~CT's Brawl Guide~ on hold.

[Al Torrenz]

Gikaru

Hah, alright then. Also, I never use Ike's Neutral Air too often. The only times I can recall using it is jumping from a ledge (or back on the stage if recovering) and fast falling one. Otherwise, I'm always doing a retreating Forward Air. I don't play so well aggressively. sweatdrop

I don't use it at all unless I'm trying things out. It's so looooong.

Yes, I use that forward air retreat thing, too. Sometimes the run-turnaround-backwardsjump-backair, but that's a little too trickyfor me to do fluently.  

[bloodsoaked]

I use wavebouncing for a recovery. Especially with Lucas and his psy-magnet.
Since Diddy is my main sometimes I'll do a reverse peanut gun to recover. =D  

[Yin Yun Yang]

I'll have to try it out I think, or try to do it at least.  

[Rhed King]

Ike's good moves:

Standard A combo
Bair
Down throw (but why are you grabbing if they're close enough to use standard A?)
Up B

A campy Ike on Shadow Moses is such a pain to deal with, he'll just keep using standard A anytime you get close, which is all the time if you're not a strong projectile character or tether-er

and Ike has crazy range, so he can hit you before you connect with him.  

[Yin Yun Yang]

I dislike fighting Ike, most of the time. The attack range is insane it is.  

[otawara]

scream  

[Al Torrenz]

otawara

scream

SEND ME THE BOWSER GUIDE AGAIN HSKAGKARGNASK=RH  

[otawara]

ChaosTorrent

otawara

scream

SEND ME THE BOWSER GUIDE AGAIN HSKAGKARGNASK=RH

K, I WILL HR=KSANGRAKGAKSH  

[Al Torrenz]

I've just updated two new guides, both written by good ol' Otawara.

They're Donkey Kong


and Bowser


, which are without doubt the most awesome representats of each their species. Enjoy!  

[Yin Yun Yang]

Huzzah! I enjoy playing Bowser on occasion, and donkey kong, more so bowser though.  

[Gikaru]

I see lots of awkward things in the Bowser guide. For one, Jab and Side Tilt are your staple ground attacks. Side Tilt especially, as a well-aimed Side Tilt can beat numerous attacks. For example, if angled upwards, it can beat the h0rnado AND Marth's fAir. Up Tilt is also stronger than the Up Smash, and I always see MrEh use a reverse Up Tilt when he has the chance. Perhaps it's stronger as it nears the end?

The two mains things I know best about Bowser is what a Bowser is supposed to use in every game: OOSuB (Out-of-shield uB), and Grabs. Ever watch what happens when Bowser's impossibly huge shield is being pressured? They come out with an uB, which makes Bowser invincible for the first several frames. It's weird, though, because Bowser should also be immune to grabs during those frams, and he's not.

Bowser's best bet in a match, besides the OOSuB, is his grab game. Bowser has indisputably the best grab game, not the chain-grabbing penguin. He just has dthrow and bthrow, and the occasional fthrow. Anyway, there's a sort of joke that MrEh and I made up, and it's not one to be taken lightly, no matter how sarcastic we may sound.

MrEh

If you're throwing with Bowser, you're doing it WRONG!

Of course, throwing is still something you should do, but very rarely. Bowser has the best grab game because he can just grab-hit-release-grab-hit-release almost everyone to the edge. On top of that, his release has barely any lag, which allows him to do just about anything. I can name one right now, and it's to be used on a Marth: Grab-Release-1st Jab-Bowser Bomb. I've seen this pulled off on numerous Marths (including myself) here in Hawaii, and there is NOTHING you can do.

In any case, everyone on the boards who actually knows something about Brawl agrees that Bowser sucks. All of his match-ups, save for Captain Falcon (who sucks so bad, I'd argue he has an advantage on himself), are in the opponents' favor. HOWEVER, there are only a few characters that are actually higher than 60-40 vs Bowser (Bowser's disadvantage): and most are a bunch of grabbing jerks. Olimar, I'm not so sure of, but Ice Climbers, Dedede, and Diddy have incredibly high advantages against Bowser. Bowser is so screwed up in Brawl when it comes to match-ups, that Bowser can actually beat a Snake or Meta Knight (of the same skill level) if the player actually tried.

I don't know crap about DK, except he can be gay with the fThrow against characters with crappy recoveries.

EDIT:

Rhed King

Ike's good moves:

Standard A combo
Bair
Down throw (but why are you grabbing if they're close enough to use standard A?)
Up B

A campy Ike on Shadow Moses is such a pain to deal with, he'll just keep using standard A anytime you get close, which is all the time if you're not a strong projectile character or tether-er

and Ike has crazy range, so he can hit you before you connect with him.

Just...no. You were right about the Jab being one of Ike's best moves, and Ike's "crazy range." However, you're off everywhere else.

bAir is Ike's fastest aerial, and that's it. We all know 99 percent of Ike's movelist kills.
dThrow is something an Ike shouldn't do all the time. It should usually be bThrow->Dash Attack, or fThrow. I say fThrow because it's so fast, you might catch your opponent off guard. dThrow is just to stick them in the air so you could apply more pressure.
uB isn't one of Ike's best moves, but instead is one of Ike's campiest moves. Of course, unless you're playing friendlies or in an irregular tournament, it won't matter because Planking is banned. So is the Shadow Moses stage.

And if an Ike is camping with Jab, that's pretty bad if you can't get past it. A good Ike uses Jab because it's Ike best ground attack, and for good reason. First, it's his fast ground attack. Second, the first and second hit are easy to Jab Cancel, and it's good if you do because they have almost no knockback whatsoever. The third hit is to knock them away.  

[Al Torrenz]

Why does everyone keep commenting on Ota's guides? D< Show me some love, too!

@Gikaru
I can't comment on what you say about bowser since I don't play him alot myself nor do I have people to fight that use him regularly, but how does captain falcon suck? I don't really worry about tier lists, but seeing him ALWAYS being among the bottom three just confuses me. I want clarification on what makes every other character have advantages against him. Cause I don't see many. And since you seem to agree with him sucking, I shall demand justification from you. cool

Like, what doesn't he have? The only thing that captain falcon seems to lack is a really lame, spammable move. Which I don't mind.  

[Gikaru]

Quote:

The only thing that captain falcon seems to lack is a really lame, spammable move.

You are correct. Falcon has no real spammable move that's that gay, unless using Falcon Punch over and over again fits your style. wink

Falcon is bad for many reasons. When I look back on Melee, what the hell did Falcon REALLY have? He was super fast, super gay with the knee, and on top of all that, actually had combos. He also had a great MINDGAMEZ ability, but I don't count that crap unless I'm playing Meta Knight. But what's Falcon have now? Just the super fast part. Let's take a look at his ground movelist, first. And for Brawl, obviously. I don't know crap about Melee, except the tiers and how that really did matter in Melee, assuming you weren't Taj.

The jab. It is, indisputably, Falcon's very best ground move. It is equivalent to the gayness of his uAir (which in turn isn't very lame at all). Why? Unlike a majority of Falcon's moves, his jab has unbelievable priority. What's priority? Try clashing together Ganon's Warlock Punch with Ike's Forward Smash. Who wins? Neither, because both moves have the same amount of priority, which cancels both attacks out.
Moving back to the jab, Falcon's jab comes out fast, and because I'm not Mew2King I can't be frame-specific with it. On top of that, jab canceling is a must with it, as Falcon's throws, while not the best, are great for applying pressure, which is just about all Falcon has. It has incredible priority, as stated before, because it can actually cancel out or even out-prioritize many other moves. But there's no point, as the jab comes out real fast. On top of that, the Gentleman is still a viable thing to do. The Gentlemen is using the jab combo, but stopping right after the knee and before his multi-hitting attacks. In fact, it's probably more useful now compared to Melee because, if you time it right, doing just the 1st jab, 2nd jab, or the Gentlemen will result in hitting your opponent so fast, they can't shield. The only thing they could do is DI out of it, and even then you're safe.
There's not much to say about his uAir, other than that it's Falcon's best aerial. Falcon's aerials aren't as bad as his ground moves, and it's obvious for some. The knee of justice is still great, but just harder to sweetspot with. The stomp is now impossible to spike when opponents are at his chest, unlike in Melee where only a lagged stomp won't spike. His bAir...I've got nothing on that. It's one of his better aerials. His double-kick isn't a killer, but rather a move that'll set your opponent for another hit due to its low knockback, assuming you did the move right. However, his best aerial, the uAir somersault, is like Ganon's (or rather, is the original somersault): it's fast, has range that covers most of Falcon's hurtbox, and has four levels of power. Obviously, the first and strongest level is at the very first opening frames, and the weakest (but probably one of the better parts) at the end.

Now, despite all of his decent moves, you have to remember the lag on each move. The aerials, if you're using the knee or stomp, are very punishable. Falcon's tilts and smashes are very punishable as well, and his specials are OBVIOUSLY punishable. This wouldn't be a problem, but it is. Why? Because Falcon has no good approaches. I can't think of a decent approach, even while taking spacing into account, as each of Falcon's moves are just bad like that. Did I mention that Falcon is huge target when it comes to gimping? Launch him off the ledge, and you're basically painting death all over him. Like some unfortunate characters (people with tether recoveries, Lucario, etc.), Falcon is gimping bait. However, the others tend of have something that could help them. Olimar is somewhat floaty and may be able to use an aerial on an edgehogger, or could have a Purple Pikmin in his ranks to throw. Lucario is too floaty and heavy to gimp at all, and a Lucario who knows how to use DI won't ever be caught in a possible gimp situation. Plus, Lucario can just aim his recovery towards a wall and hang around for a while.

On top of that, the three characters down at the bottom of the list with Falcon (but above) can simply outrange him. Link has projectiles, the sword, and his stupid zAir. Ganon is bigger, meaner, stronger, and has more viable attacks, but probably just as bad with approaches. Possibly worse. Jigglypuff has aerial Pound (MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF PRIORITY), OOSRest, and her sexy aerials. Falcon just can't beat that. Against any other character, I'd argue that Falcon may have a better chance. For example, Mario. Mario ALSO sucks, though not as bad, and what keeps him from being that damn low (even though he's low enough) is beyond me. But Mario has, at least, a projectile and decent approaches. Falcon has nothing but the PAUNCH and the Knee.

I've got more, but school starts in a bit, so I'll add it later. Since I didn't have so much time, I didn't get to put up specifics on his other moves.

Also, Falcon has a horrible grab range, whether it be a standing, running, or pivot grab. It's funny how pivot grabbing has its own different ranges. And at least he's not Pit, who has the worst overall grab range. Maybe it's me, but I'd rather use Falcon than the girly angel who doesn't know how to walk. Seriously, he skips and runs, and that's it.
I also read only the guides I want to. I guess it so happens that your guides are fine, or none of us know enough about them to say they're, ahem, "awkward" at some parts.  

[Al Torrenz]

Alright, I see your points. Maybe I would know if I played against more human players. Too bad switzerland is too far away from just about any place not in europe. bleh.  

[otawara]

I think Capt. Falcon is a great fighter, not joking.