Opinions On The Death Penalty

[Sanguvixen]

PickleBoy

Sangu brought up something that really makes me sad. The whole killing innocent animals thing. v.v I have to say that if we can kill a dog for biting because it was trained that way, we can certainly kill a person for killing because they were f@&^í up by society that way. Poor wittle kitties and doggies... *sniffle*

When I alude the killing of animals I mean animals that are put down at the end of thier lives because they are suffering, or animals that have illnesses that are inhibiting thier quality of life.

It is selfish to keep a suffering animal alive for human comfort. It is kinder to put it to sleep. That is what happened when one of my cats got captured by someone in the nieghborhood and was beaten badly. She was already suffering greatly, and there was no curing her, and her condition would only get worse.

So we ended her suffering by putting her to sleep. That is what I was alluding to.

It is not the fault of a dog when it ends up killing a human, but the fault of the owner. It is the fault of a human when a human kills another human, for they have consciousness to know better.

 

[Lesilrok]

well I kinda blame myself for posting this topic up and I should warn I posted this because atheists have different views on this particular topic I see that I am miss sanguvixen have different opinions set on stone and not moving our opinions but i will post this from another forum and I want to warn anyone who continues this topic may get ugly and bring out the worst in others

http://atheistnetwork.com/viewtopic.php?t=11820&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

so i blame myself for bringing this up
thanks for the little debate though  

[PoeticVengeance]

Waffle Dem0n

Could someone post actual evidence as to which one is more expensive? Lethal injection after being held for one or two years doesn't sound at all less expensive than 50+ years of food, clothes, shelter, etc.

Its the appeals process that does it  

[DivideByZero14]

shinobikun

it is okay to kill a human being.

Yup.

It's just like moving a book across a desk--you are putting matter and energy into a different configuration, albeit one where there is one fewer reproducing homo sapiens.

And what's with this thing about "morals" everyone has? Do what is best for society and yourself, don't do what isn't best for society and yourself, and there shall be no problems.  

[PoeticVengeance]

DivideByZero14

shinobikun

it is okay to kill a human being.

Yup.

It's just like moving a book across a desk--you are putting matter and energy into a different configuration, albeit one where there is one fewer reproducing homo sapiens.

And what's with this thing about "morals" everyone has? Do what is best for society and yourself, don't do what isn't best for society and yourself, and there shall be no problems.

Meh, I want the death penalty removed because its eating my tax dollars worse then our retarded welfare system.

And that's saying something.

(If you aren't in America then that statement is completely irrelevant as I have no clue how welfare and/or death penalty is handled elsewhere)  

[DivideByZero14]

PoeticVengence

DivideByZero14

shinobikun

it is okay to kill a human being.

Yup.

It's just like moving a book across a desk--you are putting matter and energy into a different configuration, albeit one where there is one fewer reproducing homo sapiens.

And what's with this thing about "morals" everyone has? Do what is best for society and yourself, don't do what isn't best for society and yourself, and there shall be no problems.

Meh, I want the death penalty removed because its eating my tax dollars worse then our retarded welfare system.

And that's saying something.

(If you aren't in America then that statement is completely irrelevant as I have no clue how welfare and/or death penalty is handled elsewhere)

How do you mean? I don't think that giving someone a lethal injection is more expensive than thirty years of food, housing, medicine, and guarding.  

[Lesilrok]

Well I warned people about this topic but your forcing this outta me. This is what a kansas study shows

$ Kansas Study Concludes Death Penalty is Costly Policy
In its review of death penalty expenses, the State of Kansas concluded that capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-death penalty cases. The study counted death penalty case costs through to execution and found that the median death penalty case costs $1.26 million. Non-death penalty cases were counted through to the end of incarceration and were found to have a median cost of $740,000. For death penalty cases, the pre-trial and trial level expenses were the most expensive part, 49% of the total cost. The costs of appeals were 29% of the total expense, and the incarceration and execution costs accounted for the remaining 22%. In comparison to non-death penalty cases, the following findings were revealed:

The investigation costs for death-sentence cases were about 3 times greater than for non-death cases.
The trial costs for death cases were about 16 times greater than for non-death cases ($508,000 for death case; $32,000 for non-death case).
The appeal costs for death cases were 21 times greater.
The costs of carrying out (i.e. incarceration and/or execution) a death sentence were about half the costs of carrying out a non-death sentence in a comparable case.

here is my source http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108&scid=7
Trials involving a death sentence averaged 34 days, including jury selection; non-death trials averaged about 9 days.  

[DivideByZero14]

Oh! I get it. When people find out they're going to die, they hire a better lawyer. I say we don't give the guy heading for death row any more time than the guy heading for prison. Well, maybe, folks, if you weren't so cavalier with others' lives, we wouldn't be so cavalier with yours.

shinobikun

The costs of carrying out (i.e. incarceration and/or execution) a death sentence were about half the costs of carrying out a non-death sentence in a comparable case.

This is more what I was talking about.  

[Lesilrok]

DivideByZero14

shinobikun

The costs of carrying out (i.e. incarceration and/or execution) a death sentence were about half the costs of carrying out a non-death sentence in a comparable case.

This is more what I was talking about.

I made a mistake posting the message

What Shinobikun actually meant to type

The costs of carrying out (i.e. incarceration and/or execution) a death sentence were about half the costs of carrying out a non-death sentence in a comparable case. Trials involving a death sentence averaged 34 days, including jury selection; non-death trials averaged about 9 days.

what this meant was other crime cases such as human trafficing, grand theft, indictation, and other cases which invlove A LOT of money not only murder.

also finding the way people support the death penalty have ideas that conflict such as Killing is wrong and we are going to kill you to prove a point that killing is wrong. There is no logic in that.  

[DivideByZero14]

shinobikun

also finding the way people support the death penalty have ideas that conflict such as Killing is wrong and we are going to kill you to prove a point that killing is wrong. There is no logic in that.

I don't think anyone here has used that reasoning. All in favor of the death penalty have presented their reasoning, and, if you're wondering why we support it, read our posts.  

[Lesilrok]

Yes I read your posts but every post resulting that favors death penalty usually say

"I don't like killing except in certain situations"

You killed someone now we are going to kill you to prove a point

Killing is wrong and should never be done......well......except in these situations

NO its whether you go one way or the other you can't say you disagree killing and leave an exception which is the death penalty

really your "reasoning" is basically using two ideas which conflict each other in which the arguements condradicts itself.

I disagree with the idea of killing people>conflict crash

[PoeticVengeance]

DivideByZero14

PoeticVengence

DivideByZero14

shinobikun

it is okay to kill a human being.

Yup.

It's just like moving a book across a desk--you are putting matter and energy into a different configuration, albeit one where there is one fewer reproducing homo sapiens.

And what's with this thing about "morals" everyone has? Do what is best for society and yourself, don't do what isn't best for society and yourself, and there shall be no problems.

Meh, I want the death penalty removed because its eating my tax dollars worse then our retarded welfare system.

And that's saying something.

(If you aren't in America then that statement is completely irrelevant as I have no clue how welfare and/or death penalty is handled elsewhere)

How do you mean? I don't think that giving someone a lethal injection is more expensive than thirty years of food, housing, medicine, and guarding.

The Appeals process.  

[PoeticVengeance]

DivideByZero14

Oh! I get it. When people find out they're going to die, they hire a better lawyer. I say we don't give the guy heading for death row any more time than the guy heading for prison. Well, maybe, folks, if you weren't so cavalier with others' lives, we wouldn't be so cavalier with yours.

Here's the problems with cutting death row time, eliminating the appeals process and such (the things that incur the high expense of the death penalty, which would normally be cheaper):

Eliminating the appeals process means that the probability of innocent people recieving the death penalty will sky rocket. This is unacceptable in a society that protects the rights of the individual.

Death row is what allows the time needed to complete the appeals process, hence eliminating death row time also eliminates the Appeals process.


Since the death penalty requires the appeals process to not execute innocent people left and right (therefore making the appeals process for the death penalty a necessity), and the appeals process devours my tax dollars like starving wallaby, the logic follows that the end result of having the death penalty is a higher cost to the taxpayers.

So its not so much that the penalty itself is more expensive, but that it causes things to happen nearly 100% of the time that incur this greater expense.  

[DivideByZero14]

@ shinobikun
Speaking for myself, I see exactly what you mean by the conflict crashes. So, I just say that killing is right anytime. Whether or not we do it is a completely different matter.

@ Fires
OK, I see what you're saying, but you took me the wrong way. I meant not that we should cut trial time for the death penalty, but that we should increase trial time for the prison sentences. We are either punishing the right man or the wrong man, and we should put as much time and money into that discrimination as necessary. (I guess I wasn't very clear... sweatdrop heh...)  

[Copper Forrest]

I think the death penalty is reasonable for:
----people who murder more than one other person (demonstrating that they can do it more than once) and
----once the government can clear up the ridiculous and unfair justice system. (too many poor people go to prison cuz they can't afford a rich man's justice.)

Honestly, I am inclined to say kill 'em all the very day the jury or judge determined them guilty... and the victim's family gets first shot. My brother was murdered when I was in the 7th grade. Its not just that we grieve still, its that we are still haunted, 30 years later. (Did he suffer? Was he scared? Did he cry? Was he worried about us? How long thru the stab wounds did he live?) Now I have a little one and I know that the worst can happen to anyone.

However, enough time has passed that I recognize my emotions are based in my personal experience. Justice needs to intervene REGARDLESS of the victim's family - and regardless of the accused bank account.