Draw muhammad day

[brainnsoup]

Captain_Shinzo

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Captain_Shinzo

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Captain_Shinzo

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But it doesn't actually accomplish anything, let alone fight extremism.
I don't really care who wants to participate in "Draw Muhammad Day", but it's idiotic to pretend that participating is doing anything righteous.
If Thunderf00t wants to fight extremism, I'm completely willing to donate money to send him to Pakistan with his tasteful "*****" flag and a switchblade.

Also, it definitely is attacking Islam. Most Muslims agree that it's wrong to portray Muhammad. Does that mean that it should be illegal to do so? No. Does that mean we should refrain from portraying him out of fear? No. Does that mean we should avoid portraying him just to be offensive? If we have an ounce of respect for Muslims, probably, yeah.
Drawing Muhammad doesn't show that we're courageous, just the opposite.
Because honestly, how many of those extremists do you think are going to be checking youtube or facebook or, hell, the GAU on Gaia?
I guess, put yourself in the shoes of a Muslim American and think of how isolated and disrespected you would feel.

The point is that people shouldn't be limited to do something just because of another's beliefs.
That would be like saying pork would become illegal because of Judaism and Islam. The problem was South Park having to be restricted to what it posted and everyone was made that only Muslims care for famous things portraying Muhammad more than an average joe. It's not the point OF showing of Muhammad, but who and why it pisses people off.

If I was an American Muslim, I wouldn't even think drawing Muhammad was bad in the first place no matter what. It just wouldn't fit. However, EVEN IF I did think that way, I wouldn't have a problem with it because I'M not the one drawing him.

Actually, from the current events that take place and those WHO DO watch Thunderf00t, it does do something. IT proves that because someone does something they don't like, they can't and shouldn't do something to stop them.
In short, the cause to do this is greater than the reason to not draw Muhammad. You would be surprised on how many extremists hang out on the internet and how much the internet effects big corporations.

If you think that you wouldn't be offended by "Draw Muhammad Day", let alone "*****", if you were Muslim, you don't know much about Islam.
It's not playfully poking fun at Islam. It's bullying Muslims by doing the most offensive thing possible.
I don't care if a few teens get to feel rebellious, it's childish.
I really don't mean to have a "holier than thou" attitude about this, but I really don't understand why people think this is a good thing.
I don't get what's wrong with religious tolerance or basic respect.

Like I said, we shouldn't refrain from portraying Muhammad out of fear.
I don't agree with Muslims who think that everyone else should follow Islam's rules. I support free speech.
But is this really how we should use it? Is this how we want to show people that we can handle that freedom?
Really, how is this any better than people standing on street-corners with "GOD HATES GAYS" or "OBAMA IS A COMMUNIST" signs?
I support their right to free speech too, but it's sad that that's how they use it.

And about South Park, they do what they do to piss people off and get a reaction. No different than Carlos Mencia or, what's her name, Lisa Lampanelli or something like that. Or Sarah Silverman, but she's actually really funny...
It's shock value. For press.
What makes me laugh is that then everyone is surprised when they uncover death threats from some crazy nobody. Really South Park?

Hrm, crazy death threats from nobodies?
As I recall, many Muslim extremists exist on the internet and, usually when your life is threatened, half the time you will be dead. Death threats by Muslims is treated seriously because it is usually serious. I mean, yeah this isn't the first time this has happened and all but those times also were serious. I'm just saying, some people have connections and others don't.
Some are serious, others are not.

Alright then, but the point isn't that Muslims are the intent of being offended. Infact, some Muslims have even joined in. The point is that people shouldn't be silenced because of another's beliefs no matter how much "religious tolerance" someone has. Speaking of religious tolerance, I can't say I will accept it when the majority has. >_>
Quite frankly, religious tolerance is a choice, I should have the freedom to post Muhammad if I want to just as I should if I want to eat pork.

There is no other way to use it. The reason seems bad when blurred but if you shine it abit, it's not so ugly.

South Park does thoughs things to make the ugly simply understandable and hilarious like Kanye West.

You're telling me that half of the death threats made on the internet result in death. Do you want to rewrite that?
Because I don't know about you, but if I took 10% of the death threats I got on the internet seriously, I wouldn't leave the house.
And, wow, death threats should be treated more seriously if they're made by Muslims? I hope that was a typo too.
And yes, crazy nobodies. Or can you tell me that you'd heard of RevoluntionMuslim.com before the episode? Can you even tell me where in their threat they actually threaten the writers? I mean, where they actually say that they intend to kill them? And it doesn't astound you that this is obviously the most serious threat that South Park could dig up? Or do you really not believe that they were seeking press?

If you don't respect theists, why should they respect you?
I enjoy people respecting my choices.
If there's any religion I have a personal bias against, it's Christianity.
Christianity has done far worse to restrict the rights of others in the US than Islam.
And still, I have yet to start "Burn a Bible" day.

And for the record, I would have thought that Kanye West was a douchebag with or without South Park.

No no no no...you misread that...
Half death threats are SERIOUS, or intended. Doesn't mean it always goes through or, even done or done correctly for that matter.

Not exactly what I was saying....more as to the majority of todays wide-ranged death threats are by Muslim extremists. Doesn't mean every death threat is by a Muslim. :S

It is none that in the letter, they proposed their death to be as was a movie writer. In such case, either it is by some person who knows s**t OR could have connections. The fact that the threat related to the fate of another man from before brings suspicions because the murderer was never known exactly, only for the fact that he was a Muslim extremist working in a group of people.

I'm not just going to ASSUME that South Park does things just for the glossy press, I will, however, assume that they are getting stingy and poor at it, however. Fact of the matter is, reasons for why South Park does what it does is not exactly the matter and even if it was, there is no way to know unless we asked them ourselves.

Actually, it is more of if Theists don't respect ME, why should I respect them? Why should MY lifestyle be the concern of another for any reason and why should they bump into my life to try and change it? If this is the case, why should Muslim Extremists bump into the life of South Park to try and change what they want to do?

Point I'm trying to make is, it isn't Islam or Muslims in general we are getting at, but the very idea of a few of them wanting to censor something at their own expense for no reason. I mean, Muhammad wasn't even shown that day.
Buddha snorted coke on the episode for Christs sake that day, but when Muhammad even is mention or spoken of, even speaks himself, people get a fit?




P.S. The episode sparked when a lot of censorship was going around Comedy Central lately so they wanted to try and say
"Hey, we can do a lot more ******** up s**t then what your censoring and it abides to our contract!"
Now, should people draw Muhammad where-ever?
Probably not.
But should they be allowed to?
YES!

Again, I've gotten death threats over the internet. Never have I once even thought that the person even intended to kill me.
It's part of the anonymity of the internet. People can say whatever they want with no fear of the consequences.
And they never actually threatened them. They made vaguely threatening remarks. They say it was a warning. I see it as somewhere in between. Not once though did I believe they actually intended to do anything. But for something found in a forum of nobodies on the internet, it got blown way out of proportion.

Do you watch South Park? They're getting stale. They could only make Micheal Jackson and Paris Hilton jokes for so long.
And when you rely on shock value for jokes, people get over it.
The fact that they're desperate for attention definitely is the point. If I saw the incriminating post without all of the publicity, I probably would have simply rolled my eyes, much in the way I rolled my eyes at Thunderf00t's videos, or his fans calling people who objected "Muslim pigs".

But again, people should be allowed to use freedom of speech how they want.
That doesn't mean they should use it however they want.  

[Captain_Shinzo]

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Captain_Shinzo

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Captain_Shinzo

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If you think that you wouldn't be offended by "Draw Muhammad Day", let alone "*****", if you were Muslim, you don't know much about Islam.
It's not playfully poking fun at Islam. It's bullying Muslims by doing the most offensive thing possible.
I don't care if a few teens get to feel rebellious, it's childish.
I really don't mean to have a "holier than thou" attitude about this, but I really don't understand why people think this is a good thing.
I don't get what's wrong with religious tolerance or basic respect.

Like I said, we shouldn't refrain from portraying Muhammad out of fear.
I don't agree with Muslims who think that everyone else should follow Islam's rules. I support free speech.
But is this really how we should use it? Is this how we want to show people that we can handle that freedom?
Really, how is this any better than people standing on street-corners with "GOD HATES GAYS" or "OBAMA IS A COMMUNIST" signs?
I support their right to free speech too, but it's sad that that's how they use it.

And about South Park, they do what they do to piss people off and get a reaction. No different than Carlos Mencia or, what's her name, Lisa Lampanelli or something like that. Or Sarah Silverman, but she's actually really funny...
It's shock value. For press.
What makes me laugh is that then everyone is surprised when they uncover death threats from some crazy nobody. Really South Park?

Hrm, crazy death threats from nobodies?
As I recall, many Muslim extremists exist on the internet and, usually when your life is threatened, half the time you will be dead. Death threats by Muslims is treated seriously because it is usually serious. I mean, yeah this isn't the first time this has happened and all but those times also were serious. I'm just saying, some people have connections and others don't.
Some are serious, others are not.

Alright then, but the point isn't that Muslims are the intent of being offended. Infact, some Muslims have even joined in. The point is that people shouldn't be silenced because of another's beliefs no matter how much "religious tolerance" someone has. Speaking of religious tolerance, I can't say I will accept it when the majority has. >_>
Quite frankly, religious tolerance is a choice, I should have the freedom to post Muhammad if I want to just as I should if I want to eat pork.

There is no other way to use it. The reason seems bad when blurred but if you shine it abit, it's not so ugly.

South Park does thoughs things to make the ugly simply understandable and hilarious like Kanye West.

You're telling me that half of the death threats made on the internet result in death. Do you want to rewrite that?
Because I don't know about you, but if I took 10% of the death threats I got on the internet seriously, I wouldn't leave the house.
And, wow, death threats should be treated more seriously if they're made by Muslims? I hope that was a typo too.
And yes, crazy nobodies. Or can you tell me that you'd heard of RevoluntionMuslim.com before the episode? Can you even tell me where in their threat they actually threaten the writers? I mean, where they actually say that they intend to kill them? And it doesn't astound you that this is obviously the most serious threat that South Park could dig up? Or do you really not believe that they were seeking press?

If you don't respect theists, why should they respect you?
I enjoy people respecting my choices.
If there's any religion I have a personal bias against, it's Christianity.
Christianity has done far worse to restrict the rights of others in the US than Islam.
And still, I have yet to start "Burn a Bible" day.

And for the record, I would have thought that Kanye West was a douchebag with or without South Park.

No no no no...you misread that...
Half death threats are SERIOUS, or intended. Doesn't mean it always goes through or, even done or done correctly for that matter.

Not exactly what I was saying....more as to the majority of todays wide-ranged death threats are by Muslim extremists. Doesn't mean every death threat is by a Muslim. :S

It is none that in the letter, they proposed their death to be as was a movie writer. In such case, either it is by some person who knows s**t OR could have connections. The fact that the threat related to the fate of another man from before brings suspicions because the murderer was never known exactly, only for the fact that he was a Muslim extremist working in a group of people.

I'm not just going to ASSUME that South Park does things just for the glossy press, I will, however, assume that they are getting stingy and poor at it, however. Fact of the matter is, reasons for why South Park does what it does is not exactly the matter and even if it was, there is no way to know unless we asked them ourselves.

Actually, it is more of if Theists don't respect ME, why should I respect them? Why should MY lifestyle be the concern of another for any reason and why should they bump into my life to try and change it? If this is the case, why should Muslim Extremists bump into the life of South Park to try and change what they want to do?

Point I'm trying to make is, it isn't Islam or Muslims in general we are getting at, but the very idea of a few of them wanting to censor something at their own expense for no reason. I mean, Muhammad wasn't even shown that day.
Buddha snorted coke on the episode for Christs sake that day, but when Muhammad even is mention or spoken of, even speaks himself, people get a fit?




P.S. The episode sparked when a lot of censorship was going around Comedy Central lately so they wanted to try and say
"Hey, we can do a lot more ******** up s**t then what your censoring and it abides to our contract!"
Now, should people draw Muhammad where-ever?
Probably not.
But should they be allowed to?
YES!

Again, I've gotten death threats over the internet. Never have I once even thought that the person even intended to kill me.
It's part of the anonymity of the internet. People can say whatever they want with no fear of the consequences.
And they never actually threatened them. They made vaguely threatening remarks. They say it was a warning. I see it as somewhere in between. Not once though did I believe they actually intended to do anything. But for something found in a forum of nobodies on the internet, it got blown way out of proportion.

Do you watch South Park? They're getting stale. They could only make Micheal Jackson and Paris Hilton jokes for so long.
And when you rely on shock value for jokes, people get over it.
The fact that they're desperate for attention definitely is the point. If I saw the incriminating post without all of the publicity, I probably would have simply rolled my eyes, much in the way I rolled my eyes at Thunderf00t's videos, or his fans calling people who objected "Muslim pigs".

But again, people should be allowed to use freedom of speech how they want.
That doesn't mean they should use it however they want.

Well, it would be easier to use death threats on to those who aren't infamous. People do use death threats and half the time are intentional, but are only carried out when things become critical.

As said, I know South Park is getting stale with their jokes considering nothing new has happened for them that they could do. That's what happens when there is no news.
Think of what would happen to the Colbert Report if the News Channels were down for two weeks, it would die.
So works with South Park, nothing in life is happening as is the jokes.

The same thing can be said for the practices of religion.  

[Iconoclast Enthusiast]

brainnsoup

chemos32o8

brainnsoup

Is this guy for real?
I'm all about free speech, and even though I think it's tasteless to draw Muhammad just to be offensive, I'm not a Muslim and couldn't care less how you choose to portray him.
But this guy needs to find a tall building and jump from it. >_<
He obviously knows nothing about Islam and is using the actions of extremists as justification to spread as much hate as possible.

Is there something you do know about islam? Would you please let us know why we shouldn't unite against the extremist? or do you feel we should back down and let them have their way and let our freedom of speech be compromised by fear?

Yes. Murder is a huge sin in Islam. Obviously anyone with a sign saying anything like "Butcher those who insult Islam!" isn't a good Muslim. The people in this video are obviously twisted extremists. So it was both lazy and stupid of him to pretend that they in any way represent Islam.
But please explain to me how drawing Muhammad has anything to do with uniting against extremists though. Or even how it accomplishes anything other than offending a few Muslims who get involved. Not backing down to threats is one thing. Intentionally antagonizing any Muslim you can is a different thing entirely.

Murder may be a sin, but they are commanded to kill any nonbelievers and especially blasphemers. Not to mention, the majority of Muslims DO support those extremists ideals. Just look to the countries with the highest Muslim populations, where they stone adulterers and "witches", promote ***** in the marriage of extremely young girls to adult men, hang homosexuals, repress sexuality to an extremely unhealthy degree, and force rape victims to MARRY their rapists (or kill her if they decide it was her fault).

Thunderf00t isn't trying to antagonize, he's part of a protest of censorship in which he and many others (including me) declare that we will not be silent on this subject or any other, and no one gets a free pass to make DEATH THREATS and otherwise promote violence just because something offends them.

brainnsoup

Does that mean we should avoid portraying him just to be offensive? If we have an ounce of respect for Muslims, probably, yeah.

Respect is not a given but is earned, and the majority of Muslims have yet to earn the respect of civilized society.

By the way, here's my drawing. wink  

[brainnsoup]

@Shinzo: Meh, celebrity's get death threats all the time. Haha, if you don't believe me, make a thread about Hannah Montana in one of the forums and see how many people say they're going to kill her.

The way I see it, at this point South Park is like a slutty girl at a party. She walks in, makes some noise, gets a bunch of attention. Then people get sick of her. It's only a matter of time before she starts screeching about how wasted she is and removing clothing.
Right now South Park has lost her top and is making out with some drunk girl on a table.
And how long before people get sick of that?

Question the Answer

brainnsoup

chemos32o8

brainnsoup

Is this guy for real?
I'm all about free speech, and even though I think it's tasteless to draw Muhammad just to be offensive, I'm not a Muslim and couldn't care less how you choose to portray him.
But this guy needs to find a tall building and jump from it. >_<
He obviously knows nothing about Islam and is using the actions of extremists as justification to spread as much hate as possible.

Is there something you do know about islam? Would you please let us know why we shouldn't unite against the extremist? or do you feel we should back down and let them have their way and let our freedom of speech be compromised by fear?

Yes. Murder is a huge sin in Islam. Obviously anyone with a sign saying anything like "Butcher those who insult Islam!" isn't a good Muslim. The people in this video are obviously twisted extremists. So it was both lazy and stupid of him to pretend that they in any way represent Islam.
But please explain to me how drawing Muhammad has anything to do with uniting against extremists though. Or even how it accomplishes anything other than offending a few Muslims who get involved. Not backing down to threats is one thing. Intentionally antagonizing any Muslim you can is a different thing entirely.

Murder may be a sin, but they are commanded to kill any nonbelievers and especially blasphemers. Not to mention, the majority of Muslims DO support those extremists ideals. Just look to the countries with the highest Muslim populations, where they stone adulterers and "witches", promote ***** in the marriage of extremely young girls to adult men, hang homosexuals, repress sexuality to an extremely unhealthy degree, and force rape victims to MARRY their rapists (or kill her if they decide it was her fault).

Pick up a bible. Deuteronomy tells us to mercilessly kill people who invite us to worship Pagan gods. That means it's in the Bible and the Torah. It's also in the Bible that if a man rapes a woman, he has to pay her father a certain amount and has to marry her. That's where it comes from. It made sense in Biblical times because a woman who wasn't a virgin was hard to marry, and an unmarried woman had no way to support herself. But later on the Puritans used it to force women into marriage. But it doesn't mean we should have an irrational fear of everyone who follows an Abrahamic religion.
Yeah, there are undeveloped parts of the world that practice fundamentalism in extremes, but they don't represent Islam. >_>
Like I said, murder is the one thing that a Muslim can do that their God will never forgive them for.

Quote:

Thunderf00t isn't trying to antagonize, he's part of a protest of censorship in which he and many others (including me) declare that we will not be silent on this subject or any other, and no one gets a free pass to make DEATH THREATS and otherwise promote violence just because something offends them.

Thunderf00t is an idiot. He doesn't know a damn thing about Islam.
Not only is he preaching hate and intolerance, but he's preaching hate and intolerance about something he doesn't understand.
If Thunderf00t is liberating us from people trying to censor us, the Westboro Baptist Church is liberating us from imorality and witchcraft from the gays and the atheists.
Hate is hate, I don't care who's preaching it.

Quote:

brainnsoup

Does that mean we should avoid portraying him just to be offensive? If we have an ounce of respect for Muslims, probably, yeah.

Respect is not a given but is earned, and the majority of Muslims have yet to earn the respect of civilized society.

By the way, here's my drawing. wink

The majority of Muslims don't deserve respect?
I'm willing to bet you don't know anything about Islam either.
Pick up a book, then talk to me.  

[Yur-Yur Yuri]

Joined the facebook page, and drew Mo.



Did anyone else draw a pretty picture to piss off Muslims? ;3  

[Iconoclast Enthusiast]

brainnsoup

@Shinzo: Meh, celebrity's get death threats all the time. Haha, if you don't believe me, make a thread about Hannah Montana in one of the forums and see how many people say they're going to kill her.

The way I see it, at this point South Park is like a slutty girl at a party. She walks in, makes some noise, gets a bunch of attention. Then people get sick of her. It's only a matter of time before she starts screeching about how wasted she is and removing clothing.
Right now South Park has lost her top and is making out with some drunk girl on a table.
And how long before people get sick of that?

Question the Answer

brainnsoup

chemos32o8

brainnsoup

Is this guy for real?
I'm all about free speech, and even though I think it's tasteless to draw Muhammad just to be offensive, I'm not a Muslim and couldn't care less how you choose to portray him.
But this guy needs to find a tall building and jump from it. >_<
He obviously knows nothing about Islam and is using the actions of extremists as justification to spread as much hate as possible.

Is there something you do know about islam? Would you please let us know why we shouldn't unite against the extremist? or do you feel we should back down and let them have their way and let our freedom of speech be compromised by fear?

Yes. Murder is a huge sin in Islam. Obviously anyone with a sign saying anything like "Butcher those who insult Islam!" isn't a good Muslim. The people in this video are obviously twisted extremists. So it was both lazy and stupid of him to pretend that they in any way represent Islam.
But please explain to me how drawing Muhammad has anything to do with uniting against extremists though. Or even how it accomplishes anything other than offending a few Muslims who get involved. Not backing down to threats is one thing. Intentionally antagonizing any Muslim you can is a different thing entirely.

Murder may be a sin, but they are commanded to kill any nonbelievers and especially blasphemers. Not to mention, the majority of Muslims DO support those extremists ideals. Just look to the countries with the highest Muslim populations, where they stone adulterers and "witches", promote ***** in the marriage of extremely young girls to adult men, hang homosexuals, repress sexuality to an extremely unhealthy degree, and force rape victims to MARRY their rapists (or kill her if they decide it was her fault).

Pick up a bible. Deuteronomy tells us to mercilessly kill people who invite us to worship Pagan gods. That means it's in the Bible and the Torah. It's also in the Bible that if a man rapes a woman, he has to pay her father a certain amount and has to marry her. That's where it comes from. It made sense in Biblical times because a woman who wasn't a virgin was hard to marry, and an unmarried woman had no way to support herself. But later on the Puritans used it to force women into marriage. But it doesn't mean we should have an irrational fear of everyone who follows an Abrahamic religion.
Yeah, there are undeveloped parts of the world that practice fundamentalism in extremes, but they don't represent Islam. >_>
Like I said, murder is the one thing that a Muslim can do that their God will never forgive them for.

Quote:

Thunderf00t isn't trying to antagonize, he's part of a protest of censorship in which he and many others (including me) declare that we will not be silent on this subject or any other, and no one gets a free pass to make DEATH THREATS and otherwise promote violence just because something offends them.

Thunderf00t is an idiot. He doesn't know a damn thing about Islam.
Not only is he preaching hate and intolerance, but he's preaching hate and intolerance about something he doesn't understand.
If Thunderf00t is liberating us from people trying to censor us, the Westboro Baptist Church is liberating us from imorality and witchcraft from the gays and the atheists.
Hate is hate, I don't care who's preaching it.

Quote:

brainnsoup

Does that mean we should avoid portraying him just to be offensive? If we have an ounce of respect for Muslims, probably, yeah.

Respect is not a given but is earned, and the majority of Muslims have yet to earn the respect of civilized society.

By the way, here's my drawing. wink

The majority of Muslims don't deserve respect?
I'm willing to bet you don't know anything about Islam either.
Pick up a book, then talk to me.

The difference is that Christians were largely doing those things during the Dark Ages. Muslim countries are still doing that s**t NOW. Like I said, they are commanded in their holy scripture to MAKE WAR on nonbelievers and to eventually subjugate the entire world under Islam. (The poster of that video is an ex-Muslim, if you were thinking of accusing him of ignorance as well.)

Fine, think whatever you want about Thunderf00t, but I didn't take part in the protest because I have a hatred of all Islam and all Muslims. I participated to show extremists and warmongers that our freedom of expression is not shut down at their whim and word.

No need to be condescending just because I disagree with you. I actually know a fair amount about Islam, thank you, and I am continually educating myself on the subject, and what I have learned so far is that extremism among Muslims is not a rare occurrence. And no, I for one don't think that extremists are deserving of respect.  

[brainnsoup]

Question the Answer

brainnsoup

@Shinzo: Meh, celebrity's get death threats all the time. Haha, if you don't believe me, make a thread about Hannah Montana in one of the forums and see how many people say they're going to kill her.

The way I see it, at this point South Park is like a slutty girl at a party. She walks in, makes some noise, gets a bunch of attention. Then people get sick of her. It's only a matter of time before she starts screeching about how wasted she is and removing clothing.
Right now South Park has lost her top and is making out with some drunk girl on a table.
And how long before people get sick of that?

Question the Answer

brainnsoup

chemos32o8

Is there something you do know about islam? Would you please let us know why we shouldn't unite against the extremist? or do you feel we should back down and let them have their way and let our freedom of speech be compromised by fear?

Yes. Murder is a huge sin in Islam. Obviously anyone with a sign saying anything like "Butcher those who insult Islam!" isn't a good Muslim. The people in this video are obviously twisted extremists. So it was both lazy and stupid of him to pretend that they in any way represent Islam.
But please explain to me how drawing Muhammad has anything to do with uniting against extremists though. Or even how it accomplishes anything other than offending a few Muslims who get involved. Not backing down to threats is one thing. Intentionally antagonizing any Muslim you can is a different thing entirely.

Murder may be a sin, but they are commanded to kill any nonbelievers and especially blasphemers. Not to mention, the majority of Muslims DO support those extremists ideals. Just look to the countries with the highest Muslim populations, where they stone adulterers and "witches", promote ***** in the marriage of extremely young girls to adult men, hang homosexuals, repress sexuality to an extremely unhealthy degree, and force rape victims to MARRY their rapists (or kill her if they decide it was her fault).

Pick up a bible. Deuteronomy tells us to mercilessly kill people who invite us to worship Pagan gods. That means it's in the Bible and the Torah. It's also in the Bible that if a man rapes a woman, he has to pay her father a certain amount and has to marry her. That's where it comes from. It made sense in Biblical times because a woman who wasn't a virgin was hard to marry, and an unmarried woman had no way to support herself. But later on the Puritans used it to force women into marriage. But it doesn't mean we should have an irrational fear of everyone who follows an Abrahamic religion.
Yeah, there are undeveloped parts of the world that practice fundamentalism in extremes, but they don't represent Islam. >_>
Like I said, murder is the one thing that a Muslim can do that their God will never forgive them for.

Quote:

Thunderf00t isn't trying to antagonize, he's part of a protest of censorship in which he and many others (including me) declare that we will not be silent on this subject or any other, and no one gets a free pass to make DEATH THREATS and otherwise promote violence just because something offends them.

Thunderf00t is an idiot. He doesn't know a damn thing about Islam.
Not only is he preaching hate and intolerance, but he's preaching hate and intolerance about something he doesn't understand.
If Thunderf00t is liberating us from people trying to censor us, the Westboro Baptist Church is liberating us from imorality and witchcraft from the gays and the atheists.
Hate is hate, I don't care who's preaching it.

Quote:

brainnsoup

Does that mean we should avoid portraying him just to be offensive? If we have an ounce of respect for Muslims, probably, yeah.

Respect is not a given but is earned, and the majority of Muslims have yet to earn the respect of civilized society.

By the way, here's my drawing. wink

The majority of Muslims don't deserve respect?
I'm willing to bet you don't know anything about Islam either.
Pick up a book, then talk to me.

The difference is that Christians were largely doing those things during the Dark Ages. Muslim countries are still doing that s**t NOW. Like I said, they are commanded in their holy scripture to MAKE WAR on nonbelievers and to eventually subjugate the entire world under Islam. (The poster of that video is an ex-Muslim, if you were thinking of accusing him of ignorance as well.)

Fine, think whatever you want about Thunderf00t, but I didn't take part in the protest because I have a hatred of all Islam and all Muslims. I participated to show extremists and warmongers that our freedom of expression is not shut down at their whim and word.

No need to be condescending just because I disagree with you. I actually know a fair amount about Islam, thank you, and I am continually educating myself on the subject, and what I have learned so far is that extremism among Muslims is not a rare occurrence. And no, I for one don't think that extremists are deserving of respect.

That's only partially right. Most Muslim countries expect you to follow Muslim laws, either legally or otherwise. And the Qu'ran doesn't teach blind pacifism in the way that the Bible does. But it does allow for religious freedom.
About the video, whatever religion the author used to be, I highly doubt that user "IHateAllReligions" is an unbiased source.

Well in that case, you showed the terrorists.

I'm not being condescending because you disagree with me. I'm being condescending because you're condemning something you don't understand.
I can't stand it when people tell me I worship Satan and celebrate abortions because I'm an atheist. Why should I then be polite in response to hearing that "Muslim" is synonymous with "extremist"?
When I say get educated, I don't mean watch anti-Muslim hate videos. I mean read a book, take a class, talk to a Muslim.  

[Iconoclast Enthusiast]

brainnsoup

That's only partially right. Most Muslim countries expect you to follow Muslim laws, either legally or otherwise. And the Qu'ran doesn't teach blind pacifism in the way that the Bible does. But it does allow for religious freedom.
About the video, whatever religion the author used to be, I highly doubt that user "IHateAllReligions" is an unbiased source.

Well in that case, you showed the terrorists.

I'm not being condescending because you disagree with me. I'm being condescending because you're condemning something you don't understand.
I can't stand it when people tell me I worship Satan and celebrate abortions because I'm an atheist. Why should I then be polite in response to hearing that "Muslim" is synonymous with "extremist"?
When I say get educated, I don't mean watch anti-Muslim hate videos. I mean read a book, take a class, talk to a Muslim.

The username is irrelevant as the video is a TV broadcast. The Koran may at some point give religious freedom, but at others it tells its adherents to kill infidels and unbelievers. Basically, it's as hypocritical as the Bible but a hell of a lot more people take it literally these days.

Protest on behalf of freedom of expression + expressing myself = mission accomplished.

Again I tell you, I know much more about Islam and religion in general than you're giving me credit for. You assume that I am uneducated on the subject simply because we view it differently (although I think if you saw video of women be stoned to death in Saudi Arabia by the government for being "witches", you might change your tune, too). If you would do some research on the Koran and then about how many people there are who take it literally, who live it as Truth, and who would love to force that lifestyle onto you, me, and the rest of the world (as commanded in their holy scripture), you might not be such an apologist. Of course I don't believe that every Muslim is an extremist. I know Muslims, I have Muslim friends. That doesn't negate the fact that the majority of Muslims have a religious-based, violent, sexually repressed, woman-hating, gay-hanging, witch-stoning, ***** worldview.  

[Steel-Avatar]

Uniting against extremism...Isn't that hypocritical? Isn't that extremism itself?

Wen I first looked at this thread, it seemed fun. Then I entertained the thought. It's an attack on innocent Muslims and only serves to invoke the hatred of the extremists. This is what I meant when I said fighting extremism is extremist - people are resorting to rabble rousing and slander to get the job done. Wouldn't a true atheist have enough common sense to prove these people wrong through information alone?  

[Iconoclast Enthusiast]

Steel-Avatar

Uniting against extremism...Isn't that hypocritical? Isn't that extremism itself?

Wen I first looked at this thread, it seemed fun. Then I entertained the thought. It's an attack on innocent Muslims and only serves to invoke the hatred of the extremists. This is what I meant when I said fighting extremism is extremist - people are resorting to rabble rousing and slander to get the job done. Wouldn't a true atheist have enough common sense to prove these people wrong through information alone?

3 problems

1) Solidarity = extremism?

2) The whole issue is that drawing Mohammed is seen as an "attack" in the first place.

3) This movement isn't about disproving Islam, it's about upholding free expression.  

[RandomnessAndMiscellany]

American Infidel

brainnsoup

That's only partially right. Most Muslim countries expect you to follow Muslim laws, either legally or otherwise. And the Qu'ran doesn't teach blind pacifism in the way that the Bible does. But it does allow for religious freedom.
About the video, whatever religion the author used to be, I highly doubt that user "IHateAllReligions" is an unbiased source.

Well in that case, you showed the terrorists.

I'm not being condescending because you disagree with me. I'm being condescending because you're condemning something you don't understand.
I can't stand it when people tell me I worship Satan and celebrate abortions because I'm an atheist. Why should I then be polite in response to hearing that "Muslim" is synonymous with "extremist"?
When I say get educated, I don't mean watch anti-Muslim hate videos. I mean read a book, take a class, talk to a Muslim.

The username is irrelevant as the video is a TV broadcast. The Koran may at some point give religious freedom, but at others it tells its adherents to kill infidels and unbelievers. Basically, it's as hypocritical as the Bible but a hell of a lot more people take it literally these days.

Protest on behalf of freedom of expression + expressing myself = mission accomplished.

Again I tell you, I know much more about Islam and religion in general than you're giving me credit for. You assume that I am uneducated on the subject simply because we view it differently (although I think if you saw video of women be stoned to death in Saudi Arabia by the government for being "witches", you might change your tune, too). If you would do some research on the Koran and then about how many people there are who take it literally, who live it as Truth, and who would love to force that lifestyle onto you, me, and the rest of the world (as commanded in their holy scripture), you might not be such an apologist. Of course I don't believe that every Muslim is an extremist. I know Muslims, I have Muslim friends. That doesn't negate the fact that the majority of Muslims have a religious-based, violent, sexually repressed, woman-hating, gay-hanging, witch-stoning, ***** worldview.

Didn't the insane rabbi in this thread say something about how his friends are atheist, yet he still thinks atheists are evil. I'm sure some Muslims would read your post and say "I don't have a religious-based, violent, sexually repressed, woman-hating, gay-hanging, witch-stoning, ***** worldview." Which incidentally happens to be somewhat like what you said about the insane rabbi.
Now you may say, "But atheists don't have a holy book that commands them to kill infidels," but really, whenever I ask my Muslim friends about this sort of thing in the Koran, they say they've never heard about it. So if atheists are right, and God doesn't exist, it doesn't really matter does it?
You may also say, "But atheists don't have countries that are doing these sorts of things." But that's not really true either, is it? Atheists, just like everyone else, can commit atrocities, for the reason that they, and everyone else can say, "Killing you will make the world a better place." I don't think this nature is exhibited in single average people in any group (although you obviously do in Muslims), but when anyone is put in power, that nature will eventually break through.  

[Iconoclast Enthusiast]

RandomnessAndMiscellany

American Infidel

brainnsoup

That's only partially right. Most Muslim countries expect you to follow Muslim laws, either legally or otherwise. And the Qu'ran doesn't teach blind pacifism in the way that the Bible does. But it does allow for religious freedom.
About the video, whatever religion the author used to be, I highly doubt that user "IHateAllReligions" is an unbiased source.

Well in that case, you showed the terrorists.

I'm not being condescending because you disagree with me. I'm being condescending because you're condemning something you don't understand.
I can't stand it when people tell me I worship Satan and celebrate abortions because I'm an atheist. Why should I then be polite in response to hearing that "Muslim" is synonymous with "extremist"?
When I say get educated, I don't mean watch anti-Muslim hate videos. I mean read a book, take a class, talk to a Muslim.

The username is irrelevant as the video is a TV broadcast. The Koran may at some point give religious freedom, but at others it tells its adherents to kill infidels and unbelievers. Basically, it's as hypocritical as the Bible but a hell of a lot more people take it literally these days.

Protest on behalf of freedom of expression + expressing myself = mission accomplished.

Again I tell you, I know much more about Islam and religion in general than you're giving me credit for. You assume that I am uneducated on the subject simply because we view it differently (although I think if you saw video of women be stoned to death in Saudi Arabia by the government for being "witches", you might change your tune, too). If you would do some research on the Koran and then about how many people there are who take it literally, who live it as Truth, and who would love to force that lifestyle onto you, me, and the rest of the world (as commanded in their holy scripture), you might not be such an apologist. Of course I don't believe that every Muslim is an extremist. I know Muslims, I have Muslim friends. That doesn't negate the fact that the majority of Muslims have a religious-based, violent, sexually repressed, woman-hating, gay-hanging, witch-stoning, ***** worldview.

Didn't the insane rabbi in this thread say something about how his friends are atheist, yet he still thinks atheists are evil. I'm sure some Muslims would read your post and say "I don't have a religious-based, violent, sexually repressed, woman-hating, gay-hanging, witch-stoning, ***** worldview." Which incidentally happens to be somewhat like what you said about the insane rabbi.
Now you may say, "But atheists don't have a holy book that commands them to kill infidels," but really, whenever I ask my Muslim friends about this sort of thing in the Koran, they say they've never heard about it. So if atheists are right, and God doesn't exist, it doesn't really matter does it?
You may also say, "But atheists don't have countries that are doing these sorts of things." But that's not really true either, is it? Atheists, just like everyone else, can commit atrocities, for the reason that they, and everyone else can say, "Killing you will make the world a better place." I don't think this nature is exhibited in single average people in any group (although you obviously do in Muslims), but when anyone is put in power, that nature will eventually break through.

I don't really see what you're getting at in your first statements. Some Muslims might say those things...but how does that contradict what I've said? It IS in the Koran, whether or not they're aware of it. I'm sure that there are Muslims who don't read the Koran, just like there are Christians who don't read the Bible.

IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER?? It doesn't matter that people believe in a nonexistent all-powerful all-knowing being and that they know what he wants them to do!? How about 9/11? How about the country in Africa that wants to make it a capital crime to be gay because it's an "abomination"? What about the Pope telling people not to use condoms because they spread AIDS? Or, speaking of the Pope, the mass cover-up of child abuse and rape to protect the sanctity of the institution? People can be convinced of something that isn't even IN the holy books if it comes from a religious authority (example: contraception - not in the Bible but widely condemned). I happen to think that s**t matters.

You obviously didn't read my earlier posts if you think that I think every single Muslim is identical. I don't. However, there is a tendency toward Koranic literalism and fundamentalism in countries ruled by Islam that cannot be denied.

Yes, atheists are capable of violence and atrocity. However, the lack of a belief in god is not a driving factor, whereas a belief in a god can be an enormous motivation to absurd and atrocious behavior. And really, I can't believe someone would pull that dusty old argument out of the closet.  

[RandomnessAndMiscellany]

American Infidel

RandomnessAndMiscellany

American Infidel

brainnsoup

That's only partially right. Most Muslim countries expect you to follow Muslim laws, either legally or otherwise. And the Qu'ran doesn't teach blind pacifism in the way that the Bible does. But it does allow for religious freedom.
About the video, whatever religion the author used to be, I highly doubt that user "IHateAllReligions" is an unbiased source.

Well in that case, you showed the terrorists.

I'm not being condescending because you disagree with me. I'm being condescending because you're condemning something you don't understand.
I can't stand it when people tell me I worship Satan and celebrate abortions because I'm an atheist. Why should I then be polite in response to hearing that "Muslim" is synonymous with "extremist"?
When I say get educated, I don't mean watch anti-Muslim hate videos. I mean read a book, take a class, talk to a Muslim.

The username is irrelevant as the video is a TV broadcast. The Koran may at some point give religious freedom, but at others it tells its adherents to kill infidels and unbelievers. Basically, it's as hypocritical as the Bible but a hell of a lot more people take it literally these days.

Protest on behalf of freedom of expression + expressing myself = mission accomplished.

Again I tell you, I know much more about Islam and religion in general than you're giving me credit for. You assume that I am uneducated on the subject simply because we view it differently (although I think if you saw video of women be stoned to death in Saudi Arabia by the government for being "witches", you might change your tune, too). If you would do some research on the Koran and then about how many people there are who take it literally, who live it as Truth, and who would love to force that lifestyle onto you, me, and the rest of the world (as commanded in their holy scripture), you might not be such an apologist. Of course I don't believe that every Muslim is an extremist. I know Muslims, I have Muslim friends. That doesn't negate the fact that the majority of Muslims have a religious-based, violent, sexually repressed, woman-hating, gay-hanging, witch-stoning, ***** worldview.

Didn't the insane rabbi in this thread say something about how his friends are atheist, yet he still thinks atheists are evil. I'm sure some Muslims would read your post and say "I don't have a religious-based, violent, sexually repressed, woman-hating, gay-hanging, witch-stoning, ***** worldview." Which incidentally happens to be somewhat like what you said about the insane rabbi.
Now you may say, "But atheists don't have a holy book that commands them to kill infidels," but really, whenever I ask my Muslim friends about this sort of thing in the Koran, they say they've never heard about it. So if atheists are right, and God doesn't exist, it doesn't really matter does it?
You may also say, "But atheists don't have countries that are doing these sorts of things." But that's not really true either, is it? Atheists, just like everyone else, can commit atrocities, for the reason that they, and everyone else can say, "Killing you will make the world a better place." I don't think this nature is exhibited in single average people in any group (although you obviously do in Muslims), but when anyone is put in power, that nature will eventually break through.

I don't really see what you're getting at in your first statements. Some Muslims might say those things...but how does that contradict what I've said? It IS in the Koran, whether or not they're aware of it. I'm sure that there are Muslims who don't read the Koran, just like there are Christians who don't read the Bible.

IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER?? It doesn't matter that people believe in a nonexistent all-powerful all-knowing being and that they know what he wants them to do!? How about 9/11? How about the country in Africa that wants to make it a capital crime to be gay because it's an "abomination"? What about the Pope telling people not to use condoms because they spread AIDS? Or, speaking of the Pope, the mass cover-up of child abuse and rape to protect the sanctity of the institution? People can be convinced of something that isn't even IN the holy books if it comes from a religious authority (example: contraception - not in the Bible but widely condemned). I happen to think that s**t matters.

You obviously didn't read my earlier posts if you think that I think every single Muslim is identical. I don't. However, there is a tendency toward Koranic literalism and fundamentalism in countries ruled by Islam that cannot be denied.

Yes, atheists are capable of violence and atrocity. However, the lack of a belief in god is not a driving factor, whereas a belief in a god can be an enormous motivation to absurd and atrocious behavior. And really, I can't believe someone would pull that dusty old argument out of the closet.

Firstly, I was speaking for American Muslims, who don't scan over every single passage of the Koran. Of course in Muslim countries they obey it, however stereotyping all Muslims as being woman hating witch burners etc. etc. is not at all valid. You chided me for "stereotyping" Muslims (although I was only talking about American Muslims, sorry for the misunderstanding sweatdrop ), yet in your first post you called the majority of Muslims out on having a witch stoning, woman hating, ****** worldview...
Secondly, the argument "you don't have a god, so no morals" was not my argument. My argument was that if you're separate from another group, specifically religiously, then you'll commit atrocities 'cause, "You're wrong, and hurting society, so Imma kill you." If you actually are telling me that atheists are some kind of exception, you're blind.  

[RandomnessAndMiscellany]

Oh yes, and everyone else who feels like participating in the Islam hatred, please take the time to read this before making comments.
I'm okay with telling countries that its wrong to put down free speech (is it?), however you should do that to all countries that try to take away those rights, not just middle eastern ones. And you definitely shouldn't insult all of Islam in the process, considering less than 40% of Islamic people live in the Middle East.