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 Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:00 pm
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Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:42 pm
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Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:50 pm
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Tenth Speed Writer PickleBoy +Gloria Domini+ It pisses me off when liberals are just as closed-minded as the conservatives they so fervently persecute. I am not referring to anyone in here, and I mean no offense by this statement. This pertains more to the liberals I knew in high school than anyone else.
When someone who preaches about how we should accept everyone for who they are, regardless of sexual orientation or faith, and then turns around and condemns everyone belonging to a certain group because that group stereotypically hates the people said person is defending, it pisses me off. The most common examples would be people who hate Christians for hating gays, and those who hate Christians for hating all other religions. Its hard to be totally open minded about closed minded people. You're always going to have biases and hypocrits and people-hating-other-people-for-hating-others. Because to be truly open minded... well, that would take a god, wouldn't it? Or at the very least, the illusion of one encouraging it.
One day it's far too late, too late for a return
I would urge you not to treat your view as absolute truth. Don't go saying that there is no God, or that he is an illusion, or imaginary, etc. Rather, treat your belief as just that--a belief. Instead of saying God doesn't exist, say that you don't believe that God exists.
You give Atheists a bad name when you act closed-minded, just as I give Christians a bad name when I act closed-minded.
Arise from the cower, from the day on we have learned
It's high time to break the spell, that's chaining up the world |
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Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:27 pm
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+Gloria Domini+ Tenth Speed Writer PickleBoy +Gloria Domini+ It pisses me off when liberals are just as closed-minded as the conservatives they so fervently persecute. I am not referring to anyone in here, and I mean no offense by this statement. This pertains more to the liberals I knew in high school than anyone else.
When someone who preaches about how we should accept everyone for who they are, regardless of sexual orientation or faith, and then turns around and condemns everyone belonging to a certain group because that group stereotypically hates the people said person is defending, it pisses me off. The most common examples would be people who hate Christians for hating gays, and those who hate Christians for hating all other religions. Its hard to be totally open minded about closed minded people. You're always going to have biases and hypocrits and people-hating-other-people-for-hating-others. Because to be truly open minded... well, that would take a god, wouldn't it? Or at the very least, the illusion of one encouraging it.
One day it's far too late, too late for a returnI would urge you not to treat your view as absolute truth. Don't go saying that there is no God, or that he is an illusion, or imaginary, etc. Rather, treat your belief as just that--a belief. Instead of saying God doesn't exist, say that you don't believe that God exists.
You give Atheists a bad name when you act closed-minded, just as I give Christians a bad name when I act closed-minded. Arise from the cower, from the day on we have learned
It's high time to break the spell, that's chaining up the world
Just making sure: you're quoting him and not me, right? stare |
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Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:36 pm
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+Gloria Domini+ I would urge you not to treat your view as absolute truth. Don't go saying that there is no God, or that he is an illusion, or imaginary, etc. Rather, treat your belief as just that--a belief. Instead of saying God doesn't exist, say that you don't believe that God exists.
You give Atheists a bad name when you act closed-minded, just as I give Christians a bad name when I act closed-minded.
There is no god. If you only believe, it's because you are not resolute in your convictions. In my opinion, when you call it a belief you are subjecting it to the possibility of being false. Therefore, when you call the existance of god a belief, you're pretty much saying you have accepted the possibility that you might be wrong. If you're not positive that there is a god, then why be a theist?
This pissed me off a little today, but fortunately I can retort. |
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Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:48 pm
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Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:56 pm
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Dathu +Gloria Domini+ I would urge you not to treat your view as absolute truth. Don't go saying that there is no God, or that he is an illusion, or imaginary, etc. Rather, treat your belief as just that--a belief. Instead of saying God doesn't exist, say that you don't believe that God exists.
You give Atheists a bad name when you act closed-minded, just as I give Christians a bad name when I act closed-minded.
One day it's far too late, too late for a return
If I treated my belief as fact, then I would hear no end to the claims that I am forcing my belief upon others, as well as incessant arguments from Atheists that I am wrong.
Even if you hold it in high enough regard that you would say it is, without a doubt, true, I would still urge you to treat it as just a belief.
I think that if you must treat your belief as the absolute truth in order to keep faith in it, then your faith is faltering. I believe it takes more faith to be able to consistently subject your belief to the possibility of being false and still hold fast to your view, than to constantly act as though your view is the only correct one for fear of subjecting it to the possibility of being false.
Arise from the cower, from the day on we have learned
It's high time to break the spell, that's chaining up the world |
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Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:06 pm
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+Gloria Domini+ Dathu +Gloria Domini+ I would urge you not to treat your view as absolute truth. Don't go saying that there is no God, or that he is an illusion, or imaginary, etc. Rather, treat your belief as just that--a belief. Instead of saying God doesn't exist, say that you don't believe that God exists.
You give Atheists a bad name when you act closed-minded, just as I give Christians a bad name when I act closed-minded.
One day it's far too late, too late for a returnIf I treated my belief as fact, then I would hear no end to the claims that I am forcing my belief upon others, as well as incessant arguments from Atheists that I am wrong.
Even if you hold it in high enough regard that you would say it is, without a doubt, true, I would still urge you to treat it as just a belief.
I think that if you must treat your belief as the absolute truth in order to keep faith in it, then your faith is faltering. I believe it takes more faith to be able to consistently subject your belief to the possibility of being false and still hold fast to your view, than to constantly act as though your view is the only correct one for fear of subjecting it to the possibility of being false. Arise from the cower, from the day on we have learned
It's high time to break the spell, that's chaining up the world
Here we go. whee
+Gloria Domini+ If I treated my belief as fact, then I would hear no end to the claims that I am forcing my belief upon others, as well as incessant arguments from Atheists that I am wrong.
Having confidence in your dicision is not forcing your belief, and any Atheist that says that is wrong. Your signature, however, is borderline forcing your belief: if had a naked man being sodomized for my sig, I think you'd be offended. I no more want to see an obnoxious glowing cross than you want to see a kitten burning alive. As for Atheist arguments, at least it would show that you are confident in your descision.
+Gloria Domini+ Even if you hold it in high enough regard that you would say it is, without a doubt, true, I would still urge you to treat it as just a belief.
I think that if you must treat your belief as the absolute truth in order to keep faith in it, then your faith is faltering.
Anyone who has faith in the nonexistence of god, in my opinion, is barely an Atheist. Faith, aside from being an ill placed synonym for confidence, is by definition "belief that is not based on proof." Any intelligent Atheist can make a list of the evidence for their decision to be Atheist (if you want to know mine, read my journal entry). I don't have faith in anything. I am Athiest because the evidence points to the nonexistence of a god. If evidence arose to suggest the existence of a god then my opinion would change, but, in keep with my journal argument, until there is evidence, I cannot and will not even entertain the idea of a god/gods or godlike beings.
+Gloria Domini+ I believe it takes more faith to be able to consistently subject your belief to the possibility of being false and still hold fast to your view, than to constantly act as though your view is the only correct one for fear of subjecting it to the possibility of being false.
I am more than willing to subject my decision to scrutiny if a viable argument is given. At this point in my life, I have yet to hear a good argument for the existence of god/gods or godlike beings. Therefore, I am a devout Athiest.
I love little debates. 3nodding |
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Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:32 pm
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Dathu +Gloria Domini+ Dathu +Gloria Domini+ I would urge you not to treat your view as absolute truth. Don't go saying that there is no God, or that he is an illusion, or imaginary, etc. Rather, treat your belief as just that--a belief. Instead of saying God doesn't exist, say that you don't believe that God exists.
You give Atheists a bad name when you act closed-minded, just as I give Christians a bad name when I act closed-minded.
One day it's far too late, too late for a returnIf I treated my belief as fact, then I would hear no end to the claims that I am forcing my belief upon others, as well as incessant arguments from Atheists that I am wrong.
Even if you hold it in high enough regard that you would say it is, without a doubt, true, I would still urge you to treat it as just a belief.
I think that if you must treat your belief as the absolute truth in order to keep faith in it, then your faith is faltering. I believe it takes more faith to be able to consistently subject your belief to the possibility of being false and still hold fast to your view, than to constantly act as though your view is the only correct one for fear of subjecting it to the possibility of being false. Arise from the cower, from the day on we have learned
It's high time to break the spell, that's chaining up the world +Gloria Domini+ If I treated my belief as fact, then I would hear no end to the claims that I am forcing my belief upon others, as well as incessant arguments from Atheists that I am wrong. +Gloria Domini+ Even if you hold it in high enough regard that you would say it is, without a doubt, true, I would still urge you to treat it as just a belief.
I think that if you must treat your belief as the absolute truth in order to keep faith in it, then your faith is faltering. +Gloria Domini+ I believe it takes more faith to be able to consistently subject your belief to the possibility of being false and still hold fast to your view, than to constantly act as though your view is the only correct one for fear of subjecting it to the possibility of being false.
I love little debates. 3nodding
One day it's far too late, too late for a return
I'm not going to argue with you.
I think we subscribe to two entirely different forms of conviction. You seem the type to only recognize conviction if it is absolute and open, like someone who constantly proves his own view to be the only correct one. I, on the other hand, am able to recognize more subtle conviction.
I skimmed your journal, and I see why your view is such. I won't argue with you, but you probably see this as admitting defeat. I want you to know that this is the one thing I will be openly closed-minded about:
I believe there is one God, and that Jesus was His one and only Son. I believe that Jesus was sent to earth to die for our sins, and that anyone who repents and accepts Him as his or her personal savior will be go to heaven.
Don't think I am trying to evangelize, or shove my religion down anyone's throat; I am simply making my view clear. I will not be swayed, and as long as you have logic to back your arguments, I will not argue your views.
(I could care less about the lack of logic behind mine; that is where my faith comes into play. Call me stupid, call me a sheep, whatever, I will not take offense, nor will I take any insults to heart.)
Arise from the cower, from the day on we have learned
It's high time to break the spell, that's chaining up the world |
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Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:37 pm
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+Gloria Domini+ Dathu +Gloria Domini+ Dathu +Gloria Domini+ I would urge you not to treat your view as absolute truth. Don't go saying that there is no God, or that he is an illusion, or imaginary, etc. Rather, treat your belief as just that--a belief. Instead of saying God doesn't exist, say that you don't believe that God exists.
You give Atheists a bad name when you act closed-minded, just as I give Christians a bad name when I act closed-minded.
One day it's far too late, too late for a returnIf I treated my belief as fact, then I would hear no end to the claims that I am forcing my belief upon others, as well as incessant arguments from Atheists that I am wrong.
Even if you hold it in high enough regard that you would say it is, without a doubt, true, I would still urge you to treat it as just a belief.
I think that if you must treat your belief as the absolute truth in order to keep faith in it, then your faith is faltering. I believe it takes more faith to be able to consistently subject your belief to the possibility of being false and still hold fast to your view, than to constantly act as though your view is the only correct one for fear of subjecting it to the possibility of being false. Arise from the cower, from the day on we have learned
It's high time to break the spell, that's chaining up the world +Gloria Domini+ If I treated my belief as fact, then I would hear no end to the claims that I am forcing my belief upon others, as well as incessant arguments from Atheists that I am wrong. +Gloria Domini+ Even if you hold it in high enough regard that you would say it is, without a doubt, true, I would still urge you to treat it as just a belief.
I think that if you must treat your belief as the absolute truth in order to keep faith in it, then your faith is faltering. +Gloria Domini+ I believe it takes more faith to be able to consistently subject your belief to the possibility of being false and still hold fast to your view, than to constantly act as though your view is the only correct one for fear of subjecting it to the possibility of being false.
I love little debates. 3nodding
One day it's far too late, too late for a returnI'm not going to argue with you.
I think we subscribe to two entirely different forms of conviction. You seem the type to only recognize conviction if it is absolute and open, like someone who constantly proves his own view to be the only correct one. I, on the other hand, am able to recognize more subtle conviction.
I skimmed your journal, and I see why your view is such. I won't argue with you, but you probably see this as admitting defeat. I want you to know that this is the one thing I will be openly closed-minded about:
I believe there is one God, and that Jesus was His one and only Son. I believe that Jesus was sent to earth to die for our sins, and that anyone who repents and accepts Him as his or her personal savior will be go to heaven.
Don't think I am trying to evangelize, or shove my religion down anyone's throat; I am simply making my view clear. I will not be swayed, and as long as you have logic to back your arguments, I will not argue your views.
(I could care less about the lack of logic behind mine; that is where my faith comes into play. Call me stupid, call me a sheep, whatever, I will not take offense, nor will I take any insults to heart.) Arise from the cower, from the day on we have learned
It's high time to break the spell, that's chaining up the world
I didn't finish reading your post cause I wanna catch you before you log off. I don't want to defeat you! I don't want to change your mind nor do i want to offend you in any way. I believe in healthy debate.
I think talking about this and being honest and saying well thought agruments is the only way we can live in peace.
After Finishing: It's fine that you believe what you do. This "debate" (if you prefer insted of argue) started because you indirectly acused me of being close minded, and yet in the end you admited that the existence of the Christian God is the one area where you become closed minded. That makes your previous statement hypocritical. However, at least I now know you have the same conviction as I do, and at least I can respect that, however ill placed I may see it. biggrin
Welcome to the Guild! |
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Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:52 pm
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Dathu I didn't finish reading your post cause I wanna catch you before you log off. I don't want to defeat you! I don't want to change your mind nor do i want to offend you in any way. I believe in healthy debate.
I think talking about this and being honest and saying well thought agruments is the only way we can live in peace.
One day it's far too late, too late for a return
I don't see what there is to debate...
You view my quiet conviction as admitting that I am quite possibly wrong, and you seem to associate faith with ignorance. I think it better to be quietly faithful, and to respect those whose views conflict with my own, rather than shove it in their face that I am right. (Do correct me if I'm wrong. It's late and my mind isn't working quite up to par.)
You finished reading my post, and posted your response before I finished my post. I will admit my hypocrisy; however, I am only closed minded in that I will not sway in my beliefs. I will continue to state my beliefs as just that--beliefs. That way, others are still open to state their own views, without the obvious hostility of someone sitting around saying the view he or she holds is the only correct one.
Can you see where I'm coming from?
And thank you for welcoming me. I have thus far been surprisingly well-received by this guild.
Arise from the cower, from the day on we have learned
It's high time to break the spell, that's chaining up the world |
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:11 am
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+Gloria Domini+ Dathu I didn't finish reading your post cause I wanna catch you before you log off. I don't want to defeat you! I don't want to change your mind nor do i want to offend you in any way. I believe in healthy debate.
I think talking about this and being honest and saying well thought agruments is the only way we can live in peace.
One day it's far too late, too late for a returnI don't see what there is to debate...
You view my quiet conviction as admitting that I am quite possibly wrong, and you seem to associate faith with ignorance. I think it better to be quietly faithful, and to respect those whose views conflict with my own, rather than shove it in their face that I am right. (Do correct me if I'm wrong. It's late and my mind isn't working quite up to par.)
You finished reading my post, and posted your response before I finished my post. I will admit my hypocrisy; however, I am only closed minded in that I will not sway in my beliefs. I will continue to state my beliefs as just that--beliefs. That way, others are still open to state their own views, without the obvious hostility of someone sitting around saying the view he or she holds is the only correct one.
Can you see where I'm coming from?
And thank you for welcoming me. I have thus far been surprisingly well-received by this guild. Arise from the cower, from the day on we have learned
It's high time to break the spell, that's chaining up the world
I feel the point of debate is to gain a better, if not full, understanding of each others view. I present my argument only because I am curious as to your response, but then in turn, your response may invoke more arguments that I am curious as to your response on. I admit that at times it can almost be an infinate process, but I strongly feel that the more we learn of what and why we "believe" things, the more respect and understanding we gain, which in turn leads to less hostility. i appologize if any of my statements made you feel as if I was "shoving" them in your face. As I stated, I am very devout in my Atheism, and I tend to be a bit overwhelming, but it is only because I enjoy these kinds of debates. I think it helps me be a better man. But I understand if the subject has run cold for you, so see ya around the guild. |
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:15 am
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Dathu +Gloria Domini+ Dathu I didn't finish reading your post cause I wanna catch you before you log off. I don't want to defeat you! I don't want to change your mind nor do i want to offend you in any way. I believe in healthy debate.
I think talking about this and being honest and saying well thought agruments is the only way we can live in peace.
One day it's far too late, too late for a returnI don't see what there is to debate...
You view my quiet conviction as admitting that I am quite possibly wrong, and you seem to associate faith with ignorance. I think it better to be quietly faithful, and to respect those whose views conflict with my own, rather than shove it in their face that I am right. (Do correct me if I'm wrong. It's late and my mind isn't working quite up to par.)
You finished reading my post, and posted your response before I finished my post. I will admit my hypocrisy; however, I am only closed minded in that I will not sway in my beliefs. I will continue to state my beliefs as just that--beliefs. That way, others are still open to state their own views, without the obvious hostility of someone sitting around saying the view he or she holds is the only correct one.
Can you see where I'm coming from?
And thank you for welcoming me. I have thus far been surprisingly well-received by this guild. Arise from the cower, from the day on we have learned
It's high time to break the spell, that's chaining up the world
One day it's far too late, too late for a return
One last thing before I go:
I understand why you do what you do, but I think there is a better way. The way you state your view as fact does come off as hostile, and you could debate with people just as well if you adopted a less forceful approach.
If I didn't make much sense, it's because I am tired.
Arise from the cower, from the day on we have learned
It's high time to break the spell, that's chaining up the world |
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:27 am
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+Gloria Domini+ Dathu +Gloria Domini+ Dathu I didn't finish reading your post cause I wanna catch you before you log off. I don't want to defeat you! I don't want to change your mind nor do i want to offend you in any way. I believe in healthy debate.
I think talking about this and being honest and saying well thought agruments is the only way we can live in peace.
One day it's far too late, too late for a returnI don't see what there is to debate...
You view my quiet conviction as admitting that I am quite possibly wrong, and you seem to associate faith with ignorance. I think it better to be quietly faithful, and to respect those whose views conflict with my own, rather than shove it in their face that I am right. (Do correct me if I'm wrong. It's late and my mind isn't working quite up to par.)
You finished reading my post, and posted your response before I finished my post. I will admit my hypocrisy; however, I am only closed minded in that I will not sway in my beliefs. I will continue to state my beliefs as just that--beliefs. That way, others are still open to state their own views, without the obvious hostility of someone sitting around saying the view he or she holds is the only correct one.
Can you see where I'm coming from?
And thank you for welcoming me. I have thus far been surprisingly well-received by this guild. Arise from the cower, from the day on we have learned
It's high time to break the spell, that's chaining up the world
One day it's far too late, too late for a returnOne last thing before I go:
I understand why you do what you do, but I think there is a better way. The way you state your view as fact does come off as hostile, and you could debate with people just as well if you adopted a less forceful approach.
If I didn't make much sense, it's because I am tired. Arise from the cower, from the day on we have learned
It's high time to break the spell, that's chaining up the world
I state my views as facts because that's honestly what I feel. To present them any other way would be deceptive. To achieve a true understanding you have to be as honest, thurough, and efficient as you can be in presenting your ideas. Metaphores, euphamisms, and similes are for poetry. Once again, I'm sorry if it seems offensive, but I think it would be more offensive, and far less productive to lie to you.
I would also like to add, that if it seems as though I'm being blunt, it's because this is the ATHIEST'S GUILD! This is a place specifically for Atheist (and agnostics) to speak freely about their ideas on the existence of god (and whatever else). If there is one place where I can state my ideas on the existence of a god without restrictions or fears, it is here! If you and I had met in a cafe or at a friends house, I would have been more subtle and careful on my word choice. However, if you had walked into a Atheist discussion group that I attended (which is more like this situation) I would have responded in the exact same way. That is what this place is, in part, for. |
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:15 am
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