you know there is an Afterlife? 3)Do you know 'spirits' "pass on"? 4) Have you yourself seen one of these spirits or recorded any evidence of their presence? 5) How do you know ghosts are stuck "in between" ?...whatever that means. I mean, these are quite a few assumptions that may seem a bit presumptuous in my opinion. Thank you.
heart heart heart
1. Well, if you can speak with ghosts, you might be able to ask it. Some people commune with ghosts or spirits easily, others have to train themselves with lots of practice. I think to a degree, anyone could do it. 4laugh
2. If you can journey there now and see for yourself, gateways, divination, scrying.
3. That all depends on what you believe. Some people believe that spirits move on to a sort of vacation world, where they relax and rest before being reincarnated. Some call this place Summerland. There are other names for it too .... sweatdrop
4. When I see spirits, I guess I record them through journals.
5. I haven't ran into too many ghosts per se, more spirit wise. So I have no idea. |
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