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 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:05 am
chichisco I beleive in God and I beleive that he is real and I believe that there is something like the third heaven where God lives and there is something like hell where everyone that does not accept God as there personal savoiur is going to go. And I know that he created the world and without him we wouldn't be alive. And for the netural disasters thing it wasn't his fault that people are dumb enough to cause natural disasters like tsunamis for example did you know that the tsunami that happened in indonesia was a cuase of poeple piling dirty on the place where water is soo that they would have more land to there own use. So I don't think that it would ve fair to blame god for those kind of stuff. And if the world has no flaws then what is the point of living. And as most of us know one of the joys of life is the fact that we make mistakes and we learn from it. So i don't think you can blame god for those stuff. If you disagree pls email me.
NATURAL disasters are distasters that aren't caused by humans. Earthquakes are natural disasters. Tornado's are natural disasters. Volcanic eruptions are natural disasters. Nobody blames God for those anymore, anyways. We know what causes them, and it isn't God.
The point of living? We're instilled with a sense of self preservation. If you're attacked, you either fight back or run. Fight or flight. The point of living, I believe, is soley to continue life. Further the species. That's it.
And I must be one of the people that don't know, because when I make a mistake, I find NO joy in it. Only embarrassment and shame.
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:32 am
How exactly would we stop a world disaster... I don't believe in any religion, but if there was a god that one day decided to have an earthquake that would devistate a country, I'm sure there'd be some logic. Besides the fact that natural disasters are caused by the Earth's movements and chemical reactions, they teach us to deal with loss. If we never lost anything or anyone, we would take everything we have for granted. War is a human condition. And someday I'll die, I'll either stop existing, or I'll be put in front of a God, and in the event that I see a God, I'll piss myself and drop my jaw and maybe say "Oh wow, you're real..."
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:27 am
Jason Da Psycho Ok,i don't beleive in God but i respect peoples beliefs,i have reasons for not beleiving in him aswell: I don't beleive theres a whole paridise up in the clouds or some where where people go when they die. If he was real why hadn't we stopped world disesters(sp?) i think its ridiculus that people say that he made the earth and the first people on it i do beleive their was people like jesus and muhammad etc who spread these "Religions"but i don't beleive that there is a person they got revelations from. What do you think? and remember this is a civilised debate with no calling people heretics and no major cursing please the reason why he/she doesnt stop disasters is because of evolution
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:47 am
Chemical PaNcAkE Jason Da Psycho Ok,i don't beleive in God but i respect peoples beliefs,i have reasons for not beleiving in him aswell: I don't beleive theres a whole paridise up in the clouds or some where where people go when they die. If he was real why hadn't we stopped world disesters(sp?) i think its ridiculus that people say that he made the earth and the first people on it i do beleive their was people like jesus and muhammad etc who spread these "Religions"but i don't beleive that there is a person they got revelations from. What do you think? and remember this is a civilised debate with no calling people heretics and no major cursing please the reason why he/she doesnt stop disasters is because of evolution
What??? neutral
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:59 pm
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:46 pm
you cat prove or disprove the existance god , thats is the main purpose of of to see who the beliver are
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:15 am
amigo bear you cat prove or disprove the existance god , thats is the main purpose of of to see who the beliver are
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:56 pm
AmErIcAnSyKo leahbeah1234 I dont know how to debate about this topic. But, I know that I believe in God. He is real. For he has made the earth, the stars, the people. I know that some people don't believe in the Lord. But Jesus DIED for your sins. For us to live if we ask for forgiveness from Him. I know that I am okay with people that don't believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. & That is okay. But then, again. It is not. We will be punished when we die. We will either go to heaven or hell. God makes the decision. I know that I am going to heaven though, for sure. Its not how I live my life, nor is it how if I do good works. But I know the Jesus loves me, and he took is life. For me to live forever, in heaven. The place he provides for those who believe. If you don't believe, read the Bible. Every word is true there. (: If you do want to become a Christian, and don't know how. Just start reading the Bible! Start in John, which is in the new testament, or even in Genesis. (= Reading the bible wont get you to heaven. But it will help you understand. Pray to the lord above. Ask him for forgiveness today. He would love for you to be a part of his family! Don't claim that God is real. You have no proof, and it's a mockery to those who don't believe.
Don't claim that the Bible's words are true. There is no proof that every line in the bible is verified by fact.
Hell, there's not even proof that Jesus was the messiah. Or that he "died for out sins". Christians believe he was, but do the Jew's? No. Why? Because there's no proof. "He rose on the third day.." Really? If some guy came back from the dead, that would be undeniable proof that he was devine, right? Right.
So then why don't the Jew's believe Jesus was the messiah? Uhhhhh, maybe because he never rose from the dead????
haha you think your so smart the bible says that the jews will NOT! believe in him if you read it you'll learn alot and plus its the most proven book in the WORLD! even athiest use the bible to find places in the bible like jericho! so really you have NO! proof that its wrong and thousands of years of its use are against you!,
so if you really want to debate you have to read it! cause if you don't you have no! right to be debating it!
So for now, stick with "I believe in God, and Jesus, and the bible", rather then "they're real and true" because it's obvious I have more then half a mind to challenge your claims.
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:02 pm
narxfang AmErIcAnSyKo leahbeah1234 I dont know how to debate about this topic. But, I know that I believe in God. He is real. For he has made the earth, the stars, the people. I know that some people don't believe in the Lord. But Jesus DIED for your sins. For us to live if we ask for forgiveness from Him. I know that I am okay with people that don't believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. & That is okay. But then, again. It is not. We will be punished when we die. We will either go to heaven or hell. God makes the decision. I know that I am going to heaven though, for sure. Its not how I live my life, nor is it how if I do good works. But I know the Jesus loves me, and he took is life. For me to live forever, in heaven. The place he provides for those who believe. If you don't believe, read the Bible. Every word is true there. (: If you do want to become a Christian, and don't know how. Just start reading the Bible! Start in John, which is in the new testament, or even in Genesis. (= Reading the bible wont get you to heaven. But it will help you understand. Pray to the lord above. Ask him for forgiveness today. He would love for you to be a part of his family! Don't claim that God is real. You have no proof, and it's a mockery to those who don't believe.
Don't claim that the Bible's words are true. There is no proof that every line in the bible is verified by fact.
Hell, there's not even proof that Jesus was the messiah. Or that he "died for out sins". Christians believe he was, but do the Jew's? No. Why? Because there's no proof. "He rose on the third day.." Really? If some guy came back from the dead, that would be undeniable proof that he was devine, right? Right.
So then why don't the Jew's believe Jesus was the messiah? Uhhhhh, maybe because he never rose from the dead????
haha you think your so smart the bible says that the jews will NOT! believe in him if you read it you'll learn alot and plus its the most proven book in the WORLD! even athiest use the bible to find places in the bible like jericho! so really you have NO! proof that its wrong and thousands of years of its use are against you!,
so if you really want to debate you have to read it! cause if you don't you have no! right to be debating it!
So for now, stick with "I believe in God, and Jesus, and the bible", rather then "they're real and true" because it's obvious I have more then half a mind to challenge your claims.
Second; The Bible says that Jews wont believe Jesus is the messiah???? Oh really??? Why would they think that???? Oh, maybe that's because the Jews were more or less responsible for his crusifixion!! THANK YOU, CAPTAIN OBVIOUS FOR WRITING THAT IN THE BIBLE, WE'RE SO GREATFUL!!
Third; What proof does the Bible have BESIDES certain locations in the time the pages were written?? What proof is there of claims such as Moses parting the red sea, or Jesus turning water into wine??? Where is this "proof" you speak of, hmm???
Oh, wait, there is none! rolleyes
And finally, I do think I'm so smart. At least, smart enough to quote someones post correctly, unlike yourself. rolleyes rofl
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:13 am
AmErIcAnSyKo Like I explained earlier, I take debating very seriously, and I wont deny that I get a bit riled up at times, but I do accept people having their own beliefs and I don't hold it against them. I was a believer myself for 15 years of my life, I know what's going through their head.
But I was a little more bold then most people, and broke away from my traditionally christian family. They call me narrow-minded for believing in science and using science and logic to explain/disprove things.. Yet they don't take it into account that I am the one who decided to break away from the norm. I was the one thinking outside of the box. They are the ones who are narrowmindedly following what the rest of the family thinks, while I listened to my inner cries, hungry for truth.
I don't believe in a higher power because of the substantial lack of evidence to even prove that a higher power had a hand in ANYTHING on this earth, and also beyond. Nothing anyone has ever found, could be proven to be made or caused by a "higher power" or a "god". I don't buy into the whole "science is the answer to 'how' not 'why'".. Lack of proof, drove me to believe it wasn't true. So I set out to try and find the truth.
I looked away from the bible, and opened up a science book for once.
I would, however, like to ask WHY you believe in a higher power. I don't really have that great of a memory, so if you told me why in the post with Cornetto, then I appologize..
sweatdrop
Why I believe in a higher power? Well that's actually a more personal question to be honest, not something I really talk much about but I will say as a self proclaimed gambler I should have run out of luck by now and only God could have kept me going this far against the odds, I don't care what coincidences you say can happen the probabilities and science of the odds say that I should have been looong gone years ago. Unless of course I'm the living Cinderella story haha. Its also between that and whenever I've asked for anything I have somehow received even if it takes awhile.
People could connect that to the subconcious mind and stuff like that but I don't think so, call it my hopeless romanticism or some sick twisted philosophy that has been purpotrated by some great big control government (to which I reply to those atheists that "their beliefs come from a growing norm and culture promoted by the media", that really gets them mad lol) but I always like to entertain the idea that the powerful of today are suffering an eternity tomorrow and that one day we will rise up and reclaim this world for the meek and deserving of this world.
But I'm dancing around the question you asked and you would probably say so. Simply this, I have no logical answer and I am proud to say it. Logic never was my thing lol, and apparently these insane Christians obviously think they can battle logic with illogical banter, I'm not like that I'll say straight out when I have no answer to something. I find it helps me to study harder to provide an answer later on.
But like I said I would never ever use the Bible as a defense of the Lord. Its just too tainted by human hands, much less than the Torah or the Quran thats for sure. But I can still spar with a Christian head to head with their own book and use it to destroy their own beliefs (which is oddly satisfying when I see their faces). I especially love it on the week of Lent, the Easter Holiday, Palm Sunday, and Christmas because thats when I face off against a literal army trying to "help" me rediscover Christ again. To which I pull out my two Bibles (King James and New International) and begin an epic battle similar to the final scene in Scarface where Tony faces off against and army. Usually I send them packing just with the Book of Matthew and Revelation alone and they go back to their Churches and plan their next attack. Or comparing them to the Hindu caste system which gets an excellent responses (I'm gonna kill your ******** heathen a**!!).
But you know, the same can be said of atheists. They always say that my "intelligent" mind (I wonder at times about the intelligent part) shouldn't be held back by the concept of God and that one day they will make me see the light to which I always reply to the closer friends my life in New York, which always leads to a big silence and a satisfied grin on my face that I got their little pompous science loving mouths to shut up (can you sense a disdain of science from me? I'm terrible at it lol lucky I have such great science loving friends). Its shocking how similar the two are, atheism and Christianity, in terms of trying to get people to see truth...not much difference actually.
There I go again rabbling, I'm sorry I just love to talk about random things about religion and I understand that you are a passionate debator, I still remember the wounds you inflicted back their in the debate which oddly enough both you and Cornetto1 abandoned right in the thick of it all, but then again how are three people that don't believe in Christianity really supposed to disagree on the holy book itself? The only difference I really see between us in terms of ideology is the fact that you believe that there is no higher being and I do. And not all of us believers are all just stuck in the ancient times, some of us do try to research science also even though I hate it, like I just flat out say no when a Christian tells me that the world is like 10,000 years old or something. Some of us here try to search for the answers from all venues and still maintain our belief dude, don't try to lump those few of us in with those illiterate fools who are crazy over their Bible which they have never really read.
So to sum up my rants...Monkey. Plain and simple, monkey. Where I go with this? I don't know, as I believe in God I have no logic apparently rofl . Seriously though, try to calm out a bit, approach it more diplomatically when talking about religion instead of outright saying that they are fools or something that sounds a little more eloquent but the same in context. But if they cast the first stone then you fight right back, not only is it logical but religiously tolerated as well lol .
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:56 am
Okay I believe in God because I went to a Christan youth camp a few times and it changed my life. People have the right to believe anything they want. But as for me I believe in God because Ive experienced Him. Dont tell people what they think it stupid because we are ALL created equally and I dont care what you say. I KNOW thats true.
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:31 am
x0x Fallen Star x0x
Okay I believe in God because I went to a Christan youth camp a few times and it changed my life. People have the right to believe anything they want. But as for me I believe in God because Ive experienced Him. Dont tell people what they think it stupid because we are ALL created equally and I dont care what you say. I KNOW thats true.
And unfortunately, that right that you have just stated, gives me the right to say I think you're stupid for believing.
3nodding
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:52 am
yokomotoz AmErIcAnSyKo Like I explained earlier, I take debating very seriously, and I wont deny that I get a bit riled up at times, but I do accept people having their own beliefs and I don't hold it against them. I was a believer myself for 15 years of my life, I know what's going through their head.
But I was a little more bold then most people, and broke away from my traditionally christian family. They call me narrow-minded for believing in science and using science and logic to explain/disprove things.. Yet they don't take it into account that I am the one who decided to break away from the norm. I was the one thinking outside of the box. They are the ones who are narrowmindedly following what the rest of the family thinks, while I listened to my inner cries, hungry for truth.
I don't believe in a higher power because of the substantial lack of evidence to even prove that a higher power had a hand in ANYTHING on this earth, and also beyond. Nothing anyone has ever found, could be proven to be made or caused by a "higher power" or a "god". I don't buy into the whole "science is the answer to 'how' not 'why'".. Lack of proof, drove me to believe it wasn't true. So I set out to try and find the truth.
I looked away from the bible, and opened up a science book for once.
I would, however, like to ask WHY you believe in a higher power. I don't really have that great of a memory, so if you told me why in the post with Cornetto, then I appologize..
sweatdrop
Why I believe in a higher power? Well that's actually a more personal question to be honest, not something I really talk much about but I will say as a self proclaimed gambler I should have run out of luck by now and only God could have kept me going this far against the odds, I don't care what coincidences you say can happen the probabilities and science of the odds say that I should have been looong gone years ago. Unless of course I'm the living Cinderella story haha. Its also between that and whenever I've asked for anything I have somehow received even if it takes awhile.
People could connect that to the subconcious mind and stuff like that but I don't think so, call it my hopeless romanticism or some sick twisted philosophy that has been purpotrated by some great big control government (to which I reply to those atheists that "their beliefs come from a growing norm and culture promoted by the media", that really gets them mad lol) but I always like to entertain the idea that the powerful of today are suffering an eternity tomorrow and that one day we will rise up and reclaim this world for the meek and deserving of this world.
But I'm dancing around the question you asked and you would probably say so. Simply this, I have no logical answer and I am proud to say it. Logic never was my thing lol, and apparently these insane Christians obviously think they can battle logic with illogical banter, I'm not like that I'll say straight out when I have no answer to something. I find it helps me to study harder to provide an answer later on.
But like I said I would never ever use the Bible as a defense of the Lord. Its just too tainted by human hands, much less than the Torah or the Quran thats for sure. But I can still spar with a Christian head to head with their own book and use it to destroy their own beliefs (which is oddly satisfying when I see their faces). I especially love it on the week of Lent, the Easter Holiday, Palm Sunday, and Christmas because thats when I face off against a literal army trying to "help" me rediscover Christ again. To which I pull out my two Bibles (King James and New International) and begin an epic battle similar to the final scene in Scarface where Tony faces off against and army. Usually I send them packing just with the Book of Matthew and Revelation alone and they go back to their Churches and plan their next attack. Or comparing them to the Hindu caste system which gets an excellent responses (I'm gonna kill your ******** heathen a**!!).
But you know, the same can be said of atheists. They always say that my "intelligent" mind (I wonder at times about the intelligent part) shouldn't be held back by the concept of God and that one day they will make me see the light to which I always reply to the closer friends my life in New York, which always leads to a big silence and a satisfied grin on my face that I got their little pompous science loving mouths to shut up (can you sense a disdain of science from me? I'm terrible at it lol lucky I have such great science loving friends). Its shocking how similar the two are, atheism and Christianity, in terms of trying to get people to see truth...not much difference actually.
There I go again rabbling, I'm sorry I just love to talk about random things about religion and I understand that you are a passionate debator, I still remember the wounds you inflicted back their in the debate which oddly enough both you and Cornetto1 abandoned right in the thick of it all, but then again how are three people that don't believe in Christianity really supposed to disagree on the holy book itself? The only difference I really see between us in terms of ideology is the fact that you believe that there is no higher being and I do. And not all of us believers are all just stuck in the ancient times, some of us do try to research science also even though I hate it, like I just flat out say no when a Christian tells me that the world is like 10,000 years old or something. Some of us here try to search for the answers from all venues and still maintain our belief dude, don't try to lump those few of us in with those illiterate fools who are crazy over their Bible which they have never really read.
So to sum up my rants...Monkey. Plain and simple, monkey. Where I go with this? I don't know, as I believe in God I have no logic apparently rofl . Seriously though, try to calm out a bit, approach it more diplomatically when talking about religion instead of outright saying that they are fools or something that sounds a little more eloquent but the same in context. But if they cast the first stone then you fight right back, not only is it logical but religiously tolerated as well lol .
Haha.. Kidding.. But seriously, like you said, our only difference is our end thought. In the end, I believe there is no "God", and you do. Everything else, I can say we're basically the exact same. I have people trying to convert me left and right, mostly Christians simply because my entire family is Christian..
I'm much more science-oriented in my search for answers, though. I will use science and logical thinking in my quest, simply because God defies science and logic. My quest isn't to prove that He isn't real, but to prove that He IS real, in a way that I can believe it.
Confusing? Let me break it down for you.. And you'll be the first person I've told about this...
I don't believe in God, simply because, like I said, He defies science and logic as far as we know it. So even if I WANTED to believe, I can't, because my mind is so stone set on fact and stone truth. I have no reason to try and disprove him because 1) If He really ISN'T there, there is no evidence to disprove him.. And 2) I already don't believe He exists, so why would I waste my time trying to further solidify that belief, when it's already so completely unshakable?
I want to PROVE the existance of God with Science, so that I will have ACTUAL proof to go on.. Not, like you said, some tainted book, or raving preachers.. I want science to come through and prove the existance of God, to settle things once and for all.
But so far, science is proving more against, then for. So answers may never be found, which sucks because then that means there will always be these fantics running around, prosecuting out of their mouths and preaching out of their asses.
neutral
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:22 pm
x0x Fallen Star x0x
Okay I believe in God because I went to a Christan youth camp a few times and it changed my life. People have the right to believe anything they want. But as for me I believe in God because Ive experienced Him. Dont tell people what they think it stupid because we are ALL created equally and I dont care what you say. I KNOW thats true.
do you understand the irony of the statement that everyone was created equal, it was said by americans who had slaves, and yet "all men were created equal"
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:05 am
V379 x0x Fallen Star x0x
Okay I believe in God because I went to a Christan youth camp a few times and it changed my life. People have the right to believe anything they want. But as for me I believe in God because Ive experienced Him. Dont tell people what they think it stupid because we are ALL created equally and I dont care what you say. I KNOW thats true.
do you understand the irony of the statement that everyone was created equal, it was said by americans who had slaves, and yet "all men were created equal"
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