Big plot holes in Faith of the Fallen?? o_x

[Phanari]

I'm too confused from the accident to notice any plotholes.  

[Miki Hikari]

Carrie Macabre

I was just reading through Faith of the Fallen for the second time (eh, the habbits of an excelling English student) critically, and I noticed... there are GAPING plot holes in the whole conflict concerning Nicci and Kahlan. When they're linked by the maternity spell.
The most obvious, and biggest, example is when Kahlan goes down into the Old World, and into the same city as Richard, and Nicci doesn't know about it.
O_o
Didn't she say "if you follow, I will know, and you will die", or something along those lines? And she warned Richard many times over that if someone was sent to follow, even at a distance, she would know, and Kahlan would die? O_o I just dont get it. And then she was so CLOSE to Nicci and to be experiencing such emotions... WOULDNT SHE NOTICE?!
By the time Kahlan went to find Richard Nicci was thinking quite differently than she was when she captured Richard. She was questioning everything she ever knew. She was no longer concerned with where Kahlan was, and if she did give it thought it would have probably pleased her to know she could bring this mistake to an end without hurting Richard any more than she had. By this time she was in love with him.

And then there's times where Kahlan gets hurt and exhausted, and it dosent tell on Nicci, and vice versa. >.< it chewed at me the whole way through.

Kahlan lost a bunch of weight, suffered when Nicci gave away the money on the way to the Old World, suffered the brutal encounter with the thug boy, and was often run down and didn’t know why. I believe we got the picture, any more and it would have gotten tedious.

I never got whether Nicci felt Kahlan’s pain, I don’t think she did. I do however believe Nicci would have died if Kahlan offed herself, but we’ll never know I guess.

And there were a few other plot holes as far as I was concerned, with Nicci being so close to the Emporer's palace, and therefore there would BOUND to be military officials there, and if she was "Jagang's favorite" or whatever, the "Queen Slave"... wouldn't the officials/soldiers NOTICE?! Dx

Notice? Notice what? Everyone knew her or knew of her, but that doesn’t mean everyone would instantly recognize her. There weren’t missing scrolls posted all over the old world with her mug painted on them. When she chose to be recognized she had no trouble with the soldiers knowing her and hopping to her every word. Other than that she was just one of the other stinking populace and not one individual counted, so why notice? Why even bother meeting their eyes?

I dunno. It's been one of the more irritating books for me to read through critically. Most pass with almost-ease, but this one bugged me.
And also... NOTHING HAPPENED. The thing went around in a complete circle, and you could have just done WITHOUT the whole journey, I think. It was probably a time killer, for an author's block but... is anyone else troubled/annoyed by this one book?

Nothing Happened?
A woman’s soul was saved. A woman who grew up believing the garbage her mother shoved down her throat for her to spew out at relevant times. A woman who had no respect for life at all learned to care. She learned that being a selfless being was not the blessed life she was indoctrinated into and loving one’s self and having pride in one’s own accomplishments was not the sin she feared it was. Her father is not in the dark with the keeper as her mother taught her he would be. To be with her as she went through these soul shattering changes was not a … how did you put it?… a time killer…I found it a very worth while journey that I’m glad Terry allowed us to go on.

Nothing Happened?
One man changed the lives of a whole community. He showed by example that life was worth putting an effort into. His light touched everyone he came in contact with, even those who resented him. He gave them beauty, beauty they had never seen. He gave them self worth, something they had never known. He gave them ambition, where before they expected everything done for them he taught them to do for themselves.
He taught them to stand up and live their lives, where before they were the living dead.

You
are
awesome.

I was afraid I was one of the few people who loved faith of the fallen.  

[Samurai_Honto]

OMG I love Faith of the Fallen too!
So far, Faith of the Fallen is my favorite. I liked the social commentary aspect of it, on government, economy, the negative impact of guilt-tripping and brain-washing the masses, and the dangers of blind faith in society's institutions and lack of faith in the individuals that make up society.

But most of all, I liked the inspirational aspect of it. Everyone is worth something, and that means you. Anyone can and should work to build a life that they can enjoy. No one is worthless. Beauty, individuality, and freedom are things that are worth fighting for.

Also, Kalahn was pretty kick-arse in this one. I love it when we get to see the Mother Confessor in action.

If there was one book that I got impatient with, it was Pillars of Creation. Though it introduced some fascinating and important magical concepts, I would have liked to see more of Richard and Kalahn. Though it was interesting to see things almost entirely from a Jagang-influenced, anti-Richard perspective, I spent most of the book thinking: this is all very interesting, but where's Richard? Where's Kalahn? I was practically in withdrawal by the time they showed up.  

[First Wizard Zorander]

Miki Hikari

Carrie Macabre

I was just reading through Faith of the Fallen for the second time (eh, the habbits of an excelling English student) critically, and I noticed... there are GAPING plot holes in the whole conflict concerning Nicci and Kahlan. When they're linked by the maternity spell.
The most obvious, and biggest, example is when Kahlan goes down into the Old World, and into the same city as Richard, and Nicci doesn't know about it.
O_o
Didn't she say "if you follow, I will know, and you will die", or something along those lines? And she warned Richard many times over that if someone was sent to follow, even at a distance, she would know, and Kahlan would die? O_o I just dont get it. And then she was so CLOSE to Nicci and to be experiencing such emotions... WOULDNT SHE NOTICE?!
By the time Kahlan went to find Richard Nicci was thinking quite differently than she was when she captured Richard. She was questioning everything she ever knew. She was no longer concerned with where Kahlan was, and if she did give it thought it would have probably pleased her to know she could bring this mistake to an end without hurting Richard any more than she had. By this time she was in love with him.

And then there's times where Kahlan gets hurt and exhausted, and it dosent tell on Nicci, and vice versa. >.< it chewed at me the whole way through.

Kahlan lost a bunch of weight, suffered when Nicci gave away the money on the way to the Old World, suffered the brutal encounter with the thug boy, and was often run down and didn’t know why. I believe we got the picture, any more and it would have gotten tedious.

I never got whether Nicci felt Kahlan’s pain, I don’t think she did. I do however believe Nicci would have died if Kahlan offed herself, but we’ll never know I guess.

And there were a few other plot holes as far as I was concerned, with Nicci being so close to the Emporer's palace, and therefore there would BOUND to be military officials there, and if she was "Jagang's favorite" or whatever, the "Queen Slave"... wouldn't the officials/soldiers NOTICE?! Dx

Notice? Notice what? Everyone knew her or knew of her, but that doesn’t mean everyone would instantly recognize her. There weren’t missing scrolls posted all over the old world with her mug painted on them. When she chose to be recognized she had no trouble with the soldiers knowing her and hopping to her every word. Other than that she was just one of the other stinking populace and not one individual counted, so why notice? Why even bother meeting their eyes?

I dunno. It's been one of the more irritating books for me to read through critically. Most pass with almost-ease, but this one bugged me.
And also... NOTHING HAPPENED. The thing went around in a complete circle, and you could have just done WITHOUT the whole journey, I think. It was probably a time killer, for an author's block but... is anyone else troubled/annoyed by this one book?

Nothing Happened?
A woman’s soul was saved. A woman who grew up believing the garbage her mother shoved down her throat for her to spew out at relevant times. A woman who had no respect for life at all learned to care. She learned that being a selfless being was not the blessed life she was indoctrinated into and loving one’s self and having pride in one’s own accomplishments was not the sin she feared it was. Her father is not in the dark with the keeper as her mother taught her he would be. To be with her as she went through these soul shattering changes was not a … how did you put it?… a time killer…I found it a very worth while journey that I’m glad Terry allowed us to go on.

Nothing Happened?
One man changed the lives of a whole community. He showed by example that life was worth putting an effort into. His light touched everyone he came in contact with, even those who resented him. He gave them beauty, beauty they had never seen. He gave them self worth, something they had never known. He gave them ambition, where before they expected everything done for them he taught them to do for themselves.
He taught them to stand up and live their lives, where before they were the living dead.

You
are
awesome.

I was afraid I was one of the few people who loved faith of the fallen.

I love Faith of the Fallen as well.

A lot happened. If nothing else, this book amplified the emphasis Goodkind puts in the ideals he displays through Richard. The concept of no religion, only you as a person and how you should rise up and live your life.

Plus, he eliminates Brother Narev, practically the source and strongest influence of the teachings of the Order itself. Jagang, if no one else, looked up to Narev.

Jagangs to-be-unstoppable palace is destroyed before it could become the capital of a world under jagang's control.

And the conversion of one of Richard's most dangerous enemies becomes his strongest ally -- a sorceress with both Additive and Subtractive magic, one of the rarest people in the world.

And above all else, on of my most favorite and powerful of Wizard's Rules. The Sixth Rule: The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason.

That's what happened in this book.  

[Phanari]

Um............I hear that Goodkind doesn't go farther with General R and Cara's relationship. I was told that basically, they like each other and hook up but nothing MORE happens. ::sigh:: I was hoping they would, I don't know...............fall madly for each other like Verna/Warren and Richard/Kahlan. But I suppose that's a bit too happy of an ending considering Verna LOSES Warren and Richard and Kahlan get separated through HALF the series.
::sigh:: Still..............happy romance is good too. Sometimes, if it's done as titilating as Mord Sith are which......Cara? Of course it would be..........it would have a positive impact on the story as a whole and people WOULD maybe become more interested in the side of HOPE?  

[why_wait28]

Phanari

Once again I find myself agreeing with Platinum. Nicci did what she did because the author did not wish to kill her yet.

I agree.  

[Phanari]

why_wait28

Phanari

Once again I find myself agreeing with Platinum. Nicci did what she did because the author did not wish to kill her yet.

I agree.

LOL! It's kinda funny how we all have the same simply complex conclusion...  

[sabre_sword]

Faith of the Fallen was one of my fav's in the series as well. I'd have to re-read them to tell you what my real fav was, but FotF is one that really stands out to me.  

[Phanari]

sabre_sword

Faith of the Fallen was one of my fav's in the series as well. I'd have to re-read them to tell you what my real fav was, but FotF is one that really stands out to me.

I'm still on FotF right now and it seems to be the book where the story actually takes off and stuff.

A lot of my friends have a crush on Nicci too. She's taken though. She falls in love with Richard, it seems.  

[hoboX10]

I just finished Faith of the Fallen today.

I have to say, the plot holes you mention are false.

Kahlan didn't decide to go to the Old World until Nicci was starting to develop real feelings for Richard.

Also, when Nicci tells them that if they follow, she will know, they were talking to each other face to face. They were close to each other, and the place Richard and Nicci were to meet were only a couple miles from the house.

Kahlan was VERY far away from Nicci, and there's no way Nicci could have felt Kahlan coming from that far, with her power that weakened from the link.

Also, Kahlan didn't get to the city until Nicci had decided to break the link, so before she decided that I believe Kahlan was too far away for Nicci to sense.

Kahlan's injuries don't affect Nicci. As it's a "maternity" spell, Nicci is the "mother" in the spell. It's like a one-way street.

Not every soldier in the Order saw or knew Nicci. They mostly recognized her from her attitude. They wouldn't think a run-down, dirty woman like Nicci would have looked like during the book, would be "Death's Mistress" as she was.



Edit: One thing I will note on is that Zedd calls the rule learned in this book the most important. But in the first book he says the first rule "is the most important rule, that's why it's the first". ?_?


Edit 2: And a lot of important things happened in this book. It may only seem like it circles.

For one, they have the heart of the Old World on their side, and everything they did will be told around the entire Old World, and make more people join them.

And now they have Nicci on their side, who can teach Richard about Subtractive Magic.

(Remember I just finished the book today, these are all by the view of someone who hasn't finished)  

[First Wizard Zorander]

hoboX10

Kahlan's injuries don't affect Nicci. As it's a "maternity" spell, Nicci is the "mother" in the spell. It's like a one-way street.

Well phrased, my friend. You make a good point here.

hoboX10

Edit: One thing I will note on is that Zedd calls the rule learned in this book the most important. But in the first book he says the first rule "is the most important rule, that's why it's the first". ?_?

While i still agree with Zedd that the first rule is perhaps the most important, but as Zedd says about the Sixth Rule, its 'the hub upon which all rules turn'. So, in a sense, it 'fuels' or 'governs' the other rules. It makes the First Rule true, so therefore, it can also be viewed as the most important. The key here is perception, which do you view as the most important?  

[hoboX10]

First Wizard Zorander

hoboX10

Edit: One thing I will note on is that Zedd calls the rule learned in this book the most important. But in the first book he says the first rule "is the most important rule, that's why it's the first". ?_?

While i still agree with Zedd that the first rule is perhaps the most important, but as Zedd says about the Sixth Rule, its 'the hub upon which all rules turn'. So, in a sense, it 'fuels' or 'governs' the other rules. It makes the First Rule true, so therefore, it can also be viewed as the most important. The key here is perception, which do you view as the most important?

Well I'm not really trying to argue which is more important. I'm just saying, the only "plot hole" that I can think of is that Zedd himself says the First Rule is the most important, and then calls the Sixth most important.

It would be different if someone other than Zedd said the sixth was the most important, as then it might be a matter of perception.  

[Phanari]

I'm still in FotF...........Kahlan is still in New World fighting the Order..........Warren's alive..........::whipes sweat:: HE CAN'T DIE!!!!!!!!  

[Aquavender]

i just finished faith of the fallen a little while ago and i had been wondering about that too. i think the book is still pretty good though.  

[Aquavender]

First Wizard Zorander

Miki Hikari

Carrie Macabre

I was just reading through Faith of the Fallen for the second time (eh, the habbits of an excelling English student) critically, and I noticed... there are GAPING plot holes in the whole conflict concerning Nicci and Kahlan. When they're linked by the maternity spell.
The most obvious, and biggest, example is when Kahlan goes down into the Old World, and into the same city as Richard, and Nicci doesn't know about it.
O_o
Didn't she say "if you follow, I will know, and you will die", or something along those lines? And she warned Richard many times over that if someone was sent to follow, even at a distance, she would know, and Kahlan would die? O_o I just dont get it. And then she was so CLOSE to Nicci and to be experiencing such emotions... WOULDNT SHE NOTICE?!
By the time Kahlan went to find Richard Nicci was thinking quite differently than she was when she captured Richard. She was questioning everything she ever knew. She was no longer concerned with where Kahlan was, and if she did give it thought it would have probably pleased her to know she could bring this mistake to an end without hurting Richard any more than she had. By this time she was in love with him.

And then there's times where Kahlan gets hurt and exhausted, and it dosent tell on Nicci, and vice versa. >.< it chewed at me the whole way through.

Kahlan lost a bunch of weight, suffered when Nicci gave away the money on the way to the Old World, suffered the brutal encounter with the thug boy, and was often run down and didn’t know why. I believe we got the picture, any more and it would have gotten tedious.

I never got whether Nicci felt Kahlan’s pain, I don’t think she did. I do however believe Nicci would have died if Kahlan offed herself, but we’ll never know I guess.

And there were a few other plot holes as far as I was concerned, with Nicci being so close to the Emporer's palace, and therefore there would BOUND to be military officials there, and if she was "Jagang's favorite" or whatever, the "Queen Slave"... wouldn't the officials/soldiers NOTICE?! Dx

Notice? Notice what? Everyone knew her or knew of her, but that doesn’t mean everyone would instantly recognize her. There weren’t missing scrolls posted all over the old world with her mug painted on them. When she chose to be recognized she had no trouble with the soldiers knowing her and hopping to her every word. Other than that she was just one of the other stinking populace and not one individual counted, so why notice? Why even bother meeting their eyes?

I dunno. It's been one of the more irritating books for me to read through critically. Most pass with almost-ease, but this one bugged me.
And also... NOTHING HAPPENED. The thing went around in a complete circle, and you could have just done WITHOUT the whole journey, I think. It was probably a time killer, for an author's block but... is anyone else troubled/annoyed by this one book?

Nothing Happened?
A woman’s soul was saved. A woman who grew up believing the garbage her mother shoved down her throat for her to spew out at relevant times. A woman who had no respect for life at all learned to care. She learned that being a selfless being was not the blessed life she was indoctrinated into and loving one’s self and having pride in one’s own accomplishments was not the sin she feared it was. Her father is not in the dark with the keeper as her mother taught her he would be. To be with her as she went through these soul shattering changes was not a … how did you put it?… a time killer…I found it a very worth while journey that I’m glad Terry allowed us to go on.

Nothing Happened?
One man changed the lives of a whole community. He showed by example that life was worth putting an effort into. His light touched everyone he came in contact with, even those who resented him. He gave them beauty, beauty they had never seen. He gave them self worth, something they had never known. He gave them ambition, where before they expected everything done for them he taught them to do for themselves.
He taught them to stand up and live their lives, where before they were the living dead.

You
are
awesome.

I was afraid I was one of the few people who loved faith of the fallen.

I love Faith of the Fallen as well.

A lot happened. If nothing else, this book amplified the emphasis Goodkind puts in the ideals he displays through Richard. The concept of no religion, only you as a person and how you should rise up and live your life.

Plus, he eliminates Brother Narev, practically the source and strongest influence of the teachings of the Order itself. Jagang, if no one else, looked up to Narev.

Jagangs to-be-unstoppable palace is destroyed before it could become the capital of a world under jagang's control.

And the conversion of one of Richard's most dangerous enemies becomes his strongest ally -- a sorceress with both Additive and Subtractive magic, one of the rarest people in the world.

And above all else, on of my most favorite and powerful of Wizard's Rules. The Sixth Rule: The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason.

That's what happened in this book.

i liked faith of the fallen too. i don't get why everyone doesn't like it!!!