|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:58 am
 |
|
|
 |
Redem SaintChaos Redem SaintChaos Redem SaintChaos just because they get away with it on earth doesnt mean they wont get away with it later. the bible says we are ALL held accountable for our sins and the punishment for them is unknown. but no bad deed will go unnoticed. God will deal with it in his own way. So, whether he exists or not, the result is the same. What is the point of him, then? Why worship him? Why believe in him? heh, let me answer your question with a question of my own.....why shouldnt i? i have my own personal reasons for following and worshiping him, neither of which has physical evidence to show since it IS purely of faith and neither is good enough for anyone here to want to believe anyway. and if i were to give you reasons to follow him you wouldnt anyway because you dont believe in him right? so i leave the subject matter to just personal opinions and unstated. Because it is seemingly pointless to do so. If the results of god existing and not existing are the same, then god is entirely superfluous. Especially as an explanation for something. but thats the thing, the results are not the same. had it not been for god, the earth wouldn't even be existing right now. neither would the starts or universe itself. logically speaking no there is no proof of this, but that is what i believe. and there are many other reasons i worship my deity. As do the adherents of all other religions, there has not been demonstrated a need for a deity in any of that. Even should that part be true, the rest is still unneeded. Heaven, hell, a personal deity, prayer, worship, churches, the anachronistic "morals" of the bible, the idea of religious leaders... what is the need for any of these, even if we assume that there was a creator? And what makes your religion any different to all of the rest of them? Especially if you are one of those who follow christian mythology along with the rest of the religion.
heh, i don't care to compare my religion to others. i know other religions worship deities, but i think the point i should say is that, id rather believe in something than nothing at all.
to use another example, to go along with my belief in demons, if demons exist then who's keep a tab on their control? if they truly had no restraint to what they could do they would get away with a lot more than they do now. there has to be some higher power that keeps them from devouring everything cuz satan DOES "walk about the earth like a devouring lion" waiting to prey upon the weak.
so theres another reason why i believe in god. but even if there i no proof for any religion really, i think people still "need" a religion, something to believe in, to set their morals and or faith in something. its a comfort that probably helps keep their sanity for the most part. to believe there is something beyond just simple earth living, to believe that there is a paradise waiting for them as a reward for their toil on earth or whatever reason you want to think of.
but regardless of what your can prove or disprove the bible, it still holds very many practical and legitimate teachings which are most of what we teach today to our younger generations. for instance:
the golden rule
no stealing
law against murder
peace over war
etc etc. |
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:29 am
|
|
|
|
Semper Fiasco What I meant to say is that if your "everything happens for a reason" argument is correct, then everything that only seems evil is happening for a greater good. Of course, this means that morality is out the window, because even when we're out doing "evil" things, we're fulfilling that greater good.
well...*sighs* again im only making this from a personal belief. but even i find flaws in such a belief. even the bible warns to "not lean on my own understanding" cuz i cant see things the way god does. his knowledge (in christian logic) exceeds everything we could imagine possible. what seems difficult to me is probably 1st grade math to god. sorry if thats a crappy example lol. maybe everything has a reason maybe it doesnt. or maybe it just depends on what it is. but as they say, theres place for everything, and everything in its place. and theres a chapter in a book of the bible thats an entire chapter stating verses that only say things such as:
a time for war and a time for peace
a time to heal and a time to...etc etc
dont know what else to really tell you that would be acceptable except that this is i think more leaning on my own personal opinion.
Semper Fiasco Great. So how does one go about deciding on the reason? Or is it completely up to the Christians to figure out what's part of God's will and what isn't?
thats actually what they're NOT supposed to do. what christians seem to do all the time, even myself, is wondering what is from god and what is not. most also make the mistake that "what they reep they sow" or "eye for an eye" which is actually a false teaching and comes from the book of Job. that book has to be CAREFULLY read or people are going to get some wrong ideas.
the fact of the matter is, we will never truly know what comes from god and what doesn't, regarding....i guess current events for lack of better words. they also make the mistake of blaming ALL their problems on god because i guess its easier to blame then to think of "why" this or that happened.
to go about every day trying to figure out what is and what isnt caused by god is truly a fool's errand.
so to answer the first part of your question, there ISN'T a way to tell or to decide on the reason. even if we think we know the answer, we might be wrong.
Semper Fiasco But I feel that what you're really saying rests more along the assumption that God uses suffering to build our moral responsibility. If that's not what you meant, then please tell me before we get off on the wrong tangent, but for now, I'll argue that point.
to refer to my statement above, since we can't truly know what comes from god and what doesn't, suffering could be the cause of many things that are earth bound. as i said, maybe theres a reason for it maybe there isn't. but there is always the fact that god "allows" these things to happen and he knows full well of things that will happen before they take place. ive read verses in the bible that come close to why he allows such things, but it leaves you with a vague type of reasoning.
so either way even Christians are almost left in the dark, but not entirely. something things will just go unexplained until we get to heaven. and there are verses that DO state that once there, we will receive the same knowledge and understanding that god has himself and everything will become clear.
and from personal opinion, im willing to accept that as it is. i know i can't possibly see things the way he does so i try to not be as judging. but my life is a good enough example right now to i guess, back up my reasons for not hating god for bad things in my life or questioning why he does things the way he does.
i guess everything just boils down to personal opinion in the end. some things can be backed up easily with biblical verses regarding god, but some of the other things are left unanswered.
Semper Fiasco If suffering is indeed God's way of improving our moral responsibility, then consider this situation. Imagine that we lived in a world in which people in Africa were not starving as they are today. Now suppose that the mortality rate in Africa is not high enough to constitute a great sense of moral responsibility in other regions of the world. Would God be morally justified in taking away their food resource? Or maybe killing Africans outright? Who knows; it could be happening right now, because you can never tell how high the MRR (Moral Responsibility Rate) is at any given time. Doesn't that sound silly? Of course it does. If someone sees a chance to create moral responsibility, they probably shouldn't do so. Case in point: hospitals and fire stations. [sarcasm]Can't expect 'em to step in all the time, can we?[/sarcasm]
let me start out by saying, suffering, from my understanding of it, goes beyond just moral responsibility. it shapes who we are for the most part. it teaches us and helps us to survive for more difficult situations. suffering can come at different levels obviously. it doesnt always come to us in full strength. it could be something as simple as learning why you should touch a candle cuz well, you'll get burned. again...stating the obvious here though. I haven't fully researched before as to why Africa is in the state they're in ,but maybe its just as something as saying that have a sucky economy. or they don't have the right type of leader. or their land isnt resourceful enough. suffering comes for many different reasons. so maybe its coming from god, but most likely not. the world is the way it is because thats how mankind made it.
and in response to your sarcastic statement, what you say is actually true. of course they can't step in all the time. we aren't some all powerful being, we can't "save" everyone. thats why i try to keep the attitude that, perfection is an oxymoron, and you can't expect to be saved all the time, then life would be to easy. and then what would we learn? at least thats how i look at things. and i don't expect god to do everything for me, i have a part in my own life choices too.
Semper Fiasco Okay. And what at all does this have to do with God?
Semper Fiasco True. But why so much suffering? Why do some people endure more pain and hardship than others? Do they somehow require more "experience" and "growth" than the rest of us? Some unfortunate souls go through much more than should be required to build a little character. For example, what could a burning baby have to learn from being utterly immolated? What of the children in Cambodia who go unexpectedly frolicking through mine fields? Or the Jews involved in the Holocaust, as you mentioned?
what do you mean more pain and hardship than others? If the suffering, whether it'd be physical or emotional, is enough to push you to as much as you can handle, to you're mental constraints, then I think we all suffer equally. Some can handle more than others, some can handle less than othres. But when it boils right down to it, I think we each suffer equally, each with our own hell. There is no "I suffer more than you..." No...I think its equal, just equal at the same levels but in different ways.
It's been proven scientifically that suffering is a completely individualistic thing and it all depends on your threshold of pain and how much pain you are experiencing. Really, I believe that all pain is unwanted, so nobody truly suffers "more" than any other, because it is just a feeling that is unwanted.
children frolicking in the field? its the fault of the people that put the mines there in the first place. and its the parents fault for letting their kids frolic in a mine field.
Semper Fiasco As for my "all in all"... if any being with the power to lessen the amount of suffering in the world decides instead to keep it to himself, then we cannot reasonably call that being "good." If you're correct, and there is a divine purpose for everything, then we exist merely to fulfill the sadistic desires of a celestial Orwell.
*shrugs* if thats what you want to believe
Semper Fiasco Besides, I'm not one to pretend that my purpose can be decided for me. To suggest that humanity should live according to a predetermined purpose is no less dehumanizing than suggesting that we all abandon our wills and become machines - lifeless automatons maintained to accomplish a certain goal - without quarrel or question.
not everything is predetermined, its just fore"known"
Semper Fiasco If there's any purpose to life at all, it's simply to keep moving on without being distracted by those who want to sell you their purpose. Just live - and don't die.
heh, the purpose of life? the purpose of life has been debated since the dawn of mankind. even with my religion and deity, i still cant come up with an answer to that one. |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
