A bunch of idiots!!!!

[xxKellieUriexx]

Rainbowfied Mouse

xxKellieUriexx

learn english

Tell that to the immigrants of the 1800s-early 1900s... I'm sure they'll understand your English. The same people that most people are related to.

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and pay taxes just like anyother GOOD American citizen.

Really, I didn't realize that paying taxes results you into a 'good' status...

It's different now. A lot of those people came here legally and worked. They didn't sit on their asses all day and survive on welfare.

Why should people sit all day and have other people pay for their lives? It's not right. There is no reason a person should do nothing and not pay taxes. My family is lower middle class because we have to pay for all the druggies, alchoholics, and just plain lazy asses so live on money they shouldn't even be getting if they're not sick. Believe me, I know. My dad has payed my half brothers mother for years, supporting her drug habit. She doesn't even use the money for my brother. They are perfectly able to get a freakin job, but they don't.  

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

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It's different now. A lot of those people came here legally and worked. They didn't sit on their asses all day and survive on welfare. Why should people sit all day and have other people pay for their lives? It's not right.

I was not aware that all illegal immigrants collected welfare... from what I hear they work off their asses for less!

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There is no reason a person should do nothing and not pay taxes.

There is when you're not a registered citizen that works for less than the american minimum wage, and paying taxes could result in compromising your immigration status and result in deportation.

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My family is lower middle class because we have to pay for all the druggies, alchoholics, and just plain lazy asses so live on money they shouldn't even be getting if they're not sick.

Taxes don't effect your social class. They might effect the economy, which in turn could indirectly effect your class, but, your parents income is what makes them lower,middle,upper class.

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Believe me, I know. My dad has payed my half brothers mother for years, supporting her drug habit.

Sounds like a personal problem that shouldn't be reflected into policy. Simple solution, rehab.

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She doesn't even use the money for my brother. They are perfectly able to get a freakin job, but they don't.

Hmm... I'm "perfectly able" to get a job, but when the economy is in crisis, I cannot seem to find someone willing to employ me. Honestly, what does any of this have to do with immigration?  

[Lord Bitememan]

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It's different now. A lot of those people came here legally and worked. They didn't sit on their asses all day and survive on welfare.

Actually, in the early 1900s there was a boom in industry and they let in waves of immigrants en masse to address the need for cheap labor in the factories. In the 1990s we had a building boom in the US. The difference between then and now is that the government wouldn't let in waves of immigrants to fill the building jobs, so companies took the illegal immigrants they could find. It's a fallacy that they don't work. They do. In fact you can't actually collect welfare if you are not legally a citizen. The only social services that are legally accorded to you are police protection from crime, emergency room hospital treatment, and their kids are schooled. That's it. Otherwise, it's work or starve.

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My family is lower middle class because we have to pay for all the druggies, alchoholics, and just plain lazy asses so live on money they shouldn't even be getting if they're not sick

The tax rates aren't high enough to do that. Welfare abuse is a travesty, but the truth is it occupies such a small portion of the budget your family literally pays pennies a week for it. That's not reducing your social class in the slightest.

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Believe me, I know. My dad has payed my half brothers mother for years, supporting her drug habit. She doesn't even use the money for my brother.

What you're discussing isn't welfare fraud, it's flaws in the child support system. A meritorious issue, but totally off topic in an immigration thread. Trust me, I've considered starting a men's guild on Gaia to discuss issues like this all on their own. But, it's got nothing to do with immigration.

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There is when you're not a registered citizen that works for less than the american minimum wage, and paying taxes could result in compromising your immigration status and result in deportation.

Paying taxes is an obligation of all who enjoy the privilege of living and working in the United States. It is not right for Mexicans to come to the United States and partake of the benefits of our system, benefits that Mexico could not afford them, and not pay taxes to the government like every other worker.  

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

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There is when you're not a registered citizen that works for less than the american minimum wage, and paying taxes could result in compromising your immigration status and result in deportation.

Paying taxes is an obligation of all who enjoy the privilege of living and working in the United States. It is not right for Mexicans to come to the United States and partake of the benefits of our system, benefits that Mexico could not afford them, and not pay taxes to the government like every other worker.

I'm not saying it's right... I'm just saying had I been an illegal immigrant, I wouldn't be paying taxes until I was legal... if I'm not a citizen, why should I pay taxes when that could result in deportation? I wouldn't do it in fear. I would be in support of the government passing a bill that would allow the taxing of illegal immigrants without their discovery resulting in deportation.  

[Lord Bitememan]

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I'm just saying had I been an illegal immigrant, I wouldn't be paying taxes until I was legal

And you would be abusing the system. You would be travelling to work on roads you aren't helping financially to maintain, enjoying the protections of police and fire services you aren't paying to support, putting any children with you into an educational system you aren't funding, while enjoying the security and protection of a nation whose defense forces you are not contributing to. The conditions we have fostered in this nation through our advanced state of infrastructure and public services creates an atmosphere where economic opportunity is possible. To partake in it without paying your fair share of the bill is something that people have a right to bear resentment towards.

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if I'm not a citizen, why should I pay taxes when that could result in deportation?

Why should you come here under auspices that risk your deportation? Why not come here legally and enjoy the responsibilities as well as the benefits of society?

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I would be in support of the government passing a bill that would allow the taxing of illegal immigrants without their discovery resulting in deportation.

Anytime public knowledge is obtained of someone here illegally they should be deported, period. There are no merits to the bill you discuss, other than scrapping any measure of border control we could possibly maintain a pretense to.  

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

Lord Bitememan

And you would be abusing the system. You would be travelling to work on roads you aren't helping financially to maintain, enjoying the protections of police and fire services you aren't paying to support, putting any children with you into an educational system you aren't funding, while enjoying the security and protection of a nation whose defense forces you are not contributing to.

I also would be working for less than the average american, most likely less than minimum wage, and be at constant risk of being deported.

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To partake in it without paying your fair share of the bill is something that people have a right to bear resentment towards.

Again, I'd most likely be making less than minimum wage.

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Why should you come here under auspices that risk your deportation? Why not come here legally and enjoy the responsibilities as well as the benefits of society?

Legally can take too long, and I want gratification quickly, and better opportunity.  

[Pumona]

RainbowField Mouse,
There are laws and companies will get caught for paying under miniumun wage for anyone including illegals.
Companies will also get in trouble for hiring illegals and can be shut down if they do not comply.
And another thing it may take awhile to become a citizen here, but we(the United States)needs to protect our country from terrorist's and help to stop over population. I know you want to trust everyone, but you will need to learn you can not.  

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

Pumona

RainbowField Mouse,
There are laws and companies will get caught for paying under miniumun wage for anyone including illegals.
Companies will also get in trouble for hiring illegals and can be shut down if they do not comply.

Yeah- because they can't get hired in a regular company, because they are illegal.

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And another thing it may take awhile to become a citizen here, but we(the United States)needs to protect our country from terrorist's

I know, and 20years ago, we had to save our country from the horrible communists and socialists.

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and help to stop over population.

Immigration won't help/hurt the world's overpopulation problem... in fact it helps out our country. Cheaper labour = cheaper products = happier americans. Besides, they take up the jobs normal people don't want.

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I know you want to trust everyone, but you will need to learn you can not.

I understand I cannot... I'm sometimes too optimistic for my own good, but we have to look beyond the "immigration problem" and get down to the individual level. The family that had a hard time working in Mexico because the husband's brother was linked in the Drug Cartel. We tend to look at a macro rather than micro view... we talked about this in psychology, it's a simple way of not feeling so bad. If we hear about a group of 10people getting killed in China for fighting for their rights, we'll feel some sympathy, but it's much greater if you know the person and have a relationship.  

[RiderOfTheLightning]

i say, ship em back, they never belonged her, why pay millions when were already in debt  

[Lord Bitememan]

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I also would be working for less than the average american, most likely less than minimum wage, and be at constant risk of being deported.

As Pumona said, there's laws and procedures against even employing illegals under minimum wage. Look up Ceasar Chaves if you need more clarification on this. Aside from witch, some Americans work for less than the average American. Look up the term "average" if you don't understand why. What about all the below-average Americans who pay income tax?

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Again, I'd most likely be making less than minimum wage.

See above.

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Legally can take too long, and I want gratification quickly, and better opportunity.

I want an X-Box 360 given to me by the federal govt., but it isn't going to happen now is it? It's not reasonable for people from a differing system to expect us to make accommodations for them because they hail from a differing system that failed to adequately accommodate them. We fought the struggle ourselves to provide for our own. Let other countries and systems be so motivated to make the same struggle, not free ride off our hard-fought gains.  

[Skibblez]

anyone who crosses the border illegaly is trespassing on american soil and their presense here is an act of war. they come in, take jobs, they steal u.s. money and resources and send it out of the u.s. into other countries, thus harming our economy. they are invaders and war criminals and they should be treated as such. oh but nice arms-wide-open america would never do that right? well when the founding fathers fought in the american revolution, did they just arrest the british soldiers and slap them on the wrist, telling them they were bad boys and shouldn't be here?? no they killed them and we won the war. that's what we need to do with the illegals, either deport them, or kill the ones that resist. they aren't just poor needy people coming to america for food and money, we don't have infinite resources to give away to the whole world. they are enemy soldiers and terrorists.  

[Skibblez]

Rainbowfied Mouse

Pumona

RainbowField Mouse,
There are laws and companies will get caught for paying under miniumun wage for anyone including illegals.
Companies will also get in trouble for hiring illegals and can be shut down if they do not comply.

Yeah- because they can't get hired in a regular company, because they are illegal.

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And another thing it may take awhile to become a citizen here, but we(the United States)needs to protect our country from terrorist's

I know, and 20years ago, we had to save our country from the horrible communists and socialists.

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and help to stop over population.

Immigration won't help/hurt the world's overpopulation problem... in fact it helps out our country. Cheaper labour = cheaper products = happier americans. Besides, they take up the jobs normal people don't want.

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I know you want to trust everyone, but you will need to learn you can not.

I understand I cannot... I'm sometimes too optimistic for my own good, but we have to look beyond the "immigration problem" and get down to the individual level. The family that had a hard time working in Mexico because the husband's brother was linked in the Drug Cartel. We tend to look at a macro rather than micro view... we talked about this in psychology, it's a simple way of not feeling so bad. If we hear about a group of 10people getting killed in China for fighting for their rights, we'll feel some sympathy, but it's much greater if you know the person and have a relationship.

omg! nice fluffy relationships with individual illegal immigrants won't save this country fronm the destruction they cause!!  

[Latopazora]

ok, I'm dumb or naive, but I thought illegal immigrants did pay taxes- at least that's their mantra "we work and pay taxes just like you"?  

[Lord Bitememan]

Skibblez

they are enemy soldiers and terrorists.

There is absolutely no legal or traditional precedent to back this claim. This statement is truly devoid of any reading or understanding of either the subjects of immigration or warfare.  

[Skibblez]

Lord Bitememan

Skibblez

they are enemy soldiers and terrorists.

There is absolutely no legal or traditional precedent to back this claim. This statement is truly devoid of any reading or understanding of either the subjects of immigration or warfare.

well what do enemy soldiers/ terrorists cause? damage. damage to peoples lives, jobs, the economy etc, they come in, they take, the steal, they kill, and they give nothing back. besically the same thing as an illegal immigrant.