The Silmarillion: A Group Reading [update 4.12.05]

[Nimbrethil]

Yeah, it's Ilmare. Accents on the e, I think. And yay Hamlet! XD

My comments = crappy this week. I blame school. And heartless multinational corporations who exploit the plight of developing nations, just because they're always good to blame for things in general.

Of the Beginning of Days
I think I only skimmed this chapter on my previous read-throughs, because I don't seem to remember reading any of it before. Or maybe I just have a worse memory than I thought I did. Anyway, I read it many times this week to make up for it.

The beginning makes me cheer on account of Tulkas and his mighty a**-kicking skillz. Muah.

And then the Valar get their stuff destroyed and run as far west as they can. Aw. At least they make Valinor nice. I thought up this analogy where Melkor's like a fly that lands in your soup, and the soup is Arda, but I also have this rule whereby the time taken to tell a joke must be in proportion to how funny it is. In other words, it's not worth explaining.

Learned a new word:
Redounds; as in, "...all that they do redounds at the end only to the glory of my work." Apparently, it's from a Middle English word that came from an Old French word. Apparently, Tolkien used words with roots in Old English (i.e. words that aren't French or Latin or whathaveyou in origin) as much as possible when writing LotR. So says my English teacher. And it makes sense, and she's probably right, but I'm not about to go through LotR with the OED (that's Oxford English, not Old English XD) and look up every word. The only example I can remember is the word "doom". That's a strange tangent. Anyhoo...

Aaand I can't remember what else I had to say. Gah.

Of Aule and Yavanna
Homan. Very entertaining. Aule's little punch line at the end makes me laugh.

Besides that, I like the story of Aule creating the Dwarves. I kept thinking of that Ted Nasmith picture with Aule about to destroy his creation. Strange how there wasn't mention of seven Dwarf mothers (or even one), but oh well. I'm not going to speculate on the reproductive methods of Dwarves.
I like the Ents creation story too, just because it's a concept that sounds strange in the explanation, but is familiar at the same time.  

[Elainya]

Aule's line at the end of "Of Aule and Yavanna" made me gigglesnort too. So far, it's the only part of The Silmarillion that I've laughed at, aside from laughing at the complete stupidity of a certain Noldor. It sucks being so far ahead in the reading.

Anyway, something I've always wondered is how to pronounce Aule's name. I personally (And probably very inaccuratly) say is as oy-le. It means "Owl" in German, and it's the first pronounciation that came to mind.  

[Falathrim]

Ow'leh.

Must. Read...  

[Thaxul]

I read 'Of the beginning of Days' last night, but I can't remember much of it....I'l re-read later, and post my thoughts then too.  

[Falathrim]

OF THE BEGINNING OF DAYS

My Eru, the second part is like the Valaquenta all over again. Grrr. Oh well. I don't like how the Valar fled Middle-earth, never to return again with three exceptions. They know the Quendi and the Atani will awaken in Middle-earth, yet still they abandon it to Melkor. I sometimes wonder whether these guys have any capacity to think at all. But you know I think that, so I'll move on.

It's interesting that later in his life Tolkien rejected the entire first half of this chapter. Lamps? Wha? No. That's nonsense. Lamps never lit Arda, that was the Sun. Duh.

It saddens me to see that Middle-earth is left dark. Sure, I like the stars and the darkness, but no light ever? That's sad. All things green would perish, and the world is left to the devices of Melkor. All that is nice and desirable is West of West, gaurded by the Pelori. All else is black.

A Favorite Quote

For which reason the Valar are to these kindreds rather their elders and their chieftains than their masters; and if ever if the dealings of Elves and Men the Ainur have endeavoured to force them when they would not be guided, seldom has this turned to good, howsoever good the intent.

Poor Numenoreans. sad

Other Favorite Quote

Yet of old the Valar decalred to the Elves in valinor that Men shall join in the Second Music of the Aniur; whereas Iluvatar has not revealed what he purposes for the Elves after the World's end, and Melkor has not discovered it.

HAH! Take that, you stupid Firstborn, always prancing around with your arrogance and nobility, making us seem inferior grumble grumble...


OF AULE AND YAVANNA

First things first. I thought it might interest you to know that this chapter was not intedned to be included in the QS by Tolkien; it was inserted as an editorial decision by Chris. Who is supposedly me. Thank me later. Yay.

Is it me, or is this chapter the only time that Manwe ever... moves? I can't recall him doing anything other than sitting on Taniquetil. Boring...

INFO ON THE DWARVES: Aule made seven clans. These clans were composed of males and females. The Seven Fathers would be the Seven Kings of the Seven Houses, and they would be those seven Dwarves that Aule was about to destroy before Eru. Of all the Incarnates of Arda, only the Seven Fathers of the Dwarves are capable of reincarnation.

When they die, Dwarves head to Mandos, just like Elves and Men. There, they stay. Forever. Until Arda is broken. Then, they are released, and they will aid Aule in the remaking of Arda. Unless they are one of the Seven Fathers. Then, they will randomly leave and reincarnate, should their hosue need it.

Make sense? No? Yay.

Favorite Quote

I don't... really have one. Opps.

 

[Nimbrethil]

Re: Dwarf stuff:

Oh, so he really made lots of them, but the Seven Fathers are the ones he had handy and was going to destroy first. Gotcha.

That's interesting that the chapter wasn't intended to be a part of the Sil. Any info on why? Maybe just because it's an amusing sort of story on its own but doesn't "fit" neatly into the narrative chronology of the story? Just speculating.

Edit: Thought I'd point out that this is the last day for these two readings. I'ma go update the first post so that we can move on ^_^  

[Falathrim]

While I can't for the life of me remember where the first half of this chapter (Dwarven creation) was pulled from, I can tell you that the second half (Of the Ents and Eagles) is an essay written by Tolkien known as the Anaxartaron Onyalie.

Hmmm. I'm going to be sad if I don't remember where the first half came from soon. sad

I will say this. Quenta Silmarillion means History of the Silmarils. Quenta Noldorinwa means History of the Noldor. Does the creation of the Dwarves factor in much with either subject? In the grand scheme, perhaps. Or perhaps not.  

[Nimbrethil]

Falathrim

I will say this. Quenta Silmarillion means History of the Silmarils. Quenta Noldorinwa means History of the Noldor. Does the creation of the Dwarves factor in much with either subject? In the grand scheme, perhaps. Or perhaps not.

Then does "The Silmarillion" actually mean anything on its own? And why is it the title of a book that includes the Akallabeth and that Third Age stuff? Why didn't I think to ask this before? You're always supposed to think about the title.

The Dwarves aren't the only indirectly relevant story in the QS. Maeglin and Turin spring to mind. Although their stories wouldn't have happened if not for the Silmarils and the Noldor and such. Yeah. I got nothing.  

[Caeleste]

I don't have much to say on these chapters. So instead of over-analyzing and saying something stupid, I'll refrain from commenting until another time.  

[Falathrim]

The Silmarillion is named as such because the greater part of the book is composed of by the Quenta Silmarillion. The Akallabeth is not a part of the Silmarillion proper, and was in fact composed entirely separately. It was only included because Tolkien felt it was important to have information regarding the Second Age published along side the Quenta. Same for Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age.

The Dwarves themselves are important to the Silmarils, but their creation? Not so much.  

[Thaxul]

((Sorry this is late sweatdrop ))

Of The Beginning of the Days
A very dull chapter for me. Just the Valar and Melkor on Arda isn't very interesting at all. Next chapter.

Of Aule and Yavanna
This chapter was more to my taste. Illuvitars (sp?) decision to let the Dwarves exist after their creation was my favourite part. I liked how Aule was going to crush them with a big hammer when he was told to destroy them. twisted One question; Where did Aule leave them the Dwarves to await the coming of the elves? Did he just bury them in some cave?

Yavanna's idea to allow the trees punish those who have wronged them was great, as i have always loved the Ents. But I remember in the film, that the Elves taught the trees to talk, and awakened them? Does this happen in later chapters?  

[Falathrim]

The Ents get one more mention in the Quenta, and even then you need to be reading closely or you will not catch it.

The Dwarves were hidden away in cavenrs built under great mountains. The two Houses of the Dwarves that are dealt with in the Quenta (The Broadbeams of Belegost and the Firebeards of Nogrod) awoke in the northern regions of the Ered Luin. The Longbeards, or Durin's Folk, awoke in Mt. Gundabad. The remaining four Houses awoke in the East, and did not come into the tales of the Silmarillion.

You may better know Mt. Gundabad as the Orc-capitol of the Third Age. The Dwarves never did forgive the Orcs for invading the realm of their awakening...  

[Thaxul]

Ah, i will look out for the Ent's part when reading that section.  

[Falathrim]

Is it a bad thing that I already read this week's reading, but did so out of Morgy's Ring instead of the published Silmarillion?

They're... kind of similar...  

[Nimbrethil]

There are corresponding chapters in Morgoth's Ring?

It probably is bad, but really, it's not like you haven't read those chapters from the Sil already. And since I'm sure you remember them in crystalline detail, there should be no problems when you go to comment. It's a perfect plan!