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 Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:43 pm
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Arios V Tenth Speed Writer bluefire243 No... The people that say Jesus loves you believe that Jesus is in heaven watching over you to protect you... That’s why there are so many murders and assaults and rapes and starving children... because Jesus is protecting us... makes perfect sense, don’t it? Blunt, but true. I'll second that. Also, I would assume that many of these people don't even know that before the Reformation, God/Jesus did not love them.
Quoted for truth. See my Many Faces of Yaweh rant. XD |
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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:22 pm
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Theophrastus Arios V Tenth Speed Writer bluefire243 No... The people that say Jesus loves you believe that Jesus is in heaven watching over you to protect you... That’s why there are so many murders and assaults and rapes and starving children... because Jesus is protecting us... makes perfect sense, don’t it? Blunt, but true. I'll second that. Also, I would assume that many of these people don't even know that before the Reformation, God/Jesus did not love them. Quoted for truth. See my Many Faces of Yaweh rant. XD
I'll go do that, tomorrow. I'm kinda tired right now, so I think I'll go to bed soon. |
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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:41 pm
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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:42 pm
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:16 am
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SaintChaos bluefire243 No... The people that say Jesus loves you believe that Jesus is in heaven watching over you to protect you... That’s why there are so many murders and assaults and rapes and starving children... because Jesus is protecting us... makes perfect sense, don’t it? oh yes, life to be served on a silver platter. oh yes, just fix everything and we all live in a naive happy environment learning NOTHING. sorry to inform you buddy but thats not how it works.
Almost as if there was no one out there looking after people...
Tell me this, what point is there in allowing someone to rape and murder a two year old girl? If there is some divinity watching over us all, and allowing these things to happen, then that "divinity" is not worthy of worship. |
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:55 pm
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SaintChaos Sanguvixen ProjectOmicron88 Jesus loves me? Aren't Christians supposed to be offended by that? They could be if thier god loves them, and non-believers too.
I've never really thought about the saying. It should be "Jesus will love you...if you come to our side." actually according to scripture God loves you regardless of what you are. he sent his son to die on the cross for EVERYONE'S sins, not just the believers.
Even if we've never sinned in our life? Well, there's still original sin from Adam and Eve, I guess, but I still fail to see how ALL humans are born sinners because of a couple simps listening to a talking snake. Thanks a lot, you navel-less heaps. |
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:20 pm
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:49 am
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Theophrastus Child prostitution, rape, AIDS - these things are indefensible. So if God made all people and all things and has, by his Divine Plan (TM) allowed them to happen then he is responsible. The reason theists have to hide behind "we can't understand God's will" is the same reason nobody has ever replied to the Riddle of Epicurus; because there is no answer but that there is no God.
don't blame the guilt of mankind and his actions on god. this is my take on the whole "allowing it to happen" theory.
Without suffering in the world what the hell would we learn? If a child is to learn why they should not touch the fire and they are told not to but do anyway, they get burned and learn from that experience. but if the child is constantly saved, what is the child truly going to learn if they don't suffer a little.
the disease of aids is spread by mankind. the disease of STD's is spread because people can't keep their legs closed or their d**k in their pants.
there are rapists and child molesters etc etc because some people just choose to be that way or for whatever other reason. but we don't need god to stop this, we have whats called the Police. no not 100% of it can be stopped at once, but as they say "where there is light, there is always darkness" and the vice versa of that is just as true.
evil will always exist just as suffering will always exist.
god how many times do i have to say this.....suffering is caused by one of two things:
1)your own damn fault
2)the idiots around you
Example: Person A hates God because God didn't stop his father from abusing him. But lets look at the statistics here. Its not God's fault that the father is CHOOSING to be a complete d**k head and abuse his son. Its also not God's fault that the mother was STUPID ENOUGH to marry and MATE with a person like that and bare a son only to have the son be yet another victim.
In this example its not the boy's fault but the fault of the mother and father for his suffering. Not God's. And the example I gave is actually true of someone I know because they were ranting to me as to why they hated God etc etc.
Religiously speaking in christian logic, just because you THINK you need or want something now doesn't mean you're going to get it. Sometimes what we think is best for us isn't best at all for that particular place and time. In regards to praying and asking things from God, thats how that kicks in. God can see past present and future. Time is unlimited to him and he can see as far into the future as he wants. Regarding his plan individually for each of us, he knows the choices we would make and the consequences of that choice good or bad. So just because we want something, doesn't mean it might be the best thing for us.
So if I pray for like a million bucks right now, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be getting it any time soon or probably ever. I could also pray for the ability to fly like a bird, but that probably isn't going to happen for whatever reasons.
Its not as plain as simple as people make it out to be when it comes to God allowing suffering in the world.
Suffering helps us grow and makes us stronger for harder times to come, because guess what buddy, there is always going to be some type of suffering so get used to it. But the most important thing we learn from any suffering in general is the knowledge and experience we gain and the lesson we learn from that suffering. Sometimes the lesson to be learned isn't learned for many years. Sometimes we gain the knowledge right away. It all depends. In short, I'd rather suffer, then to be completely ignorant. |
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:53 am
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Redem SaintChaos bluefire243 No... The people that say Jesus loves you believe that Jesus is in heaven watching over you to protect you... That’s why there are so many murders and assaults and rapes and starving children... because Jesus is protecting us... makes perfect sense, don’t it? oh yes, life to be served on a silver platter. oh yes, just fix everything and we all live in a naive happy environment learning NOTHING. sorry to inform you buddy but thats not how it works. Almost as if there was no one out there looking after people... Tell me this, what point is there in allowing someone to rape and murder a two year old girl? If there is some divinity watching over us all, and allowing these things to happen, then that "divinity" is not worthy of worship.
just because they get away with it on earth doesnt mean they wont get away with it later. the bible says we are ALL held accountable for our sins and the punishment for them is unknown. but no bad deed will go unnoticed. God will deal with it in his own way.
that is why the bible also preaches about judging people. in short "do not judge for ye also shall be judged" something to that affect. |
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:54 pm
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SaintChaos Redem SaintChaos bluefire243 No... The people that say Jesus loves you believe that Jesus is in heaven watching over you to protect you... That’s why there are so many murders and assaults and rapes and starving children... because Jesus is protecting us... makes perfect sense, don’t it? oh yes, life to be served on a silver platter. oh yes, just fix everything and we all live in a naive happy environment learning NOTHING. sorry to inform you buddy but thats not how it works. Almost as if there was no one out there looking after people... Tell me this, what point is there in allowing someone to rape and murder a two year old girl? If there is some divinity watching over us all, and allowing these things to happen, then that "divinity" is not worthy of worship. just because they get away with it on earth doesnt mean they wont get away with it later. the bible says we are ALL held accountable for our sins and the punishment for them is unknown. but no bad deed will go unnoticed. God will deal with it in his own way. that is why the bible also preaches about judging people. in short "do not judge for ye also shall be judged" something to that affect.
That's not enough for some people. They'll invoke God as reason to kill sometimes, and as reason to steal, rape, and loot. Evil is perspective. There's no such thing as something being absolutely evil as long as the person who does it believes in his heart it's either the right way or the only way. And as long as they can repent their sins through Jesus (the only unforgivable one being denial of the Holy Spirit), they figure going to church absolves them, which is pretty much the gist of what the New Testament says, if I have my facts straight. Accepting Jesus gets you into heaven like a Fastpass at Disneyworld. But as long as they feel like they're doing the right thing, people get hurt here.
See, people are too concerned with the afterlife. Atheists don't believe in an afterlife (most of us, at any rate), so we're more concerned with what's going on now, and who's getting hurt NOW, in the land of the living. |
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:23 pm
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:28 pm
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ProjectOmicron88 SaintChaos Redem SaintChaos bluefire243 No... The people that say Jesus loves you believe that Jesus is in heaven watching over you to protect you... That’s why there are so many murders and assaults and rapes and starving children... because Jesus is protecting us... makes perfect sense, don’t it? oh yes, life to be served on a silver platter. oh yes, just fix everything and we all live in a naive happy environment learning NOTHING. sorry to inform you buddy but thats not how it works. Almost as if there was no one out there looking after people... Tell me this, what point is there in allowing someone to rape and murder a two year old girl? If there is some divinity watching over us all, and allowing these things to happen, then that "divinity" is not worthy of worship. just because they get away with it on earth doesnt mean they wont get away with it later. the bible says we are ALL held accountable for our sins and the punishment for them is unknown. but no bad deed will go unnoticed. God will deal with it in his own way. that is why the bible also preaches about judging people. in short "do not judge for ye also shall be judged" something to that affect. That's not enough for some people. They'll invoke God as reason to kill sometimes, and as reason to steal, rape, and loot. Evil is perspective. There's no such thing as something being absolutely evil as long as the person who does it believes in his heart it's either the right way or the only way. And as long as they can repent their sins through Jesus (the only unforgivable one being denial of the Holy Spirit), they figure going to church absolves them, which is pretty much the gist of what the New Testament says, if I have my facts straight. Accepting Jesus gets you into heaven like a Fastpass at Disneyworld. But as long as they feel like they're doing the right thing, people get hurt here. See, people are too concerned with the afterlife. Atheists don't believe in an afterlife (most of us, at any rate), so we're more concerned with what's going on now, and who's getting hurt NOW, in the land of the living.
yeah i know. im just stating that it doesnt matter if they're believer or non believer, their actions will not go unaccounted for. |
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:37 pm
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:49 am
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God treats a fetus (baby) in the womb as a living person.
[url=http://www.dougbrittonbooks.com/onlinebiblestudies-cultureandsocietyinfluences/abortionoflifeinthewomb-sinandgodsforgiveness.asp]this site[/url] [...] Yet you brought me out of the womb; you made me trust in you even at my mother's breast. From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother's womb you have been my God (Psalm 22:9-10). For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be (Psalm 139:13-16). Listen to me, O house of Jacob, all you who remain of the house of Israel, you whom I have upheld since you were conceived, and have carried since your birth. Even to your old age and gray hairs I am he, I am he who will sustain you. I have made you and I will carry you; I will sustain you and I will rescue you (Isaiah 46:3-4).
God created all living things including bacteria, viruses and other illness-creating nasties. Genesis 1:20-27.
Christian doctrine teaches that Christ had to be born with no human father because sin is passed down from the father, however every one of us has a human father, so we are susceptible to sin. It also teaches that the soul enters the zygote upon the moment of conception. And Christian doctrine teaches that all men are fallen and doomed, sin nature inherent in their very being.
SaintChaos but just because a baby dies or is born with defects is not god's fault. they are born however they are born.
Revelation 1:17-18 “( 17 ) When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, ( 18 ) and the living one. I DIED, and BEHOLD I AM ALIVE FOREVERMORE, and I HAVE THE KEYS OF DEATH AND HADES.”
God created disease. God controls life. God controls death.
What are your sources that tell you God can create disease, create life and control death but not be held responsible for any of it?
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:11 am
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