Ever felt bad about making someone doubt their faith?

[Theophrastus]

Going to seminary was the number one factor in my realization that God and religion is bullshit.

And my point is there - if her beliefs were self-evident and infallible then you can't make her feel bad. If she does feel bad as a result of something you said it's surely not your fault, but hers for believing in something so ridiculous that, when faced with its silliness she feels terrible for being swindled.

Now if you're all, "u stpuid xtian b***h u suck cuz gods a f**," then you have a problem and should feel terrible.

But honestly, I know you'd never say that. And I'd probably give a Glasgow Kiss to anyone who did.  

[Rohkaze]

Reichkovich

My ex recently told me about how bad I made her feel while we were dating. She says it was the worst anyone’s made her feel. Which is ironic; imagine how bad her saying that makes me feel. Anyway, it’s all because we had this discussion about religion.

It got pretty heated, to the point where she was yelling at me asking, “Then what are you trying to do? Make me doubt myself?” I later told her that that wasn’t my intention, that I was giving her my beliefs and how it makes her feel isn’t my responsibility. So, now she tells me she wants to study apologetics in college. I can officially check this off as one of my biggest mistakes ever.

So, have any of you ever felt bad about making someone doubt their faith?

I have never felt bad for causing someone to doubt their "faith". In fact, to do so is actually the whole reason I speak out as an atheist.

Now, I have felt bad when I have let my emotions get the better of me. So, if in the process of trying to plant the beautiful seed of honest inquiry into the mind of the superstitiously deceived I go over the top and call them, say, a douchebag when they perhaps didn't deserve it, then, yeah, I might feel bad about that.

But, about steering someone from superstition to a healthy foundation of skepticism and scientific learning? Why would I feel bad about that?  

[Reichkovich]

Rohkaze

Reichkovich

My ex recently told me about how bad I made her feel while we were dating. She says it was the worst anyone’s made her feel. Which is ironic; imagine how bad her saying that makes me feel. Anyway, it’s all because we had this discussion about religion.

It got pretty heated, to the point where she was yelling at me asking, “Then what are you trying to do? Make me doubt myself?” I later told her that that wasn’t my intention, that I was giving her my beliefs and how it makes her feel isn’t my responsibility. So, now she tells me she wants to study apologetics in college. I can officially check this off as one of my biggest mistakes ever.

So, have any of you ever felt bad about making someone doubt their faith?

I have never felt bad for causing someone to doubt their "faith". In fact, to do so is actually the whole reason I speak out as an atheist.

Now, I have felt bad when I have let my emotions get the better of me. So, if in the process of trying to plant the beautiful seed of honest inquiry into the mind of the superstitiously deceived I go over the top and call them, say, a douchebag when they perhaps didn't deserve it, then, yeah, I might feel bad about that.

But, about steering someone from superstition to a healthy foundation of skepticism and scientific learning? Why would I feel bad about that?

Well, my question relates to my experience. When you're trying to inform someone of the ridiculous ways of their belief system that they've come to base their entire outlook on life and you pick it apart, it's no doubt they'll feel all sorts of bad and making someone feel like that doesn't bring me any joy or triumph.  

[Rohkaze]

Reichkovich

Rohkaze

Reichkovich

My ex recently told me about how bad I made her feel while we were dating. She says it was the worst anyone’s made her feel. Which is ironic; imagine how bad her saying that makes me feel. Anyway, it’s all because we had this discussion about religion.

It got pretty heated, to the point where she was yelling at me asking, “Then what are you trying to do? Make me doubt myself?” I later told her that that wasn’t my intention, that I was giving her my beliefs and how it makes her feel isn’t my responsibility. So, now she tells me she wants to study apologetics in college. I can officially check this off as one of my biggest mistakes ever.

So, have any of you ever felt bad about making someone doubt their faith?

I have never felt bad for causing someone to doubt their "faith". In fact, to do so is actually the whole reason I speak out as an atheist.

Now, I have felt bad when I have let my emotions get the better of me. So, if in the process of trying to plant the beautiful seed of honest inquiry into the mind of the superstitiously deceived I go over the top and call them, say, a douchebag when they perhaps didn't deserve it, then, yeah, I might feel bad about that.

But, about steering someone from superstition to a healthy foundation of skepticism and scientific learning? Why would I feel bad about that?

Well, my question relates to my experience. When you're trying to inform someone of the ridiculous ways of their belief system that they've come to base their entire outlook on life and you pick it apart, it's no doubt they'll feel all sorts of bad and making someone feel like that doesn't bring me any joy or triumph.

I think you are misunderstanding my reply.

I did not say I take joy in another person feeling bad. Nor did I say that I challenge a person's faith so that they would feel bad and I could then enjoy their misery. Nor did I suggest that you or anyone else should delight in another person's misery.

I do delight in helping lift the veil of superstition from someone's mind. I do not feel bad about causing someone to doubt their faith. It is true that this can sometimes be a painful process. But, the goal is not the pain, the goal is to help.

I did also mention that I do feel bad when I am hurtful towards other people, including in discussions about science versus religious superstition.

And, while your question relates to your experience, people's responses are going to relate to their experiences. I understand that you felt badly because your heated discussion with your ex-girlfriend caused hard feelings, over which she exacted a certain amount of emotional vengeance. But, do you really regret and feel bad for standing by your values and knowledge? If so, you are falling prey to a psychological tool oft-used by religious groups (though not solely, I might add) - that is, guilt.

In any case, if you were just referring to your own experience, then that's too bad, I hope you get over it. However, by your question, I thought you were inviting others to discuss their opinions and experiences. Hm . . .  

[Reichkovich]

Redem

Reichkovich

Redem

Nope. I would say that if I made someone doubt their faith, that would be a great victory.

The idea that they hold something like that beyond doubt is... freaky. Creeps me out.

Would you still consider it a victory if you made someone you care about feel terrible in the process?

It's not a matter of victory. And I would hope I would handle it more delicately than you seem to have.

It's about approaching things the best way, and blind belief is not the way. I cannot think of a single massacre in history where blind faith in a religion/person/ideal was not a significant factor.

Faith is the worst idea humanity has ever dreamt up.

Yes, I understand that religion is a baddie. But what does the fact that wars of the past were fought in the name of religion have to do with the religious moderates in your life. These people aren't damning homosexuals and preaching the end of time. The only difference between them and us is they take comfort in mythological deities. In fact, they actually have reason, just like us, in their lives. Even though they're strict about letting that reason seep into their religious bubble.

They're can't be blamed for the past they had no control over. In fact, you could use that same argument against whites in generally. I mean white people were behind the majority of all major wars also weren't they? Does that make anyone who's white responsible for what others of their race did in the past?  

[Reichkovich]

Rohkaze

I think you are misunderstanding my reply.

I did not say I take joy in another person feeling bad. Nor did I say that I challenge a person's faith so that they would feel bad and I could then enjoy their misery. Nor did I suggest that you or anyone else should delight in another person's misery.

Nor did I say the same of you.

Rohkaze

I do delight in helping lift the veil of superstition from someone's mind. I do not feel bad about causing someone to doubt their faith. It is true that this can sometimes be a painful process. But, the goal is not the pain, the goal is to help.

I did also mention that I do feel bad when I am hurtful towards other people, including in discussions about science versus religious superstition.

And, while your question relates to your experience, people's responses are going to relate to their experiences. I understand that you felt badly because your heated discussion with your ex-girlfriend caused hard feelings, over which she exacted a certain amount of emotional vengeance. But, do you really regret and feel bad for standing by your values and knowledge? If so, you are falling prey to a psychological tool oft-used by religious groups (though not solely, I might add) - that is, guilt.

No, the only thing I feel bad for and regret is the fact that my opinions directly hurt someone. While it might be childish to believe your beliefs aren't ever going to oppose someone else's and cause them hurt, it's something I simply don't enjoy.

And while that may be a tact by religious groups we're talking about a young girl. It certainly wasn't a direct intention on her behalf. Honestly, you're giving her too much credit. (lol, ex's)

Rohkaze

In any case, if you were just referring to your own experience, then that's too bad, I hope you get over it. However, by your question, I thought you were inviting others to discuss their opinions and experiences. Hm . . .

I was. I was simply stating that it's not the fact I'm bringing a sort of reason to someone's life. It's the fact that they were hurt in the process, in my case, which caused me to feel bad.  

[Rohkaze]

Reichkovich

Rohkaze

In any case, if you were just referring to your own experience, then that's too bad, I hope you get over it. However, by your question, I thought you were inviting others to discuss their opinions and experiences. Hm . . .

I was. I was simply stating that it's not the fact I'm bringing a sort of reason to someone's life. It's the fact that they were hurt in the process, in my case, which caused me to feel bad.

Well, you have compassion and sensitivity. Probably makes you pleasant to be around. I am cantankerous, blunt, and passionately argumentative. I am unpleasant to be around.

You feel bad because someone's feelings were hurt when you challenged their faith. I don't feel bad because I focus on the goal of the discourse. Meh.

Asked. Answered.

Note to self: Outside of ED, not everyone is looking for a debate. xd

By the way, when you say I give your ex-girlfriend too much credit, I think you give her too little. She absolutely knew it was going to make you feel guilty and feel bad when she told you how miserable you made her feel with your little discussion. Oh my! If you are the worst experience in life she has had, she must have a very pampered life indeed. No, I suspect you was miffed to be challenged (often a difficult prospect for people of 'faith' as it forces them to ask themselves some very uncomfortable questions). She didn't like being put in an awkward situation, so she gave you a little emotional jab right where she knew you were weakest. Might be worth considering the next time you challenge someone on their superstitions.  

[Reichkovich]

Rohkaze

By the way, when you say I give your ex-girlfriend too much credit, I think you give her too little. She absolutely knew it was going to make you feel guilty and feel bad when she told you how miserable you made her feel with your little discussion. Oh my! If you are the worst experience in life she has had, she must have a very pampered life indeed. No, I suspect you was miffed to be challenged (often a difficult prospect for people of 'faith' as it forces them to ask themselves some very uncomfortable questions). She didn't like being put in an awkward situation, so she gave you a little emotional jab right where she knew you were weakest. Might be worth considering the next time you challenge someone on their superstitions.

Duly noted. Though, I still have an inclination to believe that it wasn't her intention based simply based on how I know her. Although I can understand your point and it certainly makes sense. But it's something I don't know for sure.  

[Interstellar headphones]

I would feel bad about upsetting them...but then get over it and let them know that now they're in the real world...deal (picks up and places back on topic razz )  

[=X-Sparker + AquaKiller=]

I know how you feel,
i've got a muslim friend and sometimes she and i argue thru IM about the existence of god,
and yea honestly i feel bad when she couldn't come up with anymore evidences to argue with me,
but later we'd just say that "wow, that was some debate" and we'd get over it and live on like nothing happened...
we'd still love each other, we don't get all worked up by it...

 

[Kharybuce]

The irony of my situation was that I was the one who turned her religious then made her doubt her faith. As I've said in this guild before, I used to be very Christian. At the peak of my piety, I dated a girl who was very skeptical. After a long period of dating I made her believe. Then we broke up, and quite some time later, although now a few years ago, we meet up again and hung out. When I explained that I was now Atheist and went into the details as of why, she started crying. Her words were "It hurts so bad to know the one person who made you believe in something then trurns around and says it is all a lie." She later explained that she was sad not just because she felt lied to be my, but also because I had lost the ability to believe in the unbelievable. *Sigh.* That was a bad night. sad  

[AnonymouZ]

Kharybuce

The irony of my situation was that I was the one who turned her religious then made her doubt her faith. As I've said in this guild before, I used to be very Christian. At the peak of my piety, I dated a girl who was very skeptical. After a long period of dating I made her believe. Then we broke up, and quite some time later, although now a few years ago, we meet up again and hung out. When I explained that I was now Atheist and went into the details as of why, she started crying. Her words were "It hurts so bad to know the one person who made you believe in something then trurns around and says it is all a lie." She later explained that she was sad not just because she felt lied to be my, but also because I had lost the ability to believe in the unbelievable. *Sigh.* That was a bad night. sad

Hmm. I bet i can make a very funny joke out of this. No disrespect.  

[CaprinaePsi]

Feel bad about what? About making the person see the argument through another's eyes? I'm sorry, but I do not pity people who feel bad after learning of other people's opinions. Obviously, I won't be a d**k about it, but I won't feel bad about it. Doubt is a good thing. It helps us assure ourselves, without doubt we would do/believe in anything that crossed our paths. It is doubt that keeps us from thinking that jumping from a plane, even with a parachute, is safe. It keeps us alive and thinking. Yes, there is a point that doubt just starts to harm instead of help, but it's the same with everything.

At least, that's my opinion.  

[Kharybuce]

AnonymouZ

Kharybuce

The irony of my situation was that I was the one who turned her religious then made her doubt her faith. As I've said in this guild before, I used to be very Christian. At the peak of my piety, I dated a girl who was very skeptical. After a long period of dating I made her believe. Then we broke up, and quite some time later, although now a few years ago, we meet up again and hung out. When I explained that I was now Atheist and went into the details as of why, she started crying. Her words were "It hurts so bad to know the one person who made you believe in something then trurns around and says it is all a lie." She later explained that she was sad not just because she felt lied to be my, but also because I had lost the ability to believe in the unbelievable. *Sigh.* That was a bad night. sad

Hmm. I bet i can make a very funny joke out of this. No disrespect.

What? I wanna know what it is. biggrin  

[Levis Pennae]

I am a debater at heart, so making people think things is in my blood. But I won't just scream out "I'm atheist, let all those who believe in God come and fight!!". If someone brings up religion, asks me what I am, and starts to convert me I just slap them in the face with the full blunt force of reason. At this they walk away with an extremely worried face like "OMG, what just happened. Does God even exist?". I might be different then most people in actually finding joy in manipulating peoples personalities, thought, beliefs, and just their minds in general.