Abortion?

[Dathu]

[ Message temporarily off-line ]  

[DivideByZero14]

I think any woman should be able to have abortions whenever necessary, and that they choose for themselves when to have a kid. If it weren't for human nature, women wouldn't abuse abortion, and probably wouldn't have gratuitous sex in the first place. Unfortunately, we've human nature, so then people should just have abortions to keep population growth down.

(Interesting fact: the rate of increase of increase of population is decreasing--in other words, the population may have increased 20 million last year, and 24 million the next year, but only 26 million the year after that. See? The rate of increase increased less between the last two years. I saw this an article that was trying to claim that overpopulation was a bunch of bunk. (Somehow, I don't find this fact very reassuring.)  

[PickleBoy]

I'm totally pro-choice.

A lot of people here I noticed brought up the idea that women just randomly get abortions. But um... I really don't think that its like a hobby. I mean maybe if theres an extreme masochist or something but other than that... Theres a lot of thought and extreme amounts of concious guilt afterwards.

Also, Dathu you kept saying that the morning after pill should just be taken after unprotected sex. Well... what if you didn't know that the condom broke? Or what if the guy said he was using protection but didn't? (Cause I'm sure there are times when its hot and sweaty and the lights are out and everyones hands are going every which way and its like "OMG! JEST DO EET!") I mean, you aren't gonna know that you're pregnant until at least five days afterwards (so the quickest tests say). And if you had used protection but it failed... You aren't going to just start popping morning after pills. Especially not with a product with a 90% success rate.

Also, victims of rape are usually raped by someone they know. Its very rarely someone just randomly off the street with a pocket full of roofies. The rape victim doesn't want to come in because yes, they feel it was their fault and they also are afraid (having been threatened) or don't want to get the raper in trouble.

Random facts of fun: Over 40% of women will have been sexually assaulted in their life time. Approx. 10% of men (usually occuring before age 13) will be subjected to sexual abuse. And its less than 10% of the male population that does the raping. (Yes, women rape as well, but its not nearly as common, for a few obvious reasons.) And its predicted that less than half (42% according to rainn.org) are ever actually reported. Scary.

*sniff* I miss my Women's Studies class...

DivideByZero14

I saw this an article that was trying to claim that overpopulation was a bunch of bunk.

Er... Overpopulation a bunch of bunk? I don't think so. When the world reached 7 billion, in my mind thats so overly populated that the air is no longer truly fresh. Its just less stale in some places than in others. 3nodding  

[Dathu]

PickleBoy

Also, Dathu you kept saying that the morning after pill should just be taken after unprotected sex. Well... what if you didn't know that the condom broke? Or what if the guy said he was using protection but didn't? (Cause I'm sure there are times when its hot and sweaty and the lights are out and everyones hands are going every which way and its like "OMG! JEST DO EET!") I mean, you aren't gonna know that you're pregnant until at least five days afterwards (so the quickest tests say). And if you had used protection but it failed... You aren't going to just start popping morning after pills. Especially not with a product with a 90% success rate.

Well, I strongly feel that if you're going to have sex, you should be on birth control and use a condom. With both combined the chance of pregnancy is very very unlikely.

Now, I am a very sexualy active person, and I like to consider myself very passionate when it comes to sex. However, I can always tell when the condom breaks, and I strongly feel any guy who says he didn't notice is lieing (spelling?). He just didn't want to stop. All I know is, if I had sex without a condom, without birth control, got raped, or thought semen got a little to close, and I even thought there would be a snowballs chance in hell that I might get pregnant from it, I would take a day after pill. Hell, I'd keep a bottle of them in my purse. The only way I can think of me needing an abortion is if I was having Rosemary's Baby. I just think that there are a lot of ways to prevent, and that it seems like lazyness or lack of caution and/or preperation is the cause of a lot of the abortionees (is that a word?).

As I said though, I do think women should have a choice. I just think it odd that so many are chosing this solution, insted of a preventative.  

[PickleBoy]

I understand what you're saying but thats a bit extreme. What are the side effects of taking a morning after pill? Are there problems that can occur later on in life from taking it? I'm not saying that you shouldn't take it, I'm just saying those could be probable concerns to taking it after everytime you have sex. Not only that but why is the female the only the responsible party?

And I think a lot of people are choosing this solution because they don't really understand other choices out there.  

[iviary]

PickleBoy

I understand what you're saying but thats a bit extreme. What are the side effects of taking a morning after pill? Are there problems that can occur later on in life from taking it? I'm not saying that you shouldn't take it, I'm just saying those could be probable concerns to taking it after everytime you have sex. Not only that but why is the female the only the responsible party?

And I think a lot of people are choosing this solution because they don't really understand other choices out there.

It's not that the female is the only responsible party, but she's the one responsible for deciding whether to abort. Also, it's her responsibility to get on birth control and use it properly, and {if she has a choice} to say no, if someone attempts to have sex with her without a condom. Also, you wouldn't need to take the morning-after pill after every time you have sex, but only if you think there's any reason birth control/condom might not have functioned correctly.  

[Asterisk07]

I am defanitly pro-choice, pre-abortion is just wierd, people against abortions are either religious or believe that every fetus should have its day...yah  

[Koravin]

Pro-choice, for any reason, but I'm not a fan of 3rd term abortions, but they don't happen often anyway.  

[Teoka]

Personally, I'm pro-life. Believe it or not, there are secular arguments against abortion. One of those being that because death is typically defined as the cessation of brain activity, life would therefore begin when brain activity begins. From what we know, this happens within the first six weeks of pregnancy. Therefore, terminating a pregnancy after brain activity begins in a fetus would be killing a living human.

When it comes to public policy, I think that our laws should reflect those scientific facts. However, there must be exceptions when the mother's life is in danger. Babies conceived from rape are very rare, and aren't going to be horrible people. A famous poet was conceived through his mother's rape.

As for the argument that women will start aborting their own babies if abortion is made illegal is just silly. Sure, it's happened before, and women who have done that need some serious help. I don't know of any women who would honestly try to coat-hanger a fetus out of them if they couldn't get an abortion.

On a related note, I think that birth control and morning-after pills are spiffy 3nodding  

[Levis Pennae]

I'm pro-choice, to a limit. If the fetus is not capable of living outside the womb then it can be aborted, but if the fetus is capable of living outside of the womb you would just be retarding the child.  

[Koravin]

Teoka

Personally, I'm pro-life. Believe it or not, there are secular arguments against abortion. One of those being that because death is typically defined as the cessation of brain activity, life would therefore begin when brain activity begins. From what we know, this happens within the first six weeks of pregnancy. Therefore, terminating a pregnancy after brain activity begins in a fetus would be killing a living human.

When it comes to public policy, I think that our laws should reflect those scientific facts. However, there must be exceptions when the mother's life is in danger. Babies conceived from rape are very rare, and aren't going to be horrible people. A famous poet was conceived through his mother's rape.

As for the argument that women will start aborting their own babies if abortion is made illegal is just silly. Sure, it's happened before, and women who have done that need some serious help. I don't know of any women who would honestly try to coat-hanger a fetus out of them if they couldn't get an abortion.

On a related note, I think that birth control and morning-after pills are spiffy 3nodding

It's not a silly argument, it's a documented fact. Abortion has occurred since the beginning of humanity. People will drink themselves into aborting, throw themselves down stairs, get into fights, and yes, even the fabled coat hanger. Abortion will happen, regardless of its legality, but with it legal, they will be much safer.  

[Teoka]

Koravin

Teoka

Personally, I'm pro-life. Believe it or not, there are secular arguments against abortion. One of those being that because death is typically defined as the cessation of brain activity, life would therefore begin when brain activity begins. From what we know, this happens within the first six weeks of pregnancy. Therefore, terminating a pregnancy after brain activity begins in a fetus would be killing a living human.

When it comes to public policy, I think that our laws should reflect those scientific facts. However, there must be exceptions when the mother's life is in danger. Babies conceived from rape are very rare, and aren't going to be horrible people. A famous poet was conceived through his mother's rape.

As for the argument that women will start aborting their own babies if abortion is made illegal is just silly. Sure, it's happened before, and women who have done that need some serious help. I don't know of any women who would honestly try to coat-hanger a fetus out of them if they couldn't get an abortion.

On a related note, I think that birth control and morning-after pills are spiffy 3nodding

It's not a silly argument, it's a documented fact. Abortion has occurred since the beginning of humanity. People will drink themselves into aborting, throw themselves down stairs, get into fights, and yes, even the fabled coat hanger. Abortion will happen, regardless of its legality, but with it legal, they will be much safer.

Yes, women have done it. And those women need mental help. Anyone willing to get themselves killed just to abort a fetus inside of them is not in the right state of mind. We cannot base public policy on the mistakes of the few.  

[Koravin]

Teoka

Koravin

Teoka

Personally, I'm pro-life. Believe it or not, there are secular arguments against abortion. One of those being that because death is typically defined as the cessation of brain activity, life would therefore begin when brain activity begins. From what we know, this happens within the first six weeks of pregnancy. Therefore, terminating a pregnancy after brain activity begins in a fetus would be killing a living human.

When it comes to public policy, I think that our laws should reflect those scientific facts. However, there must be exceptions when the mother's life is in danger. Babies conceived from rape are very rare, and aren't going to be horrible people. A famous poet was conceived through his mother's rape.

As for the argument that women will start aborting their own babies if abortion is made illegal is just silly. Sure, it's happened before, and women who have done that need some serious help. I don't know of any women who would honestly try to coat-hanger a fetus out of them if they couldn't get an abortion.

On a related note, I think that birth control and morning-after pills are spiffy 3nodding

It's not a silly argument, it's a documented fact. Abortion has occurred since the beginning of humanity. People will drink themselves into aborting, throw themselves down stairs, get into fights, and yes, even the fabled coat hanger. Abortion will happen, regardless of its legality, but with it legal, they will be much safer.

Yes, women have done it. And those women need mental help. Anyone willing to get themselves killed just to abort a fetus inside of them is not in the right state of mind. We cannot base public policy on the mistakes of the few.

They're not a few. It's thousands, perhaps tens of thousands. It's not insanity to want an abortion. It's desperation that leads some people to these lengths. Because our society is so messed up, we don't talk about this stuff in the open. Many women feel their only choice is to do these things in secret.

But that's not even the point. The point is that a person has the right to determine what goes on in their own body.  

[WritelySo]

Abortion should be available to all women, free of charge, legal, unlimited, with no (non-medical) questions asked. I trust women to make the right choice for themselves and their situation, and since it is their body the decision is being made about, it's their choice. If the embryo cannot live on its own outside of the woman's body, then it is not a person. A fetus is no more entitled to access to a woman's body than anyone else is. The alternative to free and legal abortion is back-alley abortion or forced pregnancy, which is utterly barbaric. A fetus is not a baby. A viable embryo is not a baby. More than 80% of viable embryos are flushed out of a woman's body without her knowing it.  

[Boxed_Jam]

I lurk them a lot, too.
I like the idea of leaving abortion up to the choice of the individual.
I'm actually thinking about a career in performing abortions.
I dunno...I guess I really crave controversy.
Also, moral or immoral, we need abortionists.
Sometimes an abortion may save a mother's life or help a victim of rape, etc (I'm sure you've heard this all before).
It's either that or a career neurosurgery for me ^^.