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[Kegan]

Nimble Cultist

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 6:45 pm


I have skype on my cacky smart phone. Who wants to vidyo chat?

Also, my voice sounds totally different recorded by this microphone.
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:23 pm


all mics are different. and sometimes the playback through the phone can be different as well.

Xilo The Odd


Zephyrkitty

Beloved Lunatic

9,400 Points
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 1:50 am


16-bit Jazzy
You can develop it as a little kid, just as you can develop straight feelings that early? It may not be true, but it's an interesting thought. You don't really choose who you like. You don't really choose what you like in general, you just do. You can only pretend not to like something you really like. You don't develop a lot of likes and dislikes until you age (to became a kid rather than a baby), which is also when you develop sexual feelings. You develop all likes and dislikes within a society, and that has an immense influence on how you turn out. I can see it and one's personal life experiences influencing what kind of people they get attracted to. For example, my boyfriend is repulsed by the idea of getting a professional massage from another man - but where does this repulsion come from? It's obviously not something he was just born with - he was socialized to fear being in any sort of "gay" situation, as I'm sure were all his male peers. What if they were taught that being feminine or gay was perfectly fine for either gender? Maybe a lot more of them would actually be gay, let alone more tolerant of "gay" situations.

I don't entirely agree that homosexuality is entirely equivalent to finding massages from other men repulsive. If society taught that feminine and/or gay things don't necessarily need to be shunned, then he'd probably feel different about massages, yeah. But it doesn't necessarily mean that he'd be gay. GLBT people are still born in countries where homosexuality is considered sinful or worthy of the death penalty, and straight people are still born in societies where homosexuality is viewed positively; there's more to your orientation than societal views.

As for life experiences, there's a view among some of the GLBT community that sexuality is fluid and can change. There's a lot of disagreement about whether or not this is true and what causes these changes, though.


16-bit Jazzy
I have a hard time understanding "just knowing" because I have had feelings for women from a young age, but because I started dating ONE guy I've felt straight and I only experience sexual desire for the male body, but I almost feel that I could go either way depending on the circumstances. I almost wish I just always preferred one gender over the other so it made more sense. x_x It makes me wonder how other people think like that. How do they not just like people because they like them, not because some biological law is saying that they will like only one gender?

I think I wasn't entirely clear in my other post so let me attempt to explain a thing: The problem I was specifically commenting on was that you find your favorite games or foods or whatever through experiencing them. I didn't know that Persona 4 was one of my favorite games until after I played it. Someone who says that their favorite food is steak or chocolate or pizza or whatever has probably eaten it at least once. That socialization or previous experience is necessary to calling something a favorite. On the other hand, a lot of people can tell you what gender(s) they're attracted to without having sex with someone from the group or even necessarily being in a romantic relationship.

That doesn't necessarily mean sexual orientation is never confusing or unexpected, though. Some people figure it out at an early age, while other people don't figure it out until sometime into adulthood. Some people think they have it all figured out and then realize it's less straightforward, like you. And some people do have to have sex to figure it out, and that's fair too. But for a lot of people who you're sexually attracted to is something that you know before you're agreeing to a relationship or sleeping together, even when it does get confusing. The socialization or previous experience isn't always necessary to figuring out who you find sexually attractive. Does that make more sense, or not?

As for liking and not liking based on gender, it's kind of a non-issue? I've known a lot of men that were really great people that I wouldn't date and/or have sex with, but I'm not sexually attracted to them so I'm not really going to think about it that way. I have female friends that I think are great people that I wouldn't date and/or have sex with too, so it doesn't really seem all that weird to me.


16-bit Jazzy
The raised by wolves thing was said my professor. I can't really find a link to just that, but apparently these things come from this film. I need to watch it sometime.

I don't have time to watch this right now, so I'll give it a look later. Sorry.


16-bit Jazzy
One thing I don't like about the article is that she kind of says that homosexuality is a choice, and that she just "chose" to be a lesbian after taking a women's studies course... I don't get that at all. You can't choose who you're attracted to, that's for sure. Maybe she chose to embrace what was already there.

Political lesbianism ugh
In a nutshell: The majority of feminists and the most of the feminism movement in general are pretty cool and want to eliminate gender discrimination because men and women and anyone who doesn't neatly fit those labels should be treated equally.
Then there are the radical feminists who feel that gender equality is impossible and the best thing to do is for the women to go make their own separate communities and to "convert" to being lesbians and whatnot. I don't know; I've stumbled on a couple of bloggers who subscribe to the idea and it always comes across as really bizarre.

But yeah, I don't really consider it when discussing homosexuality for the same reasons that you mentioned.


16-bit Jazzy
And I know you can't change your orientation, and that homosexuality is natural in other animals. Of course it's not unnatural, but that's how it's sometimes treated. And getting married wouldn't change that either. By personal experiences I meant all personal experiences - even very small ones. Every tiny experience changes and shapes you just a little.

Marriage is a life experience too, though. If orientation is largely shaped by one's personal experiences, why wouldn't such a major life event have an impact?
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 1:54 am


Meta_Fish
Zephyrkitty
I could buy the idea that orientation isn't 100% determined by genetics, but 'it's a taste you develop like your favorite game' is one of the stupidest arguments I've heard outside of anti-gay groups insisting that homosexuality is a choice.
That' a good way to win your argument, just shove it down someone's throat. It's open to discussion and by acting like people that think it might be a choice (as is heterosexuality) we make somewhere along the lines in our lives are close-minded just makes YOU come off as close-minded.

When someone says "I think being gay or straight might be up to preference, not genetics," gay-right activists act like we're saying the equivalent of "I think black people are genetically slavemen." Don't abhor an opinion that hasn't just been reinforced to strengthen your viewpoint on an issue that's close to you. Try to consider it. We're all considering it MIGHT be genetic.

Jazzy wasn't claiming that homosexuality is a choice; she was arguing that it's almost (if not completely) shaped by life experiences.

And there is an immense amount of evidence that your orientation isn't something you can control; I even gave a couple of examples in my original response to her. We can debate and research how much of homosexuality is caused by nature vs. nurture and the idea that sexuality is fluid, but it being a choice is absolutely not up for debate.

I did consider her viewpoint? That's why I responded to what she said with several problems that I had with her theory. Consideration can end with disagreement and a strengthening of your position as a result, as well.

Zephyrkitty

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old jazzy

Amorous Fatcat

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:42 am


Zephyrkitty
I think you're shaped gradually by experiences. Maybe marriage could eventually change some people's minds about whether they like their new spouse, but just because it's a big event doesn't mean that it necessarily has more power to change a person. And if it does, then it's still not enough on its own to shape every person like that - they might feel different in other ways as a result of it, but getting married absolutely does not always affect sexual orientation on its own.

Okay, so forget the game comparison. What about your favorite color? Did you experience your favorite color? No. But you've seen and and you know you like it. You like how it looks, you find it attractive. We don't know why it's your favorite color. Maybe there's something in your brain that makes you predisposed to liking it, but if that were true we'd probably all have the same favorite color. You probably just like it because you are you, and you have been shaped by your very unique life experiences, and after all that's happened, you decided that this was the color for you. Maybe attraction to people works the same way. Also maybe having sex is just another experience that influences who you're attracted to.

I personally am not sure how much biology influences an individual's personality. Maybe it plays a role in even your favorite color. I just think that socialization and an individual's unique set of experiences seem to have the most profound effect on who they become, and people generally like to include sexual orientation as a part of what makes up a person's identity.

And you don't have to apologize for not watching the film. I haven't seen it either. xd Just saying, if you're interested.
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:20 pm


I just made a new thread in the main forum. Go tell everyone what villagers you're hoping to get in new leaf.

[Kegan]

Nimble Cultist


Xilo The Odd

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 1:36 pm


i kinda hope for an AC title to hit Wiiu as well. based on all it can do it'd be a really neat way to make an AC game.

you know what it'd be neat for armored core too.
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 2:47 pm


Newsflash: Biology AND experience factor in to pretty much every facet of your life, except maybe the colors of certain body parts. Arguing the ratios at which it happens is ultimately pointless, and is going to vary between people as well.

Another newsflash: This is just semantics, but everything about your life can be seen as a choice, even if it's stemming from something else. You make a choice (or decision, if you will) to identify as whatever sexuality. That choice is because of and stemming from your preferences, which are shaped by factors mentioned in the first newsflash, but it's a choice regardless. I don't force myself to eat green peppers. I don't like the taste. I make the choice to not eat them! You can't convince or persuade me to like them, either. Maybe I could have a really good experience with peppers and decide that I do like them, but it has to be on my own terms; it can't be forced. I don't want anyone to confuse me saying sexuality can, by definition of the word, be a choice with saying that you can change their sexuality.And don't be like, "Sexuality's not the same as food." I can circumvent the metaphor, get very vulgar, and the argument would stand just as well.

Third newsflash: None of that matters! Why does it matter if someone can "help it" if they're a certain way? We should be teaching acceptance, not arguing whether a person can be changed. I don't judge people for liking green peppers, and I sure don't care about why they like green peppers. I'm still their friend!

Don't agree? That's okay! I'm still your friend! I'm not the always-right king of sexuality issues, either (though keep in mind, neither are you). I'm not going to argue further than this, though. If I'm going to waste my time on the Internet, it'll be with something I enjoy doing.

Waynebrizzle


old jazzy

Amorous Fatcat

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 3:26 pm


OMG I'M SORRY FOR HAVING FUN THINKING OUT LOUD ABOUT THINGS I DIDN'T KNOW IT WOULD ENRAGE PEOPLE
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 3:42 pm


I'm chill now. I got it out of my system.

Waynebrizzle


old jazzy

Amorous Fatcat

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:04 pm


Newsflash 1: Agree but it can be interesting to think about things sometimes instead of just accepting them for what they are. After all, a lot of the truths people accept may not be what what they seem upon further inspection.

but after awhile your brain starts to hurt if someone keeps arguing with you and you can't come to any definite conclusion crying

Newflash 2: It is your choice what you identify as or label yourself as. I personally choose not to label myself, I just like who I like. But I don't always choose who I like... I can try, but sometimes you just can't force yourself to like or not like something. Whether it stems from biology or experience or both, you can't force yourself when it comes to some things. Period.

Newflash 3: If it didn't matter to people, it wouldn't be such a widely debated issue. If you want, you can say that everything that happens on Earth does not matter, because one day we'll all be dead. Whether or not something matters is entirely subjective. Also, no one said they wanted to change anyone else.
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:44 pm


Hey, I can absolutely understand curiosity of the subject, so I won't put a hamper on debate anymore. I just don't personally think it's possible to have straight answers for something so complex.

Waynebrizzle


old jazzy

Amorous Fatcat

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:44 pm


Speaking of gayness, have I mentioned how great P3P is for having a bit of girl+girl and not having it be ridiculed and a joke?

Even though the girl is robot >> And they changed her dialogue so she doesn't say "I love you" but she clearly was in love

People complain that women are not represented in video games. How often do you see people who are not straight? Like, never. And if they aren't, then they're a joke, or a bad guy, or both. If you don't agree please give example. I am interest.
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:58 pm


Fairy-type Pokemon? :/

old jazzy

Amorous Fatcat

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