Do You Think That Obama is Legally President?

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

Latopazora

Ok, so I was mistaken on the constitution, Mouse.

You can't really be mistaken on the constitution, it's yours to defend, and change.  

[Toolee]

I'm not sure I care where he was born, although his entire history is pretty fishy to me, including his past associations with communists and domestic terrorists.

What I do care about is the way he's dragging this country down with his extreme liberalism, throwing money around like there's no tomorrow, redistribution of wealth, socialism, government-run health care, etc.

This is my first post in this guild. Hope I don't offend anyone. I can't stand Obama and wish there was a way to remove him from office without having to wait three years for some possible relief.  

[DanskiWolf]

Quote:

throwing money around like there's no tomorrow,

Government stimulus helped Australia stay out of a recession. Nothing wrong with a bit of Keynesianism if the situation calls for it.

And anyway, do the Reagan and Bush Jr. spending sprees bother you just as much? Are you consistently a fiscal conservative or only selectively?

Quote:

redistribution of wealth

What, like taxes and welfare? Yeah, I'm pretty sure every president, Republican or Democrat, does this. It's only Obama that seems to be called a "communist" for doing so.

Quote:

socialism

Means of production are entirely naitonalised now?

Quote:

government-run health care

Every wealthy capitalist nation, except the US, has this.

Anyway, welcome to the guild.
smile  

[Pumona]

DanskiWolf

Quote:

throwing money around like there's no tomorrow,

Government stimulus helped Australia stay out of a recession. Nothing wrong with a bit of Keynesianism if the situation calls for it.

And anyway, do the Reagan and Bush Jr. spending sprees bother you just as much? Are you consistently a fiscal conservative or only selectively?

Quote:

redistribution of wealth

What, like taxes and welfare? Yeah, I'm pretty sure every president, Republican or Democrat, does this. It's only Obama that seems to be called a "communist" for doing so.

Quote:

socialism

Means of production are entirely naitonalised now?

Quote:

government-run health care

Every wealthy capitalist nation, except the US, has this.

Anyway, welcome to the guild.
smile

DanskiWolf
Like we have mentioned before Obama has spent more money than all previous presidents. Deny it if you want it is yor opinion. and one more thing you claim that "Every wealthy capitailist nation, except the US, has government-run health care. Well I think you better check into your facts since the other country's that have it have also explained that it does not work.





Rainbowfied Mouse

Online Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:38 pm
Latopazora Wrote:
Ok, so I was mistaken on the constitution, Mouse.



You can't really be mistaken on the constitution, it's yours to defend, and change.







Help Mouse Stop Heart Disease







Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:09 am
I'm not sure I care where he was born, although his entire history is pretty fishy to me, including his past associations with communists and domestic terrorists.

What I do care about is the way he's dragging this country down with his extreme liberalism, throwing money around like there's no tomorrow, redistribution of wealth, socialism, government-run health care, etc.

This is my first post in this guild. Hope I don't offend anyone. I can't stand Obama and wish there was a way to remove him from office without having to wait three years for some possible relief.








Toolee

Offline








DanskiWolf  

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

Quote:

Well I think you better check into your facts since the other country's that have it have also explained that it does not work.

Tell that to France, England, and Sweden... I'm sure they'll tell you differently

Quote:

Quote:

Ok, so I was mistaken on the constitution, Mouse.

You can't really be mistaken on the constitution, it's yours to defend, and change.

The whole point of the topic was that you can change it...  

[Pumona]

Rainbowfied Mouse

Quote:

Well I think you better check into your facts since the other country's that have it have also explained that it does not work.

Tell that to France, England, and Sweden... I'm sure they'll tell you differently


Actually if you were to ask the average person there it does not work. They have had people from these other countries on Fox and that said it does not work. People are dying or really sick and can not get help because they have waits up to a year.

 

[Pumona]

Welcome to our wonderful home, Toolee  

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

Pumona

Rainbowfied Mouse

Quote:

Well I think you better check into your facts since the other country's that have it have also explained that it does not work.

Tell that to France, England, and Sweden... I'm sure they'll tell you differently

Actually if you were to ask the average person there it does not work. They have had people from these other countries on Fox and that said it does not work. People are dying or really sick and can not get help because they have waits up to a year.

You ask the average person here... they'll tell you the same thing.  

[Pumona]

Rainbowfied Mouse

Pumona

Rainbowfied Mouse

Quote:

Well I think you better check into your facts since the other country's that have it have also explained that it does not work.

Tell that to France, England, and Sweden... I'm sure they'll tell you differently

Actually if you were to ask the average person there it does not work. They have had people from these other countries on Fox and that said it does not work. People are dying or really sick and can not get help because they have waits up to a year.

You ask the average person here... they'll tell you the same thing.

I totally disagree, we do not have waiting lists for people that are dying or sick. I have had medical insurance for over 20 years now (longer than you have been around) and never had an issue with it. Health insurance in America is the best around. In your opionion tell me what you believe is bad about our healthcare.  

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

That's great, I'm happy for you and 82% of America, even though I'm sure even some of the ones with insurance have bad insurance, and/or dislike their insurance and our system.

Quote:

U.S. Census Bureau
-nearly 46 million Americans, or 18 percent of the population under the age of 65, were without health insurance in 2007

-it is projected that nearly 7million Americans will lose their health insurance coverage between 2008 and 2010. 3 Urban Institute researchers estimate that if unemployment reaches 10 percent, another 6million Americans will lose their health insurance coverage.

I live in West Michigan, we don't even have the worse end of the stick. My aunt has 3dependents, she's working as a telemarketer, she has no insurance. My grandma who was 50 and employed- no insurance. The first 8years of my life- no insurance, and I also developed Asthma which drove our family into debt which we haven't recovered from until recently. My friend Gayle that worked for a nonprofit organization- no insurance.

Quote:

We don't have waiting lines...

Really, I have an Aunt and Uncle who live in the UK and have three children, they don't have waiting lines there either. They can get right in. If the UK and France can work out a system, I'm sure we can manage to make something better.

s**t happens to people, why let unemployment affect their health? Why let children who need medication to fix problems like asthma drive their family into debt from numerous hospital visits each month from attacks? How much trust do you put in our low-standard welfare system to save families that barely make ends meat to cover them in the hospital?

((and if you think I'm just biasing my opinion based on my childhood, my mom currently works for the hospital, and my stepdad is an insurance salesmen (for health insurance)...))  

[DanskiWolf]

As an "average" Australian, let me tell you universal healthcare does work and its far better than the present US system. Most Australians agree, which is why not even the conservatives will touch the system. Same goes for Britain and Europe. The British Conservative leader, David Cameron, has labeled is party "the party of NHS" (i.e. National Health Service). So there is a broad consensus amongst wealthy first world nations, from both politicians and the people, that universal healthcare does work.  

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

DanskiWolf

As an "average" Australian, let me tell you universal healthcare does work and its far better than the present US system. Most Australians agree, which is why not even the conservatives will touch the system. Same goes for Britain and Europe. The British Conservative leader, David Cameron, has labeled is party "the party of NHS" (i.e. National Health Service). So there is a broad consensus amongst wealthy first world nations, from both politicians and the people, that universal healthcare does work.

I think the fear among americans runs more towards fear of more bad "socialism" attempts [eg. social security] as well as the word socialism being a coined negative term. I also believe that the fear is in the pharmaceutical area... the belief that only "capitalist" healthcare can result in cures, and medicinal finds.  

[Lord Bitememan]

It is important to differentiate between universal health care under a single payer system and the current proposals being discussed in Washington. Under the Canadian single payer system, the population is taxed progressively, and health care is provided as a government service. There are no private insurers involved, nobody is denied coverage, and everybody gets access to the system. That's not what they're proposing in Washington currently. What's being proposed in Washington is a mix of regulatory restrictions on private insurers, and scads of individual mandates that force individuals to purchase private insurance. Many of the particulars are still in debate, but here are some bottom lines:

1. The Senate finance committee recently voted to scrap an optional government insurance program that was to compete with private insurers. This would have helped provide some balance against the artificial market forces they are now creating. As it stands there is now no reason for insurers to reduce prices on insurance since legally everyone will have to buy their product.

2. The proposals to reimburse lower and middle income Americans for purchasing insurance under the new mandate were initially set at household incomes of around $80,000. They have been greatly curtailed by finance committee chairman Max Baucus, who has reduced them to around $40,000. The problem is these figures are flat rate figures based of the US poverty level and don't take into account high premium insurance markets. In short, $40,000 is nothing if you live in New York or Boston. You could barely get a roach motel and eat ramen for that kind of money in those areas, let alone afford insurance. If you live in Mississippi, on the other hand, $40,000 goes a very long way.

3. What's being proposed isn't universal health care. The CBO has even said so. By CBO estimates several million will still be uninsured and will instead wind up paying a penalty to the government for failure to carry insurance. Oregon Senator Ron Wyden has openly called for the penalty mechanisms to be removed from the bill, citing (quite correctly) that these penalties won't help insure a single person. So far Wyden's move has gone nowhere.

So, if we want to discuss universal health care the first matter we all have to come to agreement on is that we are addressing systems in Canada, Europe, and the rest of the industrialized world; we are not talking about the system being proposed in Congress.  

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

@LB - I thought the argument was healthcare in general, not the proposal in Washington [which I am against]  

[Lord Bitememan]

Quote:

As an "average" Australian, let me tell you universal healthcare does work and its far better than the present US system.

Then perhaps, Mouse, you should have brought this up with Danski first.