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 Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:47 am
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:29 am
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Someoneiknow Quote: They don't have Christ, and because they don't have Christ Quote: Even the demons believe in the Christ. Apparent contradiction? If all I have to do is believe in Christ to be saved, but yet even the demons believe in Christ, then how do we differentiate between Christians and non-believers? Perhaps by our "le gaspe!" works or as Paul states, our fruits.
Quote me anywhere from any topic saying that all you have to do is believe. You've also neglected confession, repentance, and baptism. |
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:43 am
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All right.
Here. Scripture.
John 3:16
For God loved the world so much that He gave His one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.
This is one example of where belief in Christ brings eternal life. It doesn't say "faith and works". Just faith.
People may not know, so they can't be held accountable?
Romans 1:18-20
But God shows His anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness. They know the truth about God because He has made it obvious to them. For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see His invisible qualities--His eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.
They have no excuse.
No one can be made right with God through following the Law, through works. It is only your faith.
Romans 3:20
For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.
Romans 3:22
We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.
It doesn't say "our faith in Jesus Christ and through our works".
Yes there is judgment of sin. But if you have Christ you will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
Romans 3:23-25
For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God's glorious standard. Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous.
How?
He did this through Christ Jesus when He freed us from the penalty of our sins. For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin.
Okay. Anything else, my good friend Paul?
People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed His life, shedding His blood.
...Where are the works? They're not there. If you have faith in Jesus Christ and believe He is your savior, that He died for you, then you are saved. And your salvation will be shown through the fruits you bear. If you are not saved, you will not produce good fruit. If you are saved, you will produce good fruit. Works do not save you. You can't get into heaven by being better than somebody else. You can only get into heaven through faith in Jesus Christ.
Please, continue Paul.
Romans 3:27-30
After all, is God the God of the Jews only? Isn't He also the God of the Gentiles? Of course He is. There is only one God, and He makes people right with Himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles.
Thank you, Lord! And thank you, Paul. And look, it seems we are in agreement.
Romans 3:31
Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the Law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the Law.
There you go. If you have true faith, you will be obedient. You will fulfill the Law. But it is only by faith, through faith, that you are saved.
Paul, please talk about Abraham. Everyone loves Abraham.
Romans 4:2-3
If his good deeds had made him acceptable to God, he would have had something to boast about. But that was not God's way. For the Scriptures tell us, "Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith."
Speak the Gospel, Paul!
Romans 4:4-5
When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned. But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners.
All right, Paul. Thank you for that beautiful word from the Lord.
So you see, there is nothing that we can do except have faith. That is the only way we are saved and made righteous. Jesus lives, forever and ever. Thank you, Lord Jesus, for counting us righteous by our faith! You are the Lion and the Lamb. The Alpha and the Omega. The Beginning and the End. You are Eternity and you are Forever. You are holy holy holy and your mercy endures forever. Forever, and ever, and ever. You are love, oh Jesus Christ Lord and Savior, and I love you!
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:25 am
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And this is where you and I differ in beliefs and doctrine. I don't believe people have sinful nature, I believe we have a fallen nature, there is a difference between the two.
We are separated physically from God because of the fall of Adam, subject to death, disease and other weaknesses of the flesh. Adam's fall does not condemn me before God, nor does it make me a sinner, my own actions do.
From the manual "True to the Faith"
Quote: Because of the Fall of Adam and Eve, all people live in a fallen condition, separated from God and subject to physical death. However, we are not condemned by what many call the "original sin." In other words, we are not accountable for Adam's transgression in the Garden of Eden. The Prophet Joseph Smith said, "We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression" (Articles of Faith 1:2).
And here is further info from various sources on the matter of man's nature, I will even provide scripture.
Quote: Through the Atonement, the Savior paid the price for the transgression in the Garden of Eden (see Moses 6:53). He has given us the assurance of resurrection and the promise that, based on our faithfulness, we can return to dwell in the presence of our Heavenly Father forever.
Quote: Our Fallen Condition As descendants of Adam and Eve, we inherit a fallen condition during mortality (see Alma 42:5–9, 14). We are separated from the presence of the Lord and subject to physical death. We are also placed in a state of opposition, in which we are tested by the difficulties of life and the temptations of the adversary (see 2 Nephi 2:11–14; D&C 29:39; Moses 6:48–49). In this fallen condition, we have a conflict within us. We are spirit children of God, with the potential to be "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4). However, "we are unworthy before [God]; because of the fall our natures have become evil continually" (Ether 3:2). We need to strive continually to overcome unrighteous passions and desires. Repeating the words of an angel, King Benjamin said, "The natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam." King Benjamin warned that in this natural, or fallen, state, each person will be an enemy to God forever "unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father" (Mosiah 3:19). Benefits of the Fall The Fall is an integral part of Heavenly Father's plan of salvation (see 2 Nephi 2:15–16; 9:6). It has a twofold direction—downward yet forward. In addition to introducing physical and spiritual death, it gave us the opportunity to be born on the earth and to learn and progress. Through our righteous exercise of agency and our sincere repentance when we sin, we can come unto Christ and, through His Atonement, prepare to receive the gift of eternal life. The prophet Lehi taught: "If Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end. "And [Adam and Eve] would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin. "But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things. "Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy. "And the Messiah cometh in the fulness of time, that he may redeem the children of men from the fall" (2 Nephi 2:22–26; see also 2 Nephi 2:19–21, 27). Adam and Eve expressed their gratitude for the blessings that came as a result of the Fall: "Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God. "And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient" (Moses 5:10-11). Redemption from the Fall Because of our fallen, mortal nature and our individual sins, our only hope is in Jesus Christ and the plan of redemption. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, everyone will be redeemed from the effects of the Fall. We will be resurrected, and we will be brought back into the presence of the Lord to be judged (see 2 Nephi 2:5–10; Alma 11:42–45; Helaman 14:15–17). In addition to redeeming us from the universal effects of the Fall, the Savior can redeem us from our own sins. In our fallen state, we sin and distance ourselves from the Lord, bringing spiritual death upon ourselves. As the Apostle Paul said, "All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). If we remain in our sins, we cannot dwell in the presence of God, for "no unclean thing can dwell . . . in his presence" (Moses 6:57). Thankfully, the Atonement "bringeth to pass the condition of repentance" (Helaman 14:1 cool , making it possible for us to receive forgiveness for our sins and dwell in the presence of God forever. Alma taught, "There was a space granted unto man in which he might repent; therefore this life became a probationary state; a time to prepare to meet God; a time to prepare for that endless state which has been spoken of by us, which is after the resurrection of the dead" (Alma 12:24). Gratitude for the Savior's Atoning Sacrifice Just as we do not really desire food until we are hungry, we will not fully desire eternal salvation until we recognize our need for the Savior. This recognition comes as we grow in our understanding of the Fall. As the prophet Lehi taught, "All mankind were in a lost and in a fallen state, and ever would be save they should rely on this Redeemer" (1 Nephi 10:6).
And here is some more scripture
Genesis 3; Mormon 9:12–14; Moses 4 (I will quote the two modern revelation verses in full if you'd like me to.)
I also never said our works are what save us. Jesus alone is who saves us! I have however, stated that works are necessary for our faith, otherwise our faith is dead, it's just lip service. Works alone do not grant us passage into Heaven. But the Bible also teaches us that by their fruits ye shall know them. So if a person is producing good works, he must be a good person, right? In some instances, I think Paul is greatly misunderstood by Christians. He is specifically addressing those people whom the book is titled; Corinthians, Romans, etc. that is who is talking to. He is responding to their questions that they have asked him. Since the Bible does not contain the manuscripts we cannot see how the questions from the Romans or Corinthians or who ever are phrased. We just have Paul's repsonses. This is also why I believe a lot of the early scholars debated about whether or not Paul's letters should be included in biblical canon, becaus of the fact that they cause so much confusion and are often misquoted and miscontrued.
I never said that works alone justify a person before God, so if you misunderstood on that, I am sorry and I will try to be more clear next time. But I want to emphasize that I have clarified my position about Heaven and hell, and I really hope that you will read the things I have posted. I also want to add that just because some one has a testimony of Christ does not make them "good." The Bible even says "they draw near to me with their lips but their hearts are far from me" Also Titus 1:16 is another example that demonstrates this principle. So hence why works are so important.
If all we needed was faith then there would not be so many passages in the Bible warning against lip service and many many passages emphasizing that we need works as well.
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:52 am
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Do you not get it? All we need IS faith. Lol.
If you have faith, you're going to do good works. If you are just saying that you have faith in Christ, you don't really have faith! I am not misunderstanding Paul. We are declared righteous only through our faith.
Just because I say the sky is red doesn't mean I believe the sky is red. This is the same principle. Just because somebody says that they believe in Christ doesn't mean they really do, and they know it, too.
All you need is faith. Just because somebody says they have "faith" doesn't mean they really do, or that they even believe they do. Faith is all you need.
...
As for being born of sin nature, you do make a trying case...
However,
Consider this passage.
Psalm 51:5
For I was born a sinner--yes, from the moment my mother conceived me.
David said that he was born a sinner. And Psalms are the Word of God just like all other passages. How do you explain this?
There aren't many, many passages emphasizing that we need both faith and works. Because we don't. One of the most popular passages is faith without works is dead. But this doesn't mean that we need works. It means that you will be able to tell whether people have faith or not because of good works. By their fruits you shall know them. This doesn't mean we need good works and faith.
You keep saying that you say that we don't need works, but then you turn around and say "If all we needed was faith...we need works as well."
We don't need works. Only faith.
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:12 pm
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Faith...it's just the assurance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. That's all it is.
So, therefore, I have faith in Christ, the assurance of things hoped for, I also have faith that He exists and is my Saviour, the evidence of things not seen. So for me to prove my faith, I need to have works, otherwise, like I said, it's just empty words.
Having faith is a work, believing in Christ is a work, baptism is a work, enduraning to the end is a work, obeying the Commandments is a work, etc.
Through works, like the ones I listed above, our faith is made perfect! We need works! To perfect our faith.
Here are the many many passages emphasizing that you need more than the WORK of faith
2 Chr. 15: 7 Be ye strong . . . for your work shall be rewarded.
Ps. 28: 4 (Rev. 2: 23) Give them according to their deeds.
Ps. 62: 12 (Prov. 24: 12, 29; Rom. 2: 5-11) renderest to every man according to his work.
Eccl. 12: 14 God shall bring every work into judgment.
Jer. 17: 10 (Jer. 32: 19) to give every man according to his ways.
Micah 6: 8 do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly.
Matt. 5: 6 they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness.
Matt. 5: 16 that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father.
Matt. 7: 12 whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them.
Matt. 7: 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.
Matt. 13: 23 received seed into the good ground . . . beareth fruit.
Matt. 16: 27 (1 Cor. 3: 8; Alma 9: 27-28; D&C 138: 59) shall reward every man according to his works.
Matt. 25: 40 as ye have done it unto one of the least of these . . . ye have done it unto me.
John 3: 21 he that doeth truth cometh to the light.
John 8: 39 If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
John 9: 4 I must work the works of him that sent me.
Acts 10: 35 he that . . . worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Rom. 2: 13 doers of the law shall be justified.
2 Cor. 5: 10 receive . . . according to that he hath done.
Gal. 6: 4 let every man prove his own work.
Gal. 6: 7 whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Eph. 2: 10 created in Christ Jesus unto good works.
Eph. 5: 9 fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness.
2 Tim. 3: 17 perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Titus 3: 8 be careful to maintain good works.
Heb. 13: 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will.
James 1: 22 be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only.
James 1: 27 Pure religion . . . is this, To visit the fatherless.
James 2: 22 by works was faith made perfect.
James 2: 26 faith without works is dead.
James 4: 17 him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not.
1 Pet. 1: 17 (Rev. 20: 12-13; 1 Ne. 15: 32; Mosiah 3: 24; Alma 33: 22; D&C 19: 3; D&C 76: 111; D&C 137: 9) Father . . . judgeth according to every man’s work.
1 Pet. 2: 12 your good works . . . glorify God.
2 Pet. 1: 5 add to your faith virtue.
1 Jn. 3: 18 let us not love in word . . . but in deed.
1 Jn. 3: 22 we receive of him, because we keep his commandments.
Rev. 22: 14 blessed are they that do his commandments.
Jacob 2: 19 riches . . . seek them for the intent to do good.
Mosiah 2: 17 when ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God.
Mosiah 5: 15 (Mosiah 7: 24) always abounding in good works.
Alma 5: 41 if a man bringeth forth good works.
Alma 13: 3 called . . . on account of their exceeding faith and good works.
Alma 26: 22 bringeth forth good works, and prayeth continually.
Alma 34: 28 if ye do not any of these things, behold, your prayer is vain.
Alma 34: 32 this life is the day for men to perform their labors.
Morm. 9: 29 see that ye do all things in worthiness.
D&C 6: 13 If thou wilt do good . . . thou shalt be saved.
D&C 6: 33 Fear not to do good.
D&C 18: 38 by . . . their works you shall know them.
D&C 58: 27 do many things of their own free will.
D&C 64: 33 be not weary in well-doing.
D&C 76: 17 They who have done good in the resurrection of the just.
D&C 81: 4 do the greatest good.
D&C 105: 24 neither boast of faith nor of mighty works.
D&C 112: 34 to recompense every man according as his work.
D&C 121: 25 time appointed for every man, according as his works.
A of F 13 We believe in . . . doing good.
And again I will quote any of the modern revelation scriptures in full if you need, so you can better understand their context that they are used.
So I ask, if the passage about faith without works is dead, does not mean what it says, then what does it mean? I mean to me, it's pretty blunt. You need works to show your faith or you are just giving lip service and drawing near to God with you lips, but your heart is far from Him.
About the Psalms 51:5 that you quoted, the King James version reads:
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
((I will just throw out that I have never liked the more modern translations of the Bible, they seem to distort the meaning and context of the passages, in my opinion))
Looks to me like he was talking about his mother, not himself. Looks to me like she was the one who committed some sort of sin and in turn conceived David.
And if it so happens that David is calling himself sinful by nature, that is his opinion of himself. This Psalm in particular is about David confessing his sins to God after he went to Bath-sheba. I don't know the full history of David very well, it's been a while since I have studied on him, so I may need to refresh my memory, but looks to me that he was not supposed to go to that location or some thing.
I will also add this
Quote: The Greek word of which this is the translation denotes a change of mind, i.e., a fresh view about God, about oneself, and about the world. Since we are born into conditions of mortality, repentance comes to mean a turning of the heart and will to God, and a renunciation of sin to which we are naturally inclined. Without this there can be no progress in the things of the soul’s salvation, for all accountable persons are stained by sin, and must be cleansed in order to enter the kingdom of heaven. Repentance is not optional for salvation; it is a commandment of God (D&C 18: 9-22; D&C 20: 29; D&C 133: 16). The preaching of repentance by John the Baptist formed the preparation for the ministry of our Lord. See Matt. 3: 2; Matt. 4: 17; Mark 1: 4, 15; Mark 2: 17; Luke 3: 3,8; Acts 2: 38; Acts 3: 19; Acts 8: 22; Rom. 13: 11-14; James 5: 1-6; Rev. 2: 5, 16; Rev. 3: 3, 19; cf. Isa. 1: 16-20; Jonah 3: 5-10; Jer. 3 - 5; Jer. 26; Ezek. 18: 19-31; Ezek. 33: 7-20; Hosea 13: 14; Hosea 14; Joel 1: 8; Joel 2; Zeph. 2; Zech. 1; Mal. 1 - 4.
It talks about our need for repentance because we are born with a fallen nature, we have a sort of natural inclination to sin, so thus comes to the need to repent. Plus, we are not spiritually reborn yet because of our separation from God, that is where baptism and the Holy Ghost come in to play.
Gen. 2: 17 (Moses 3: 17) in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Jonah 4: 11 persons that cannot discern between their right hand.
Luke 16: 15 that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination.
John 3: 7 I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Rom. 3: 10 There is none righteous, no, not one.
Rom. 3: 23 all have sinned, and come short of the glory.
Rom. 5: 12 death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.
Rom. 7: 18 in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing.
Rom. 8: 6 to be carnally minded is death.
1 Cor. 1: 26 many wise men after the flesh.
1 Cor. 2: 14 natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit.
1 Cor. 3: 3 For ye are yet carnal.
Gal. 4: 29 he that was born after the flesh persecuted him.
Eph. 2: 3 by nature the children of wrath.
2 Pet. 1: 4 corruption that is in the world through lust.
Mosiah 3: 19 natural man is an enemy to God.
Mosiah 16: 3 (Alma 42: 10; D&C 20: 20; Moses 5: 13; Moses 6: 49) all mankind becoming carnal, sensual, devilish.
Mosiah 16: 5 he that persists in his own carnal nature.
Mosiah 27: 25 born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state.
Alma 26: 21 what natural man is there that knoweth these things.
Alma 36: 4 know . . . not of the carnal mind but of God.
Alma 38: 6 if I had not been born of God I should not have known.
Alma 41: 11 all men that are in a state of nature.
D&C 29: 41 transgression, wherein he became spiritually dead.
D&C 67: 12 Neither can any natural man abide the presence of God.
D&C 121: 39 it is the nature and disposition of almost all men.
Moses 6: 55 when they begin to grow up, sin conceiveth in their heart.
Here are scripture references about the natural man.
If you need me to expound more, just ask and I can quote the scriptures in full for you as well.
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:25 pm
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VK Fox Someoneiknow Quote: They don't have Christ, and because they don't have Christ Quote: Even the demons believe in the Christ. Apparent contradiction? If all I have to do is believe in Christ to be saved, but yet even the demons believe in Christ, then how do we differentiate between Christians and non-believers? Perhaps by our "le gaspe!" works or as Paul states, our fruits. Quote me anywhere from any topic saying that all you have to do is believe. You've also neglected confession, repentance, and baptism.
I just did quote you. Those would be your quotes.
Those would be works of faith. |
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:16 pm
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:07 pm
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Scarlet_Teardrops
Faith isn't something you need to prove. You live your life in faith to Jesus Christ, and you will bear good fruits. For the Holy Spirit detests sin. And the Holy Spirit dwells within those who believe in Christ.
Like love. You don't have to prove you love somebody. If you truly love them, you will naturally just show it.
These passages all talk about works, but they do not lead me to believe that works are required, simply because they're not. Otherwise there would be no point in Jesus Christ's sacrifice because we could just earn our salvation through works. Or do you believe that people can go to heaven without Christ?
The only deed you need is faith. True faith, and the works will happen naturally. If you serve Jesus and He is your master, you won't serve the other masters. If you serve the other masters, you won't serve Jesus.
With this logic, all the terribly fat people would need to do is think that they're skinny, and all the work would be done for them.
You play a role in whether you shape yourself to be a good Christian. You must work at having faith. Christianity is not a religion of idleness and laziness, but your quotation there is trying to prove otherwise. |
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:33 pm
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Scarlet_Teardrops
Faith isn't something you need to prove. You live your life in faith to Jesus Christ, and you will bear good fruits. For the Holy Spirit detests sin. And the Holy Spirit dwells within those who believe in Christ.
Like love. You don't have to prove you love somebody. If you truly love them, you will naturally just show it.
These passages all talk about works, but they do not lead me to believe that works are required, simply because they're not. Otherwise there would be no point in Jesus Christ's sacrifice because we could just earn our salvation through works. Or do you believe that people can go to heaven without Christ?
The only deed you need is faith. True faith, and the works will happen naturally. If you serve Jesus and He is your master, you won't serve the other masters. If you serve the other masters, you won't serve Jesus.
You can't just tell some one you love them and then go off and cheat on them. You have to show you love them..That's proving your love. Just like you can't tell Christ you have faith in Him, then go off and get drunk every night. You have to show Him that you have faith in Him, that is where works come in, that is proving your faith to Him. You have to have works to show faith because without them, faith is dead! That is what the Epistle of James emphasizes in Chapter 2.
I have NEVER said nor did I imply that works earn salvation! You don't earn salvation, Christ gives it to you, but it is left up to you to accept the terms and conditions that come with that salvation. Works! Acceptance of Chirst's sacrifice for your sins is a work! Just like having faith in Him is a work!
You have to be worthy enough to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven because no sin can enter the Celestial Kingdom! Through works your faith becomes perfect, that is doctrine right out the bible, but yet you still insist that works are not necessary? |
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:39 pm
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Someoneiknow VK Fox Someoneiknow Quote: They don't have Christ, and because they don't have Christ Quote: Even the demons believe in the Christ. Apparent contradiction? If all I have to do is believe in Christ to be saved, but yet even the demons believe in Christ, then how do we differentiate between Christians and non-believers? Perhaps by our "le gaspe!" works or as Paul states, our fruits. Quote me anywhere from any topic saying that all you have to do is believe. You've also neglected confession, repentance, and baptism. I just did quote you. Those would be your quotes. Those would be works of faith.
Which are works done by.. Believers of Christ! Not someone who is of the Pagan faiths, Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist, Wiccan, etc. etc, which is what I was getting at two pages back. |
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Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:29 pm
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VK Fox Someoneiknow VK Fox Someoneiknow Quote: They don't have Christ, and because they don't have Christ Quote: Even the demons believe in the Christ. Apparent contradiction? If all I have to do is believe in Christ to be saved, but yet even the demons believe in Christ, then how do we differentiate between Christians and non-believers? Perhaps by our "le gaspe!" works or as Paul states, our fruits. Quote me anywhere from any topic saying that all you have to do is believe. You've also neglected confession, repentance, and baptism. I just did quote you. Those would be your quotes. Those would be works of faith. You're trippin'. Which one of those quotes says "All you need to do is believe in Christ?" The first one, or the second one? Which are works done by.. Believers of Christ! Not someone who is of the Pagan faiths, Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist, Wiccan, etc. etc, which is what I was getting at two pages back.
Where you said, "those faiths don't have Christ" which by in turn means, all you need is to believe in Christ. It's the axiom of your quote.
You just lumped jews in with Pagan beliefs? Do you even know what being Pagan is? Jews are no where near Pagan. That's like calling Captain Planet a industry loving freak. |
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Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:06 pm
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Someoneiknow VK Fox Someoneiknow VK Fox Someoneiknow Apparent contradiction? If all I have to do is believe in Christ to be saved, but yet even the demons believe in Christ, then how do we differentiate between Christians and non-believers? Perhaps by our "le gaspe!" works or as Paul states, our fruits. Quote me anywhere from any topic saying that all you have to do is believe. You've also neglected confession, repentance, and baptism. I just did quote you. Those would be your quotes. Those would be works of faith. You're trippin'. Which one of those quotes says "All you need to do is believe in Christ?" The first one, or the second one? Which are works done by.. Believers of Christ! Not someone who is of the Pagan faiths, Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist, Wiccan, etc. etc, which is what I was getting at two pages back. Where you said, "those faiths don't have Christ" which by in turn means, all you need is to believe in Christ. It's the axiom of your quote. You just lumped jews in with Pagan beliefs? Do you even know what being Pagan is? Jews are no where near Pagan. That's like calling Captain Planet a industry loving freak.
Pearls before swine. I'm done banging my head against a wall with you. |
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Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:45 pm
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VK Fox Someoneiknow VK Fox Someoneiknow VK Fox Someoneiknow Apparent contradiction? If all I have to do is believe in Christ to be saved, but yet even the demons believe in Christ, then how do we differentiate between Christians and non-believers? Perhaps by our "le gaspe!" works or as Paul states, our fruits. Quote me anywhere from any topic saying that all you have to do is believe. You've also neglected confession, repentance, and baptism. I just did quote you. Those would be your quotes. Those would be works of faith. You're trippin'. Which one of those quotes says "All you need to do is believe in Christ?" The first one, or the second one? Which are works done by.. Believers of Christ! Not someone who is of the Pagan faiths, Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist, Wiccan, etc. etc, which is what I was getting at two pages back. Where you said, "those faiths don't have Christ" which by in turn means, all you need is to believe in Christ. It's the axiom of your quote. You just lumped jews in with Pagan beliefs? Do you even know what being Pagan is? Jews are no where near Pagan. That's like calling Captain Planet a industry loving freak. Pearls before swine. I'm done banging my head against a wall with you.
If you say so. Last time I checked my pearls were scripture verses and things from the prophets, not rude comments where you insinuate that my religion is full of demons and that the Jews have paganistic beliefs. If you could prove your stance, that would be greatly beneficial, but alas, your argument cannot be backed scripturally, so you would rather assume that I'm just trying to throw crap at you, which is not the case.
It would greatly benefit your cause that if you call a few people out on a challenge, you back up that challenge with legitimate sources and debate, instead of giving up 3 comments into it. |
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Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:48 pm
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