I've failed - a coming-out story

[=X-Sparker + AquaKiller=]

You know why they are afraid of letting you talk?
It's because they know you have a legitimate reason
for you belief and once you say it they have no
grounds to be against you, unless they really are
tyrannous like that. They're afraid they'd lose the
argument.

So what you can do, is whenever they interrupt and go on
and on, just respond with, "Yeah, yeah yeah you're ALWAYS
right and I'm ALWAYS wrong! You're PERFECT you know
EVERYTHING you will ALWAYS be correct! Why do you
need god then?" The logic of religion turns inward into
itself. That's why it's a paradox.

 

[[-Erik-]]

You should also tell them that threats don't work when it comes to GENIUNELY converting people.

 

[brainnsoup]

Logic doesn't work in a religious debate.
The only thing that has worked for me in similar situations is the paradox:
God is merciful, right?
Right.
God is forgiving, right?
Right...
So would God send me to hell for eternity whether or not I was a good person because I didn't believe in Him?


Also, I went to public school all through high school.
It's a lot of fun! No God talk allowed unless it's for a philosophical purpose.
Well it's technically not allowed at all but...
And all of my friends who came from catholic middle schools liked public school better.
I understand not wanting to leave your friends.
But you can still stay in contact with them.  

[Eccentric Detective]

Sagara-kun-Blue

Sorry, guys, one meal doesn't constitute starvation. But I agree with the people who suggested you talk to your brother. I'd say don't kick up more dust than you need to. Public school's not bad, especially if you take more academic classes. But if you don't want to leave your friends, which is understandable, just find a way for you and your parents to live civilly with each other. Pretending to pray isn't a crime. It might be a little degrading and stamding up for your self is better, but sometimes, it's best just to bite the bullet to keep the peace. After high school, you can move away to college and do things your own way. Good luck!

Yeah, that's probably all I'm going to do. I might feel a little worse for it, but at least I'll know what I believe, and why.  

[Captain_Shinzo]

Next time they try to stop you, use this line that usually works EVERY time.
" Why stop me? Do I NOT have the freedom to share my ideas but you have the right to FORCE yours? "
It is the ultimate paradox.
and yes, I believe the idea of what someone here was correct.
However, even if you can change around ideas to where you seem like the winner, you can STILL find the flaw. Someone stated that there were multiple arcs and not just Noahs. How could they ALL know how to make such a big boat? Also, it still doesn't explain how that amount of water magical appears and leaves. ( Hrm, Law of Conservation? )

No matter how much Christians try to mold their stories, there is ALWAYS a flaw that can't be fixed without creating another flaw.  

[Eccentric Detective]

Captain_Shinzo

Next time they try to stop you, use this line that usually works EVERY time.
" Why stop me? Do I NOT have the freedom to share my ideas but you have the right to FORCE yours? "
It is the ultimate paradox.
and yes, I believe the idea of what someone here was correct.
However, even if you can change around ideas to where you seem like the winner, you can STILL find the flaw. Someone stated that there were multiple arcs and not just Noahs. How could they ALL know how to make such a big boat? Also, it still doesn't explain how that amount of water magical appears and leaves. ( Hrm, Law of Conservation? )

No matter how much Christians try to mold their stories, there is ALWAYS a flaw that can't be fixed without creating another flaw.

Y'know, it's usually accepted among biblical scholars that the Hebrew Scriptures were not actual descriptions of historical events - instead they were like incredible exaggerations, kind of like tall tales. Such as when Moses crossed the "Red Sea." That's the Reed Sea, folks - a little marshy creek in a different region! (And actually this was taught to me in a religion class at my private school. No lie.)

Though you do get the occasional crazy literalist. If you read the Bible in its entirety, you would get incredibly confused trying to decide which laws you should really follow and which were discounted.

I think the Bible is so vague that one could almost find material in defense of either side of an argument in it. Take the issue on whether rich people will get into heaven. Jesus himself says that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. But then you look at the kings of the Torah. They were supposedly chosen by God, weren't they? So of course they'd get into heaven. But they were also terribly rich, according to the Hebrew accounts.... So, did they, or were the scripture writers liars?

Consider the paradox of an omnipotent God. Can he make something that he himself can't fix? Hmm. Why would he need to send his only Son down to earth and have him killed instead of just snapping his fingers and being done with it? And if he went to all that trouble, why didn't he just have all the Jews miraculously believe in his Word? Why should he let himself be doubted? He wants everyone to go to heaven... but makes it impossible for many people. I fail to see the point of this.

Anyway, I'm getting way off topic. Point is, I'm not ignorant about the Catholic (or Jewish) religion. I was making an informed decision (this goes to my parents, if they should ever read it).  

[Captain_Shinzo]

tearingXheavenXdown

Captain_Shinzo

Next time they try to stop you, use this line that usually works EVERY time.
" Why stop me? Do I NOT have the freedom to share my ideas but you have the right to FORCE yours? "
It is the ultimate paradox.
and yes, I believe the idea of what someone here was correct.
However, even if you can change around ideas to where you seem like the winner, you can STILL find the flaw. Someone stated that there were multiple arcs and not just Noahs. How could they ALL know how to make such a big boat? Also, it still doesn't explain how that amount of water magical appears and leaves. ( Hrm, Law of Conservation? )

No matter how much Christians try to mold their stories, there is ALWAYS a flaw that can't be fixed without creating another flaw.

Y'know, it's usually accepted among biblical scholars that the Hebrew Scriptures were not actual descriptions of historical events - instead they were like incredible exaggerations, kind of like tall tales. Such as when Moses crossed the "Red Sea." That's the Reed Sea, folks - a little marshy creek in a different region! (And actually this was taught to me in a religion class at my private school. No lie.)

Though you do get the occasional crazy literalist. If you read the Bible in its entirety, you would get incredibly confused trying to decide which laws you should really follow and which were discounted.

I think the Bible is so vague that one could almost find material in defense of either side of an argument in it. Take the issue on whether rich people will get into heaven. Jesus himself says that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. But then you look at the kings of the Torah. They were supposedly chosen by God, weren't they? So of course they'd get into heaven. But they were also terribly rich, according to the Hebrew accounts.... So, did they, or were the scripture writers liars?

Consider the paradox of an omnipotent God. Can he make something that he himself can't fix? Hmm. Why would he need to send his only Son down to earth and have him killed instead of just snapping his fingers and being done with it? And if he went to all that trouble, why didn't he just have all the Jews miraculously believe in his Word? Why should he let himself be doubted? He wants everyone to go to heaven... but makes it impossible for many people. I fail to see the point of this.

Anyway, I'm getting way off topic. Point is, I'm not ignorant about the Catholic (or Jewish) religion. I was making an informed decision (this goes to my parents, if they should ever read it).

I was just giving an example, really.
If you want, which usually works, step up.
Parentd get surprisd when their children grow a backbone with spikes growing out.  

[LimeIzMyFaveColor]

brainnsoup

Also, I went to public school all through high school.
It's a lot of fun! No God talk allowed unless it's for a philosophical purpose.
Well it's technically not allowed at all but...
And all of my friends who came from catholic middle schools liked public school better.
I understand not wanting to leave your friends.
But you can still stay in contact with them.

Omg my school is a public one but my school perhaps most of the teachers are religious (Christianity). The school is in the bible belt.
My school has a FCA (Fellowship of Christian Athletes). When I left the parking lot to go to school, I saw a circle of people praying by the pole. (???). I see signs of Christianity all over the school. I mean you can believe what you want but really? is that neccessary?

And to be more On Topic.
I haven't told my parents yet. I think I will before I go to college (which is when I graduate this year!)
Sorry about you though (the Main Poster)  

[brainnsoup]

LimeIzMyFaveColor

brainnsoup

Also, I went to public school all through high school.
It's a lot of fun! No God talk allowed unless it's for a philosophical purpose.
Well it's technically not allowed at all but...
And all of my friends who came from catholic middle schools liked public school better.
I understand not wanting to leave your friends.
But you can still stay in contact with them.

Omg my school is a public one but my school perhaps most of the teachers are religious (Christianity). The school is in the bible belt.
My school has a FCA (Fellowship of Christian Athletes). When I left the parking lot to go to school, I saw a circle of people praying by the pole. (???). I see signs of Christianity all over the school. I mean you can believe what you want but really? is that neccessary?

And to be more On Topic.
I haven't told my parents yet. I think I will before I go to college (which is when I graduate this year!)
Sorry about you though (the Main Poster)

Haha, I went to high school in northern Illinois.
We had a Christian club but it was really really small and when I told most people that it existed they usually replied with a shocked expression and "Is that even allowed?"

@ tearingXheavenXdown: Oooh! You know what you could do if you were feeling really spiteful and wated to get back at your parents for sending you to public school?
Join a Muslim or Hinduism support group. A lot of public schools have different clubs for certain religions as long as they let everyone join and don't discriminate againts people of different faiths.
If not you could start one.
Or join a branch of the Gay-Straight Alliance. Most schools have one.  

[Eccentric Detective]

brainnsoup

Haha, I went to high school in northern Illinois.
We had a Christian club but it was really really small and when I told most people that it existed they usually replied with a shocked expression and "Is that even allowed?"

@ tearingXheavenXdown: Oooh! You know what you could do if you were feeling really spiteful and wated to get back at your parents for sending you to public school?
Join a Muslim or Hinduism support group. A lot of public schools have different clubs for certain religions as long as they let everyone join and don't discriminate againts people of different faiths.
If not you could start one.
Or join a branch of the Gay-Straight Alliance. Most schools have one.

Yeah, I've argued with my dad so many times about gay marriage. He seems to think that if it was possible, everyone would get a license, even people like me and my sister, because genes and related-ness doesn't matter, right?
I can't imagine marrying my sister, though. That would just be too weird.
Heh, right now we can only be in one club at our school and I'm in an anime club. :3 We're watching Death Note next meeting. (Yay!) I might join the DSH group (stands for Discrimination Stops Here, it's our version of a gay/straight alliance). There's not a bad attitude here towards gays, happily enough. I know quite a few and they're very accepted.  

[Moonlight Wolf Pack]

There is nothing that makes it okay for parents to treat their child like that. Do you have a close friend or relative who you can talk to about it? it always feels better to be able to talk to someone who won't judge you.  

[alteregoivy]

I am so sorry to hear you going through this. I really hope you and your family can reconcile one day. I think you will, it will just take time.

I had the opposite problem growing up. I got caught up in the Southern Baptist church/cult, and none of my family were believers. My big brother, especially, would question my faith constantly, asking me those kinds of questions like "Can God make something so heavy He can't lift it?" I actually did have an answer at the time that made sense to me, I just can't remember what it was.

My dad was a little worried about me with the Christians, but he thought that I would see it for the crap it was and move on. Well, he was wrong. He told me later (after I lost my faith) that it seemed to upset me so much that he didn't believe, too, that he almost converted just to make me happy. I love my dad. I'm glad he didn't.

Anyway... My roomie in college was kind of in your position, except she was very good at keeping secrets. She came home to visit once, though, and she had cut her hair short and started wearing a pair of combat boots... And suddenly the topic of how homosexuality was a sin and a shame unto God cam up and awful lot in conversation. rofl She's straight, BTW.  

[RestlessRenegade]

In the interest of practicality, I say that at fifteen, it's important for you to have a good education and a solid place to sleep at night. I mean, I commiserate with your problem, and it totally sucks.

But a lot of people don't like being challenged, and I doubt your parents would respond well to it. I think it's best to take your own advice and simply ride it out--you're only around three years away from college anyway, right?

As for pretending to pray...it totally blows, but it's what's going to keep you from being miserable in public school. (Personally, I went to public school all my life and I've had a good education, but I can see why you'd want to stay with your friends in a place that you already know well.)

I haven't told my family yet, so I still bow my head on the rare occasion that they pray, and I still do what I can to pretend that I believe in god (mostly because I'm close to going to college myself and I don't want to rock the boat in the last quarter) so I know how embarrassing it is. All in all, you've just got to stick it out.  

[Esanx]

I got to go a public school and i enjoy it, but wow, your parents sound harsh, i told them once and they repled with "well, be happy god shows mercy" -.- my dad isn't religious but my mom is...luckily they seem to have forgotten all about it smile just tell them you aren't a little kid anymore and that you have your rights. I would just ignore them or (because they say we have no morals -.-) say "i believe now, LEMME EAT" XD