no idea what i should be

[Shadows-shine]

Ametrin

So pentecostals don't believe in the Trinity? I didn't know that.

All of the Pentecostals I know believe in the trinity. Maybe it varies in the church and the pastor and what each one of them teaches?  

[Hizuma the Troublesome]

Scarlet_Teardrops

Hizuma the Troublesome

Personally I am Apostolic Pentecostal. My heart led me to it because it feels more real to me than any church I have ever been in before or since. And the Apostles in Acts spoke in tongues, as have the three thousands added to them that day, so why do people believe that they cannot.

And calling all Pentecostals "charismatic" is simply wrong. We believe what the Bible says, plain and simple, instead of adding in a bunch of nonsense gibberish.

And for saying we are not in tune with reason or logic...
Why do you think we are some of the few that believe there is One God?

I do believe people can speak in tongues. But if you judge people by whether they can speak in tongues or not as being Christian or not Christian, you are in the wrong.

Completely.

Paul addresses gifts in his epistles. Not everyone has the same gifts. Meaning not every Christian will speak in tongues.

I never called you charistmatics. I simply said that you were sometimes also known as charismatics. Referring to other people's views. Not my own.

I also said "more in tune with reasoning and logic than some might say for the Pentecostals..."

Than some might say. I never included myself in that group. But I have heard people say that Pentecostals have no reason or logic. I don't agree. I, personally, am a strong believer in miracles and the power of the Holy Spirit. It seems illogical to not believe in the power of the Holy Spirit.

So don't assume that I'm downing the Pentecostals. I'm not. However, I don't like the fact that they judge Christians based on specific gifts.

There is only one God. Not three gods. You can say that God was talking to the angels when He said "let us create"...but angels do not have the ability to create. So He couldn't have been talking to them.

And so you must find another way to explain this. The Trinitarian view is reasonable and logical. I have made a perfectly good case for it a number of times.

So please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks.

Now we come of the issue of Tongues.
Acts 2:2-4
And suddenly there came a sound from Heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance.

(if you want, skip the first sermon preached)

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them: Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of Sins, and ye shall recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The initial evidence of recieving the Holy Ghost, as shown by the Apostles, is speaking in Tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance, or ability. This is the initial sign of Recieving the Holy Ghost. We are meant to use this in our personal walk with God, in prayer and talking to God.

The use of Tongues as a Gift, however, is rarer. Remember that all of the spiritual Gifts are meant for the Glory of God and the edifying of the Church. The Gift of Tongues, and with it the Gift of Interpretation, are to be used together for the Church family as a whole. Because, if One speaks in another language to the Church, without Interpretation what good will it serve.

And to the rest of it. I was having a bad day when I posted that. Ever have friends that practice Wicca call you a Devil worshipper? Very...well, its the pot calling the kettle black.

Same for the Charismatic name-calling. I apologize for snapping like that. But after so many times being called that, it gets under ze skin.

I too believe the power of the Holy Ghost. I seen and heard miraculous healings and works with my eyes and ears.

For the "Let us" argument. I can continue, but I'm not gonna. Its too troublesome to continue.

And I know the trinity seems reasonable to many. But I studied it for nearly 9 years and could never make it logical.
I had never even herd of "oneness" before February 2009. But the more I studied, and study, it out, the more sense it makes.

EDIT!!!!
I know quite a few Pentecostals that believe in the Trinity. An you are right. it comes down to their interpretation  

[Scarlet_Teardrops]

Hizuma the Troublesome

Scarlet_Teardrops

Hizuma the Troublesome

Personally I am Apostolic Pentecostal. My heart led me to it because it feels more real to me than any church I have ever been in before or since. And the Apostles in Acts spoke in tongues, as have the three thousands added to them that day, so why do people believe that they cannot.

And calling all Pentecostals "charismatic" is simply wrong. We believe what the Bible says, plain and simple, instead of adding in a bunch of nonsense gibberish.

And for saying we are not in tune with reason or logic...
Why do you think we are some of the few that believe there is One God?

I do believe people can speak in tongues. But if you judge people by whether they can speak in tongues or not as being Christian or not Christian, you are in the wrong.

Completely.

Paul addresses gifts in his epistles. Not everyone has the same gifts. Meaning not every Christian will speak in tongues.

I never called you charistmatics. I simply said that you were sometimes also known as charismatics. Referring to other people's views. Not my own.

I also said "more in tune with reasoning and logic than some might say for the Pentecostals..."

Than some might say. I never included myself in that group. But I have heard people say that Pentecostals have no reason or logic. I don't agree. I, personally, am a strong believer in miracles and the power of the Holy Spirit. It seems illogical to not believe in the power of the Holy Spirit.

So don't assume that I'm downing the Pentecostals. I'm not. However, I don't like the fact that they judge Christians based on specific gifts.

There is only one God. Not three gods. You can say that God was talking to the angels when He said "let us create"...but angels do not have the ability to create. So He couldn't have been talking to them.

And so you must find another way to explain this. The Trinitarian view is reasonable and logical. I have made a perfectly good case for it a number of times.

So please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks.

Now we come of the issue of Tongues.
Acts 2:2-4
And suddenly there came a sound from Heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance.

(if you want, skip the first sermon preached)

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them: Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of Sins, and ye shall recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The initial evidence of recieving the Holy Ghost, as shown by the Apostles, is speaking in Tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance, or ability. This is the initial sign of Recieving the Holy Ghost. We are meant to use this in our personal walk with God, in prayer and talking to God.

The use of Tongues as a Gift, however, is rarer. Remember that all of the spiritual Gifts are meant for the Glory of God and the edifying of the Church. The Gift of Tongues, and with it the Gift of Interpretation, are to be used together for the Church family as a whole. Because, if One speaks in another language to the Church, without Interpretation what good will it serve.

And to the rest of it. I was having a bad day when I posted that. Ever have friends that practice Wicca call you a Devil worshipper? Very...well, its the pot calling the kettle black.

Same for the Charismatic name-calling. I apologize for snapping like that. But after so many times being called that, it gets under ze skin.

I too believe the power of the Holy Ghost. I seen and heard miraculous healings and works with my eyes and ears.

For the "Let us" argument. I can continue, but I'm not gonna. Its too troublesome to continue.

And I know the trinity seems reasonable to many. But I studied it for nearly 9 years and could never make it logical.
I had never even herd of "oneness" before February 2009. But the more I studied, and study, it out, the more sense it makes.

EDIT!!!!
I know quite a few Pentecostals that believe in the Trinity. An you are right. it comes down to their interpretation

It was never my intention to offend you. Ever. Or any other person in this guild. Ever. I don't like hurting or offending people. There's no reason to do so, I believe.

The Gift of the Holy Spirit. Meaning the Holy Spirit dwells within. This doesn't mean tongues. I've never spoken tongues in my life, ever. But I have taken authority in the name of Jesus and used the power of the Holy Spirit to heal people. It is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, as Jesus speaks of to Nicodemus. That is the Gift. Not tongues.

I have many non-believing friends. While they've said things before that hinted at them thinking I'm utterly stupid, I've forgiven them. Sure, it hurts, but that's just what you have to expect from people.

Troublesome, you say? You may be experiencing something very similar to what I am...

Just as a warning: do not allow yourself to base everything on logic. God tells us to step out in faith when we do not always understand. Mind you, we still should try to work things out if we can. If we can't, we must trust in God and pray that He will reveal to us the truth.

God bless.
 

[Hizuma the Troublesome]

I know it is not. And you are right, there is no good reason to outright hurt or offend someone. if hurt or offense come from something that needs to be said, that is unavoidable.

And The Bible points to tongues as the initial sign of receiving the Holy Ghost. When the Holy Ghost first fell on the Apostles in that upper room, the first thing they did was started talking in tongues.

I know, and have forgiven them. But there are certain lines you do not cross with me. One of them is being called Charismatic. Another is being called a Devil Worshipper, especially, like I said, from Wiccans and Pagans.

To me, a lot of things are troublesome. I never mean it as an insult though. I just use it when I do not feel like continuing on or if it is pointless to do so.

And I do not base myself completely in logic. I have had to trust in God to learn a lot of what I know. Usually it comes about in unexpected ways.  

[Shadows-shine]

So, let me understand what you are saying, Hizuma...Basically those who have the Holy Ghost will speak in tongues?

What of those who are not granted that gift? I have the gift of the Holy Ghost, but I certainly do not have the gift of tongues.

Paul said that not every one would have the same gift. We all are granted different gifts. Not all will be given the gift of tongues, healing, prophesy, etc.

Reception of the Holy Ghost does not automatically make some one have the gift of tongues, nor does having that gift show that you do or do not have the Holy Ghost.