Eambar: Off-Topic Thread

[Falathrim]

TenshinoHikari

I may be republican, but that's because all I really want is a home to call my own were my children can grow up without fear of being made fun of or worry about being killed. That's it. I don't know that anyone else really wants anything more either.

Wait, are you suggesting that Democrats want to kidnap your children and submit them to cruel and unusual torture? Because they want safe and peaceful homes and families for the children, too. They just don't believe that the Republicans are going about it the right way.

EDIT: And while the war may have been to eliminate a threat, there were far worse threats at the time. Why did we choose Iraq? Why are we now gunning for Iran, where there are places like North Korea which have gone so far as to threaten their neighbors?

We went to war with Iraq because our President told us they had WMDs. Ironically, we haven't found any, and our President now says that was never the issue.  

[Khorkalba]

Falathrim

You know, Longbow, the general idea of a government is that the government does what is best for their own nation. Others come second. As much as I may despise Bush and his policies, if he were acting in the best interests of Europe and thinking about his own nation second, I'd probably want to kill the guy for being completely inept at what he was elected to do. Which, obviously, was to govern America.

What Hitler and the Nazi party did was in the best interest of Germany, was it not? They put other countries second. wink

Don't take that the wrong way, i'm not comparing the US government to the Nazi regime, I am merely making the point that yes, of course they should put their own nation first, but that doesn't make it right to go and crush others, does it?

Quote:

And I'm skeptical of the idea that the current administration hates Islam. Sure, they're so Christian it's depressing, but I really don't think they have genocide on their agenda.

I forget which president it was who said it, but they admitted that they saw the world of Islam as a threat. After Iran I can honestly see America starting on somewhere like Saudi Arabia... They will convince the nation that they are at risk once more, and make the association between Islam and terror as they do with every country/nation/culture they don't like. Just as they did with the Soviets. rolleyes

Quote:

EDIT: And while the war may have been to eliminate a threat, there were far worse threats at the time. Why did we choose Iraq? Why are we now gunning for Iran, where there are places like North Korea which have gone so far as to threaten their neighbors?

Why Iraq? Maybe because Bush wanted to finish off his fathers work... or maybe because it's the second largest oil supply in the world. neutral What's the 3rd largest? Iran.

TenshinoHikari

....major ouch. You're turning the war on Iraq into some kind of holy war. We don't care what the Islamics believe believe. Our country was build on the freedom of religion. The war in Iraq was against Suddam. He was a threat (the guy had rape rooms and killed innocent children for heaven sakes). I don't see how someone like him isn't a threat to the civilized world because he was power hungry.
I may be republican, but that's because all I really want is a home to call my own were my children can grow up without fear of being made fun of or worry about being killed. That's it. I don't know that anyone else really wants anything more either. America doesn't want to take over the world. We want to protect ourselves and the rights we hold most dear.
It isn't an attack on religion, its an attack on a man. One man. You may disagree with it, but I will stand by my country and I will not tolerate generalizations. You judge by what the media shows you and you know what, the media has reached the point that it is the exact opposite of journalism. It isn't unbiased, its about as biased as it gets. Do no judge what you do not know.

You want to protect yourselves? lol From what? Wake up and face the facts! Saddam had NOTHING to do with 9/11. Despite what Bush may of said. And there were NO "weapons of mass destruction" so where was the danger, eh? What were you protecting yourselves from?

Were the Soviets really a threat to America after WW2? Hardly! Yes, they needed a certain level of containment, but come on! You went and crushed them and forced your own way of life onto them!
. You didn't like the communist way of life.
. You didn't like there being another superpower in the world.
. You associated communists with terrorists.
. When they tried to gain economic influence abroad you accused them of trying to take over the world.
. Reagan said all world problems can be traced back to the USSR.

Where was the threat? There wasn't one. It was all bullshit.

Is Islam really a threat to America? Of course not... but that's the idea that will be forced into the minds of American public when they're finished with Iran. rolleyes  

[Falathrim]

Dammit I know exactly what I want to say but am having difficulties putting it in words that doesn't make me look like an idiot, so bear with me.

*sigh*

Okay, Germany acted in the best interests of themselves. They, however, didn't even stop to think about the best interests of others. While it is expected of a government do to what is best for their nation, it is expected that they avoid bringing harm to others, when it can be helped. Germany deliberately brought harm to other nations for no reason save improving the stature of the Third Reich.

We, however, are not out to KILL YOU ALL MWUHAHAH FINAL SOLUTION! While our intentions are a bit... suspect, we are at least doing so in the name of freedom and democracy and what have you. We have not grabbed women and children and thrown them in giant ovens. We are instead overthrowing evil dictators who gas the women and children and then allowing said women to vote.

The issue at hand is whether or not giving the women of children the right to vote was our primary intent. To most people, it certainly was not. But the point remains that it was at least our secondary intent, and that alone can differentiate the American Empire Republic from Nazi Germany.

And oil, though probably a big part of Bush's desire to go to Iraq, was in all likeliness not the only reason. I'll believe the people who say we wanted a democratic and Islamic locale in the Middle-east.  

[TenshinoHikari]

I still have issues about the weapons. The fact is the potential was there, and I highly doubt Suddam would have hesitated to use them. If he had nothing to fear than why was he hiding? I'm sorry, but we gave him enough time to get rid of them if he wanted to make Bush look like an idiot. Not all Islamics are terrorists, but some are and would take weapons like that in a heart beat. That idea terrifies me.

Falathrim, I didn't mean Democrats. Democrats are just more liberal and while I'm a fairly liberal republic (minus the abortion issue) they aren't as much into the dream my History teacher discribed (a little house with grass and a white picket fence with children playing in the front yard and a mini van parked in the drive way). They're more the "do what's good for the now" then the "do what's good for the future" type thinking (at least some of them are).

By taking away that dream, I was referring to terrorists. Democrats do not equal terrorists.  

[Khorkalba]

Quote:

Okay, Germany acted in the best interests of themselves. They, however, didn't even stop to think about the best interests of others. While it is expected of a government do to what is best for their nation, it is expected that they avoid bringing harm to others, when it can be helped. Germany deliberately brought harm to other nations for no reason save improving the stature of the Third Reich.

We, however, are not out to KILL YOU ALL MWUHAHAH FINAL SOLUTION! While our intentions are a bit... suspect, we are at least doing so in the name of freedom and democracy and what have you. We have not grabbed women and children and thrown them in giant ovens. We are instead overthrowing evil dictators who gas the women and children and then allowing said women to vote.

Ever heard the saying: America is taking over the world through stealthy means?

You may not be directly invading countries, killing as you go, but you are removing world leaders (often replacing them with puppet ones for American benefit *cough*Afganistan*cough*) And you are slowly taking a grip hold on the world. Through power and economy.  

[TenshinoHikari]

Heard, yes. Believe it, no.  

[Falathrim]

TenshinoHikari

*snip because I hate long quotes*

You can't get rid of something that doesn't exist. :/

The inspections crews have been saying for the past two, three years that Saddams WMD program was completely disbanded after the First Gulf War. What reason do we have to doubt the UN Weapons Inspections Team? What reason do we have to doubt the US Weapons Inspetcions Team?

The point is that we have completely given up on looking for them. We no longer have any desire to find them! If they exist, wouldn't it probably be a good idea to keep looking, lest a random insurgent happen upon them? You could say they're in Syria, or somewhere else, true... but then why aren't we inspecting Syria, then?

And some Americans are terrorists. Should we invade the homes of Americans?  

[Khorkalba]

TenshinoHikari

I still have issues about the weapons. The fact is the potential was there, and I highly doubt Suddam would have hesitated to use them. If he had nothing to fear than why was he hiding? I'm sorry, but we gave him enough time to get rid of them if he wanted to make Bush look like an idiot. Not all Islamics are terrorists, but some are and would take weapons like that in a heart beat. That idea terrifies me.

*sigh* You must really be naive to think that. As I said, people like Bush drive fear into the American public, convincing them that their lives are in danger, which is complete rubbish!

Besides, may I remind you that America has more weapons of mass destruction than any other nation. Does it not?

Yet they are always quick to control other nations having them. neutral  

[Falathrim]

Longbow UK

*snip again*

Stealthfully invading the world? Hmmm.

...take back what we've taken, then. If we've grown powerful economically, then that's because everyone else let us.

EDIT: This post sucks, I know. But taking notes for a lecture and debating all at once is a bit hard, so I'd hope you forgive me. razz  

[TenshinoHikari]

I'll agree to that as long as they follow all the steps outlined in the constitiution to get a search warrent.

Look, I'm not trying to step on anyones toes. But I love my country. I love my freedom and I love what it has stood for historically. I support its ideals and the ideas it was founded upon. I don't tolerate generlizations and I don't like it, though I will tolerate, people who see only the negetive about what's going on.  

[Onoj]

True we do have several Weapons of Mass Destruction but we have never used them idly, nor have we threatened other countries with them. But in my opinion the United States (and we aren't the only ones) try to keep in check nations that our government feels is inferior. Nations in high power try to "keep in check" "lower" nations with new inventions we don't feel like they can handle or that they deserve. Pretty much like an a*****e parent who keeps their small children from playing with toys that, in their idea, may harm themselves or other "children."

So we think we are doing what is right when in fact it is just slapping usin the face. And I have no problem with that because at least America is doing it in a VERY public matter. It is other countries who solve problems with "under-the-table" talk and "negotiations" in secret that worries me and really makes me wonder who is taking over the world in a stealthy way. Those who announce it or those who don't?  

[Khorkalba]

TenshinoHikari

Look, I'm not trying to step on anyones toes. But I love my country. I love my freedom and I love what it has stood for historically. I support its ideals and the ideas it was founded upon. I don't tolerate generlizations and I don't like it, though I will tolerate, people who see only the negetive about what's going on.

What I enjoy about studying American history is that most of it is from a neutral and unbias point of view. And lets just say your history doesn't look so bright and glorious from this viewpoint. wink

The one thing that really annoys me is hearing comments like "We saved your asses in world war two" or "We saved the world from the evil communist Russians" rolleyes It makes me wonder what those American history teachers are telling people. lol American pride does make me laugh sometimes...

Note: I'm not suggesting that all Americans are like that, before anyone jumps to conclusions, I'm just saying that there are quite a few that do think like that.
Note2: Let's not twist this into a discussion about English history. I know ours isn't exactly much better.  

[Glorfirith Annun]

Good old, Canada is all I have to say ninja

And I'm now going to run because... that's what I do biggrin  

[Khorkalba]

Onoj

True we do have several Weapons of Mass Destruction but we have never used them idly, nor have we threatened other countries with them. But in my opinion the United States (and we aren't the only ones) try to keep in check nations that our government feels is inferior. Nations in high power try to "keep in check" "lower" nations with new inventions we don't feel like they can handle or that they deserve. Pretty much like an a*****e parent who keeps their small children from playing with toys that, in their idea, may harm themselves or other "children."

So we think we are doing what is right when in fact it is just slapping usin the face. And I have no problem with that because at least America is doing it in a VERY public matter. It is other countries who solve problems with "under-the-table" talk and "negotiations" in secret that worries me and really makes me wonder who is taking over the world in a stealthy way. Those who announce it or those who don't?

How can you know that there are no "under-the-table talks" and "negotiations" going on? confused Did the American people know how close they were to nuclear war throughout the cold war? Hardly. Did they know about the Cuban missle crisis at the time? No.  

[Zurgi]

Glorfirith Annun

Good old, Canada is all I have to say ninja

And I'm now going to run because... that's what I do biggrin

Booyah.

Yeah, I'm staying out of this debate. I have my opinions and whatnot, but don't want to get into this because I don't know enough to properly back those opinions up.