Welcome to Gaia! ::

Actually marshjazz the majority of your posts have sounded insulting. To say others have their heads in the cloud but be so ignorant that you can't look around in your world and watch as good things are done by inherently bad people than deny that some greater force is driving them is ridiculous. I would have to say that as opposed to the close minded view you seem to think I have, you are the one who is much more close minded.

What tangible evidence do you need me to show you? What proof are you looking for?

Historians aren't always accurate. There are cover ups. Furthermore there is proof of things like the flood. Whale bones found on top of mountains... It's not proof of evolution. It's proof there was a great flood. Guess what science confirms there was a great flood over the earth after the continents had formed. Let me guess they are crack heads who belong in an insane asylum.

Jesus was recorded in other historical documentation other than the bible. So I guess historical texts don't actually mean anything to you since you are willing to ignore those. Check the census of the time. Have you heard of the works of Josephus. He was a Jewish historian, not a biblical figure in the least. Check roman documentation as well.

What are these contradictory items found in the bible? I'm curious to know how you know so much about them since you haven't read them yourself. You yourself said you haven't read a page of it. You are ignorant of what the bible really says. Or you are lying about having read the bible... your call.

I do not value myself higher than others by the way. I know that whatever grace I have been given is because God has granted me that. You may not believe or care about that but that's your choice. You are not my responsibility and I do not have to defend God to you. You would be unwilling to believe even if proof was set before you. You see only what you want to see and nothing more. Ignorance must be blissful.

I do not appreciate you acting like my life isn't given in devotion to serving God. You don't know if I'm homeless or not. You don't know how I'm accessing the internet. I could be at a library or a friends house. As it is I live with my ill mother and care for her. The internet was a gift from my brother so that I could stay in touch with the latest medical research and schooling. I do not pay for it. My money goes to paying medical bills and school expenses. God wants us to be good stewards of what he gives us. The money that doesn't pay for those things goes to help out the teens in my community by providing them with counseling and a friend in their times of crisis. Gaia is my escape from bills, stress, and daily grind. You do not know me. Please do not act like you do.

I will not be here for several days. I have to attend to my mother as she goes to another medical facility to try and figure out why the things that are happening to her are happening. You do not intimidate me and I am not simply leaving because I feel like it. I am obligated to do this. I will return and continue this discussion if you wish. I hope that in the future you will stop being an angsty teenage girl and try having mature conversation without the insults. You aren't the smartest person in the world, I know I am not the smartest person in the world as well. A better theologian, historian would blow your reasoning out of the water. As for your points being intelligent, you came up with conjectures with out support. Scientifically speaking your theories aren't even good enough to be called that.

I hope you read this and understand that your words have not angered me as much as devalued whatever it is you may say. Your insults only make you look like a fool. Putting rolling eyes in after you say something simply says to me that you are immature. Try being a bit more adult about it next time.

I hope you have a wonderful week and I look forward to our further discussions. Farewell. I will pray for you.

As Always,

The Melodious M

No. People are basically bad at heart. People are good for face value and because their "god" tells them they get a reward for it. Which makes them bad. If your doing something for a reward, then it is the same as doing it for yourself. Religious people are far from selfless. The only reason why christains are good at all is that they want is to get into god's good graces and get into heaven. It is human nature to only try and further themselves, wether or not someone gets hurt in the process. The only reasons why people go against their nature is if they are threatened or offered a reward. And in this case both.

I'm not looking for proof that he exists. I'm looking for proof that your supposed god is even a good guy. Let's start with something as basic as that. And sorry, I'm not the blind faith type.

Yeah, they proved a flood. And you CHOOSE to believe that it is the flood your bible mentions. Like you said, carbon dating is inaccurate, and the bible never states what year exactly the flood happened. The flood could have happened at any time. You don't know. And once again, if something is backed up by science those people don't belong in an in insane assylum. That whale could have been on top of that mountian for trillions of zillions of years. And furthermore, one carcus? That is all you have to offer me to prove that a flood happened? Didn't Noah take 2 of each animal? There had to have been hundreds of speices of animals at that time, atleast. Where are the other animals carcuses? If the whale lasted that long, there should be more carcuses. It could have just been high tide before the mountian formed. I'm not even getting into the rest of the geological ways that whale carcus could have gotten there.

Yeah, a guy named Jesus. There must have only been one Jesus in the history of the world. I'm sure of it. It's not like it could've been a common name of the day.

You know what else I notice? What do all those people have in common? They all believe in Jesus, so I doubt they weren't willing to lie about him. So yeah, I wouldn't trust what they said even if I gave a crap.

I'm not retarded. I know if I'm going to argue over how stupid it is to blindly believe in fiction I have to know somehting about the book. At one point I was Catholic and my mother told be bed time stories about the bible. It's not that hard to remember the main highlights of a book. Plus with as much biblical ignorance going around (and no, I don't mean ignorance of what is in the bible) it helps to know a little about it. You don't actually have to read something to know how full of crap it is.

As for some of those contridictions. We start with our base assumption. God is good. Then we see that god discriminates against people because of their sexual preferrence. Most of the world has alread agreed that discrimination is bad. So god discriminates, which clearly makes god bad.

God supposedly supports free will. But somehow the bible is against giving the mother a choice over her own body. It's anti-abortion. Hmmmm....That sounds like a great non-controling guy. He doesn't want to control anything at all. Nope. It's perfectly alright if the invisible man wants to control the world, but god forbid if a mere mortal do it.

God has his people work for him (your words not mine). How is that different than a slave owner? The only notable difference is they do it of their own free will. But they are practically brainwashed into doing it. They are scared of doing anything remotely bad for fear of God's furry. So that whole argument is useless.

Your god damns people to hell if they don't believe in him. Everyone who isn't Christian goes to hell. Yeah, that doesn't sound manipulative at all. Nor does it sound like discrimination. I find it ironic though that Pascal says that Christians are fine if another religion is correct so long as they lead a good life. Too bad Christianity isn't good enough to return the favor.

And yet, you have still failed to answer why god created a flawed race. God created a flawed race, which in turn created him to be flawless. How can a flawed race create something flawless. Why follow imperfection?

How can a good god sit by and watch his people suffer? Would you sit by while an inocent animal was abused? I hope not. We're basically animals to him, yet he just watches, like we're good entertainment. Atleast the devil doesn't claim to be good, so therefore he isn't a liar like god.

^ I'm interested in hearing your response to this. This is actually only the begining of a point that I want to make, but I want to see your reaction and response to this.

I'm ignorant in your eyes? You don't want to know what I think of you.

I see everything, not just what I want to. You only see what you want to. Your religion tells you that reincarnation doesn't exist, I however am open to it. I may not believe in it, but I do not deny it may exist. I don't deny that there may be a god. Although it is getting to the point that it makes no sense at all, so if her did exist, he wouldn't be the Christian god. I just think blind faith is stupid. Your the one who believes in an outdated book written by crazy people who saw ghosts. You barely see past the bible. Atleast you kind of admitted that Creationism was wrong. So why are you still adiment that the rest of the book is right. If creationism the way the bible tells it is wrong, why do you trust the rest of it to be right?

Christianity is so easy to find flaws in, that I've given up, even if I found another I wouldn't be able to remember it. To many already. One reason why people are still christian, is because they don't anaylize anything about the religion. People would easily make the above conclusion. If one thing is wrong, it's pretty safe to say that most of it is wrong.

Science disproves a lot about creation, and science is more believable, atleast you know science theorys were thought up by someone who went to college. I'd believe a science theory that is as far out as dinosours were on the moon, so long as it was thought up by a desently respectable scientist, before I believe in god (without proof). The bible could have been put together from stories parents used to tell their little kids to get them to fall asleep. Someone one day desided that we should compile it together because it was a good answer to the unanswered questions of the world of that day. I'll add that most of the answers the bible provides for have been answered. We know know why it rains. The bible is outdated. The bible provided reasons for why things happened, to the best it could. But now it just makes the people who believe in it look stupid. Because if you believe in it, you believe in everything expect this and that. Big bang provides evidense that suggests that God didn't create the world in 6 days. It's like you believe the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy exist, but you don't believe in Santa Clause.

And if proof was presented to me, I would believe that god exists. However there isn't a way to prove that god exists nor it there a way to disprove that he exists, more that we have. Yet people still blindly worship him. There is no way that I would follow an organized religion. Why? Because I am free thinking an can make up stories myself. I don't need a fictional book to help me. I am anti-religion. Meaning I'm not atheist. I agree with certain things some religions teach. Much of Satanism, where the worst sin you can have is stupidity. I like the idea of reincarnation that the Buddists have. I believe in aspects of Wiccan (ironically the most well thought out of all religions) I respect those religions, but I still include them in my anti-religion stand. I'll admit it, the religion I'm mostly against is Christianity.

That brings me to my next point. The old testement is nothing but a plagerism of Judeism's bible. The OT is exactly the same. Plagarism is bad. Which makes the bible bad. The bible is about god, which makes god bad.

I'm still waiting for god to strike me down for my non-belief. Were is that almighty power? Whatever happened to the end of the world. The whole place is going to go up in flames...wait, flames are supposed to be the devils business, he is supposed to be the evil one. God is supposed to be good and only think of ponies and rainbows. Unless of course you don't believe in him. How can something you don't believe in hurt you or send you to hell for not believing in him? He doesn't exist to you if you don't believe in him. So, no, I'm not going to Hell (well I might visit there. Hell, Michigan that is cool )



And you didn't create this topic to see why people are atheist, you created so that you can try to convert the godless people to your religion. To try and prove that atheism is the wrong religion and your religion is right. Which is perciscly why I hate religion, especially Christianity, always trying to convert people thinking they are right, just because they made a disprovable god. And even when he is clearly disproved in one point, they argue that he still made it happen. stare

Most people who are going to be scientists or are scientists aren't religious. Alot of them are atheist. There seems to be a corrilation between people who are educated to think critically and them being atheist or un-religious. I hardly ever see doctors talking about how great god is. When I go into the doctors office the doctor tells me to take my medication to get better, not that god will cure all my pains. I hardly see doctors giving any credit to god for what they do. I find that very interesting.

It's hard not to sound insulting when all of your points are about as empty as air. Stop cherry-picking points to refute. Refute them all, or refute none of them. When you don't refute something, I take it as a win for me. And as it stands anything you have refuted has been either weak or backed by religion, which just makes them pathetic. You can't expect me to turn over to Christianity because your backing your opinions with your opinions.



Anyways, this is beginning to bore me. Were not going to change either one's views, and honestly, I don't care anymore. Religion is a losing battle. My opinions are my opinions, and that is the end of that. To me church will ALWAYS be a big waste of time.

I can't say that I am atheist, but I have some freinds...and some points...



First off: it's totally understandable not to believe in God! I say this because ( as I said in a differant debate) I depends on who you are, and what you are willing to belieive...As for atheists I find good freinds in them because they are unique because they don't take sides! and I love that Charlottes web kinda vibe you got going there!


Salutations to you too!

There are so many things that motivate an atheist. But the one that came to my mind first was depression. I know from experience that depression can motivate an atheist because like normal when you are having a hard time, or things aren't working out, you seek help and immediate relief. When that doesn't come, the first thing most people think is "Is someone really up there helping me?" I have thought that many things and spent lots of time pondering it.

<3

Someone who is depressed is more likely to be an atheist, since most people who suffer from depression do because they are realists.

But that does not mean that the two are in any way linked.

The common theme in atheist debates comes from questioning the bible. I honestly came to my faith through questioning. If I was to just accept christ blindly, I could do away with him just as easily. When I questioned the bible though, there was always an answer in it somewhere, unless I knew it was a question that wasn't really meant to be answered.

Ignoring them would make someone ignorant and unreliable, if someone disregards their importance then they are in denial, and anyone who doesn't care about the answer, for fear of being wrong or upsetting the deeply religious, is stupid.