Eambar: Off-Topic Thread

[Falathrim]

When you kill a Maia, you are actually only killing it's earthly raiment. Over time, they can usually rebuild their bodies. However, some Maiar become so pervaded in evil that they lose the ability to rebuild their bodies to their liking. Sauron, who could once change shape as he pleases, takes more than 2000 years to rebuild his body following the War of the Last Alliance. Eventually, it got to the point where he just couldn't do it anymore, and he was no longer a threat. To this day, he remains in Middle-earth, but he is such a pitiful thing that he has no influence on any affair.

Saruman is an interesting case, because although he was a Maia, he was also put into the body of a mortal Man. When he died, his spirit attempted to return to Valinor, but Manwe rejected this, and summoned up a wind that pushed him away to the East. He was left to linger in Middle-earth, unable to do anything, really, and he remaines here to this day.  

[SYFFER]

But don't you thnik it's fair to allow him to plead for pardon? I mean the Valar let Melkor do it and he was the Dark Lord himself! Saruman started out as a good spirit sent to guide the peoples of Middle Earth but he got tricked and tempted by Sauron. In history, many of those that did this were pardoned by the Valar. I don't see why Saruman is any difference.  

[Falathrim]

AINUR PARDNONED BY THE VALAR:
- Melkor

Ummm. One is most certainly not many. And that one time they did it? Yeah, the end result was untold death and sorrow.  

[SYFFER]

Falathrim

AINUR PARDNONED BY THE VALAR:
- Melkor

Ummm. One is most certainly not many. And that one time they did it? Yeah, the end result was untold death and sorrow.

I didn't mean many Ainur, I meant many of different species like the Noldor and some Men. It's true that they threw him back into the void but the point is, they pardoned him in the first place.  

[Falathrim]

What Man ever recieved any sort of pardon from the Valar? I can think of none, and in fact, when Amandil sued for pardon, his fate was death rather than grace.

The Noldor recieved a sort of pardon, yes. They were strongly encouraged to return to Aman. But... not Aman proper. The Exiles were all shoved onto Tol Eressea. Hardly a full pardon.  

[SYFFER]

Falathrim

What Man ever recieved any sort of pardon from the Valar? I can think of none, and in fact, when Amandil sued for pardon, his fate was death rather than grace.

The Noldor recieved a sort of pardon, yes. They were strongly encouraged to return to Aman. But... not Aman proper. The Exiles were all shoved onto Tol Eressea. Hardly a full pardon.

That's true but they were allowed to return. And what about Earendil? He sued for pardon and got the Valar to take down Morgoth. Then the Valar rewarded and thus pardoned Men by creating Numenore. So if Maiar can rebuild their bodily forms, then Sauron, Saruman, and even Durin's Bane would eventually return to Middle Earth in physical form right?  

[Falathrim]

SYFFER

That's true but they were allowed to return. And what about Earendil? He sued for pardon and got the Valar to take down Morgoth. Then the Valar rewarded and thus pardoned Men by creating Numenore.

How is Earnedil getting the Valar to perform their duty by bribing them a pardon? What had the Edain done that made it so they needed to be pardoned in the first place?

SYFFER

So if Maiar can rebuild their bodily forms, then Sauron, Saruman, and even Durin's Bane would eventually return to Middle Earth in physical form right?

. . .  

[SYFFER]

This is pointless sweatdrop Any other interesting subjects you can think of to stop us from getting bored?  

[Falathrim]

...pointless for what reason?  

[Khorkalba]

SYFFER

This is pointless sweatdrop Any other interesting subjects you can think of to stop us from getting bored?

Why on earth is there a Tolkien discussion going on in the off-topic thread anyway? xd Doesn't that defeat the purpose of it?

...New subject. Hmm. Politics? Weather? Rare events?  

[SYFFER]

Longbow UK

SYFFER

This is pointless sweatdrop Any other interesting subjects you can think of to stop us from getting bored?

Why on earth is there a Tolkien discussion going on in the off-topic thread anyway? xd Doesn't that defeat the purpose of it?

...New subject. Hmm. Politics? Weather? Rare events?

My sentiments exactly 3nodding How about current events?  

[Falathrim]

Tolkien discussion occurred here because that's just the way the conversation flowed. Now, if I were to want to spontaneously start a new discussion, I'd make a thead for it, of course, but that's simply not how this happened.

You still haven't answered my question.  

[Menegil]

Ok, let us talk about rare events!

I got three Pink boxes in a row, yesterday. About 10 minutes I got the first one, I got another one, and after 20, I had another one again. heart heart heart

*prays to Gil-estel, so that Falathrim has an anger attack*  

[Falathrim]

Menegil

Ok, let us talk about rare events!

I got three Pink boxes in a row, yesterday. About 10 minutes I got the first one, I got another one, and after 20, I had another one again. heart heart heart

*prays to Gil-estel, so that Falathrim has an anger attack*

stare

I wonder... does it violate my own teachings to burn my own supporters?  

[SYFFER]

Falathrim

...pointless for what reason?

It's pointless to list previous events to justify why Saruman should or should not be pardoned. I just thought that since he was not originally evil, he deserved a chance to justify his actions and return to the grace of the Valar.
Here's another issue: Why didn't the Valar interfere in the third age when Sauron emerged and later returned? I know that they did interefere by sending the Istari but why didn't they attack Sauron the same way they attacked Morgoth in the War of Wrath? Was Sauron too insignificant to deserve the attention of the Valar, or did they forsee his defeat and were confident of the ability of Men and Elves to defeat him?