The Maia Wizards

[Onoj]

Zurgi

Onoj

Falathrim

And if you're too lazy to find quotes to back your point your an idiot who has no right to present themselves in a debate forum.

Eh.

Yeah, I'd have to agree with Falathrim. Except..I wouldn't have put it as bluntly, but that's just my personality xd If you're going to debate something, don't make other people find quotes for you -__- I do admit that I have done it a few times, though, but now I realize how annoying it is to have someone saying "yeahhh...can someone find me the quote?"

I didn't say that though. I said I would find the quote just that I didn't want to at that moment or as tha case was this afternoon I had no access to my books to look.  

[Menegil]

Will edit with my contribution as soon as I get home, since the Internet connection of my accursed school ate my post. stressed  

[ChewySkywalker]

Guys please stop with this quote war. If you have no access to your books, that is excusable. If you are just being a lazy a**, well then that's just plain annoying. You really should be supporting what you state unless if it comes from n unknown source (such as that source that I couldn't remember a few posts back).

@menegil: school connections do really suck.

@Onoj: the statement Fala made was directed at SYFFER, I believe. And he does have a point. I know you find quotes and support your stuff. No need to be defensive.  

[Menegil]

I curse thee, o crueler than the cruel mother, source of my book money!! stressed

Well, I've heard a rumour that Alatar and Pallando came to rule the Easterling peoples of Rh?d beyond, ruling them in the ways of peace after the War of the Ring, during which time they kept themselves hidden from Sauron's grasp until he fell. It's just a rumour, but I like to think it happened that way.

As for the Eru/Manw렢usiness: This is rather puzzling. If neither Eru or Manw렷ouldn't interfere directly in the affairs of the world, then which of the two brought Gandalf to life again?

My answer is, of course, Eru. The Maiar are like the younger brothers of the Valar, since they both belong to the Ainur, and the only difference between them is the amount of power destined to them by Eru. Manw묠as a Valar, has no control over his brethren, since the Maiar work for the Valar because they want to. Eru, being the All-father and the creator of the Ainur, is, in my humble opinion, the only one capable of bringing someone back to life.  

[Zurgi]

Onoj: I never said you did wink I was just agreeing with what Falathrim, and you quoting it brought it to my attention.

Menegil: Mmm..it does make sense for Eru to have sent Gandalf back, but, it was deemed that his task was not yet complete, correct? It was the Valar who sent the Istari to do the task, so I percieve it as being Manwe since he would judge that the task was not yet done.

If that makes sense.  

[Falathrim]

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[Menegil]

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[ChewySkywalker]

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[cattirun]

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[SYFFER]

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[Tirno]

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[SYFFER]

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[Tirno]

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[Zurgi]

People, quoting is your friend. If you put evidence from the books, it really helps support your point xd

Silmarillion

And as she knelt before him her tears fell upon his feet like rain upon the stones; and Mandos was moved to pity, who never before was so moved, nor has been since....But Mandos had no power to withhold the spirits of Men that were dead within the confines of the world... He went therefore to Manwe, Lord of the Valar...and Manwe sought counsel in his inmost thought, where the will of Illuvatar was revealed.

Unfinished Tales doesn't even have the Tale of Beren and Luthien. The only mentions of Luthien are when people talk about her.

The Shaping of Middle-earth

Some songs say that Luthien went even over the Grinding Ice, aided by the power of her divine mother, Melian, to Mandos' halls and won him back; others that Mandos hearing his tale released him.

So that conflicts with the Silmarillion. ninja

Now you two may continue your debate and decide which one is true.  

[Tirno]

Haha, thanks, that's the quote I was thinking of, and I would have done myself, but someone is borrowing my Silmarillion right now. Always have to bring new members to the Tolkien fold, don't I?

Anyways, I'm of the opinion that what's published in the Hobbit, LotR, and the Silmarillion trumps what's in the HoME series.