Isildur and the Dead

[altairabove]

SYFFER

Hmmm that's interesting. So if Aragorn had died before the battle of Pellenor fields and had not released them, would the Men of the mountains simply remain in Middle-earth forever?

I suspect so.... The end of the world would be their only escape.

Hmmm.... They might, however, still be able to fulfill the oath even if Aragorn had died. Perhaps they could do a great deed in his name or something like that. The closest remaining relative to Aragorn (or perhaps some greater being) might deem them worthy of release.  

[Tirno]

altairabove

SYFFER

Hmmm that's interesting. So if Aragorn had died before the battle of Pellenor fields and had not released them, would the Men of the mountains simply remain in Middle-earth forever?

I suspect so.... The end of the world would be their only escape.

Hmmm.... They might, however, still be able to fulfill the oath even if Aragorn had died. Perhaps they could do a great deed in his name or something like that. The closest remaining relative to Aragorn (or perhaps some greater being) might deem them worthy of release.

Maybe. It seems that Feanor and Co. were pardoned (by the Valar, presumably) from the Everlasting Darkness that they called upon themselves if they failed to keep the Oath, which they did. But it seems unlikely that the Men could have redeemed themselves afterwards, since they were key to the saving of Minas Tirith, which in turn allowed for the diversion at the Black Gate, and thus the destruction of Sauron. Had they not fulfilled their oath then and there, there wouldn't be much Dunedain to help after Sauron took over.  

[SYFFER]

Tirno

altairabove

SYFFER

Hmmm that's interesting. So if Aragorn had died before the battle of Pellenor fields and had not released them, would the Men of the mountains simply remain in Middle-earth forever?

I suspect so.... The end of the world would be their only escape.

Hmmm.... They might, however, still be able to fulfill the oath even if Aragorn had died. Perhaps they could do a great deed in his name or something like that. The closest remaining relative to Aragorn (or perhaps some greater being) might deem them worthy of release.

Maybe. It seems that Feanor and Co. were pardoned (by the Valar, presumably) from the Everlasting Darkness that they called upon themselves if they failed to keep the Oath, which they did. But it seems unlikely that the Men could have redeemed themselves afterwards, since they were key to the saving of Minas Tirith, which in turn allowed for the diversion at the Black Gate, and thus the destruction of Sauron. Had they not fulfilled their oath then and there, there wouldn't be much Dunedain to help after Sauron took over.

That's true. When the king of the dead Men said to Aragorn "Only the King of Gondor may command me!" did he mean the descendant of Isildur or any king of Gondor. What if Arargorn refused the crown and with him the line of the Numenorean Kings would be ended and the steward would become the King. So would Denethor or one of his descendants be able to release them?  

[Tirno]

SYFFER

That's true. When the king of the dead Men said to Aragorn "Only the King of Gondor may command me!" did he mean the descendant of Isildur or any king of Gondor. What if Arargorn refused the crown and with him the line of the Numenorean Kings would be ended and the steward would become the King. So would Denethor or one of his descendants be able to release them?

That was in the movie only, I think (I'm rereading LotR and read "The Passing of the Grey Company" just yesterday). But anyways, I think it was Isildur's descendant, because at that point, Aragorn wasn't king.  

[SYFFER]

Tirno

SYFFER

That's true. When the king of the dead Men said to Aragorn "Only the King of Gondor may command me!" did he mean the descendant of Isildur or any king of Gondor. What if Arargorn refused the crown and with him the line of the Numenorean Kings would be ended and the steward would become the King. So would Denethor or one of his descendants be able to release them?

That was in the movie only, I think (I'm rereading LotR and read "The Passing of the Grey Company" just yesterday). But anyways, I think it was Isildur's descendant, because at that point, Aragorn wasn't king.

I suppose you're right. I don't think he should have released them from a strategic point of view considering how powerful they are. But I suppose from a moral and just point of view he did the right thing. I would have made them my personal secret army of minions! twisted  

[Tirno]

SYFFER

Tirno

SYFFER

That's true. When the king of the dead Men said to Aragorn "Only the King of Gondor may command me!" did he mean the descendant of Isildur or any king of Gondor. What if Arargorn refused the crown and with him the line of the Numenorean Kings would be ended and the steward would become the King. So would Denethor or one of his descendants be able to release them?

That was in the movie only, I think (I'm rereading LotR and read "The Passing of the Grey Company" just yesterday). But anyways, I think it was Isildur's descendant, because at that point, Aragorn wasn't king.

I suppose you're right. I don't think he should have released them from a strategic point of view considering how powerful they are. But I suppose from a moral and just point of view he did the right thing. I would have made them my personal secret army of minions! twisted

Haha, all the more reason for joy that you are no Heir of Isildur.  

[SYFFER]

Tirno

SYFFER

Tirno

SYFFER

That's true. When the king of the dead Men said to Aragorn "Only the King of Gondor may command me!" did he mean the descendant of Isildur or any king of Gondor. What if Arargorn refused the crown and with him the line of the Numenorean Kings would be ended and the steward would become the King. So would Denethor or one of his descendants be able to release them?

That was in the movie only, I think (I'm rereading LotR and read "The Passing of the Grey Company" just yesterday). But anyways, I think it was Isildur's descendant, because at that point, Aragorn wasn't king.

I suppose you're right. I don't think he should have released them from a strategic point of view considering how powerful they are. But I suppose from a moral and just point of view he did the right thing. I would have made them my personal secret army of minions! twisted

Haha, all the more reason for joy that you are no Heir of Isildur.

Hey who knows? If we are descendants of the ancient houses of Men then any one of us could be the descendant of Isildur 3nodding  

[Tirno]

SYFFER

Hey who knows? If we are descendants of the ancient houses of Men then any one of us could be the descendant of Isildur 3nodding

Yeah right, and I'm an Elf. Oh wait, never mind, haha.  

[SYFFER]

Tirno

SYFFER

Hey who knows? If we are descendants of the ancient houses of Men then any one of us could be the descendant of Isildur 3nodding

Yeah right, and I'm an Elf. Oh wait, never mind, haha.

I wouldn't be allt oo proud of being an Elf. I mean sure you have great skill and power but I wouldn't want to live in a society where the men are confused to be women or vise versa. Then again being a Dwarf wouldn't help all that much would it? xp  

[Tirno]

SYFFER

Tirno

SYFFER

Hey who knows? If we are descendants of the ancient houses of Men then any one of us could be the descendant of Isildur 3nodding

Yeah right, and I'm an Elf. Oh wait, never mind, haha.

I wouldn't be allt oo proud of being an Elf. I mean sure you have great skill and power but I wouldn't want to live in a society where the men are confused to be women or vise versa. Then again being a Dwarf wouldn't help all that much would it? xp

Haha, excuse me? Male Elves confused with elf-maidens? When? Besides, I seem to remember a certain Dernhelm of the Rohirrim who wasn't as he seemed.  

[SYFFER]

Tirno

SYFFER

Tirno

SYFFER

Hey who knows? If we are descendants of the ancient houses of Men then any one of us could be the descendant of Isildur 3nodding

Yeah right, and I'm an Elf. Oh wait, never mind, haha.

I wouldn't be allt oo proud of being an Elf. I mean sure you have great skill and power but I wouldn't want to live in a society where the men are confused to be women or vise versa. Then again being a Dwarf wouldn't help all that much would it? xp

Haha, excuse me? Male Elves confused with elf-maidens? When? Besides, I seem to remember a certain Dernhelm of the Rohirrim who wasn't as he seemed.

Well you know, with the "beauty" and all xd . And Eoywn was disguised with armour. Anyone wearing that much armour and present in a crowd of thousands of Men wearing the exact same thing is bound to be camoflauged.  

[Tirno]

SYFFER

Well you know, with the "beauty" and all xd . And Eoywn was disguised with armour. Anyone wearing that much armour and present in a crowd of thousands of Men wearing the exact same thing is bound to be camoflauged.

Haha, so why didn't Merry recognize her? And this confusion of "beauty" is another example of mortals' lack of understanding (like Sam's misconceptions about Elf-"magic").  

[SYFFER]

Tirno

SYFFER

Well you know, with the "beauty" and all xd . And Eoywn was disguised with armour. Anyone wearing that much armour and present in a crowd of thousands of Men wearing the exact same thing is bound to be camoflauged.

Haha, so why didn't Merry recognize her? And this confusion of "beauty" is another example of mortals' lack of understanding (like Sam's misconceptions about Elf-"magic").

Hmmm well Hobbits aren't exactly the smartest of the creatures of Middle-earth I can tell you that.  

[Tirno]

SYFFER

Hmmm well Hobbits aren't exactly the smartest of the creatures of Middle-earth I can tell you that.

Probably because of their descent from Men.  

[SYFFER]

Tirno

SYFFER

Hmmm well Hobbits aren't exactly the smartest of the creatures of Middle-earth I can tell you that.

Probably because of their descent from Men.

Most likely yes. I don't understand though why they have pointy ears, a charcteristic usually possessed by Elves.